[jperl]

Originally Posted by brownsfan019 »

I understand you can look at pivots, previous days stuff, WRBs, etc. etc. but then you end up with a chart cluttered with lines. Of course one of those lines will prove to be the best exit but odds are you will have one hit if there are lines everywhere.

It's interesting brownsfan that you mention this problem about charts cluttered with lines. I use VWAP bands from yesterday, 1 week, 1 month and 1 year as pivot lines on my charts. Sometimes the lines are far apart, sometimes they cluster, sometimes they are all close together. I've discovered that when they are close together, it usually means that the trading day will have a narrow range, and I probably want to stay away. If they are far apart, it means we will have a very active day with high volatility. I particularly like days when they cluster, those are usually good bounce points for reversal trades.
Seems like the pattern of pivots give you a good idea what the day will be like.
JERRY

[brownsfan019]

Originally Posted by jperl »

It's interesting brownsfan that you mention this problem about charts cluttered with lines. I use VWAP bands from yesterday, 1 week, 1 month and 1 year as pivot lines on my charts. Sometimes the lines are far apart, sometimes they cluster, sometimes they are all close together. I've discovered that when they are close together, it usually means that the trading day will have a narrow range, and I probably want to stay away. If they are far apart, it means we will have a very active day with high volatility. I particularly like days when they cluster, those are usually good bounce points for reversal trades.
Seems like the pattern of pivots give you a good idea what the day will be like.
JERRY

Jerry,
I don't know much about VWAP, so can't speak there. You bring up some interesting points however in connection with range days and I'm sure many would welcome a new thread on this subject for all of us to learn more. I've often thought of knowing when a range day is likely vs. a volatile day as the holy grail to be honest. If you want to share, get a discussion going and we can all benefit!

[walterw]

Originally Posted by jperl »

It's interesting brownsfan that you mention this problem about charts cluttered with lines. I use VWAP bands from yesterday, 1 week, 1 month and 1 year as pivot lines on my charts. Sometimes the lines are far apart, sometimes they cluster, sometimes they are all close together. I've discovered that when they are close together, it usually means that the trading day will have a narrow range, and I probably want to stay away. If they are far apart, it means we will have a very active day with high volatility. I particularly like days when they cluster, those are usually good bounce points for reversal trades.
Seems like the pattern of pivots give you a good idea what the day will be like.
JERRY

Yes Jerry, I encourage you to start a thread on your techniques ¡¡ it will be very usefull for you and for us... cheers Walter.

and remind you to use lots of graphic visual aid...

[wrbtrader]

Originally Posted by brownsfan019 »

...I also like Mark the idea of mapping a trade out prior to entering it, but to be honest - that does not work too well for me either. I do that on stock swing trades, but with intraday futures trading, it's a little harder to do on the fly for me. I understand you can look at pivots, previous days stuff, WRBs, etc. etc. but then you end up with a chart cluttered with lines. Of course one of those lines will prove to be the best exit but odds are you will have one hit if there are lines everywhere...

Hi brownsfan019,

I think you misunderstood my post or thought I said something.

I do not draw lines on my charts...not one single line during trading.

However, I do draw one key WRB s/r zone on my chart after the fact when someone ask for a chart example to show the WRB s/r zone I was talking about.

Thus, during actual trading, the only thing on my charts are price itself and sometimes I have volume on my chart because I chat in realtime with some traders that heavily do volume analysis.

Therefore, I have volume on my charts so that I can see and understand what they are talking about even though volume analysis is not part of my trade decisions.

Therefore, there are "no annotations" on my charts during trading.

My point, mapping out my trades prior to entry is the reason why things are simple and simple to me is defined by being able to adapt to changing market conditions along with having to view as few info as possible that allows me to trade in a mechanical like reaction.

However, I do keep in my head (my thoughts) of one key WRB s/r zone along with the reason why it is the only one I need to know about.

Than after the trading day has complete and when I'm updating my trade journal...that's when I annotate my charts due to the fact I want to see what I was thinking about for any particular trading day in the past.

Mark
(a.k.a. NihabaAshi) Japanese Candlestick term

[BlowFish]

Originally Posted by brownsfan019 »

I should stress that trending days are where I can easily make the bulk of my income.

Now, before you ask what's the problem then, the problem is really a matter of 'settling' for approx 2 ES pts per trade and re-entering during trend moves or trying to get that 10+ trade. That's more of a mental thing than anything else, but my hope was that visual WRB's might aid in that struggle.

Can easily or do easily? Its easy to see how you could with hindsight. What does your trading plan say? I suspect from how you have been talking you are winging it (deviating from your plan). Is it a "mental thing" or more of a "change my plan half way through type thing"? You will want a set of rules for each type of trade.

And you know for those 10 point trades trailing a 2 point stop isn't going to catch all of them (it may get one once in a while). Quite a few will go +2 3 4 or even more before coming back to close to your initial entry to re-test supply/demand then they'll take off. Others will go half way and then correct before the final 'leg'. Are you going to sit through all those?

Most people would be delighted with catching a few 2 or 3 pointers each week most would be delighted catching a 10 pointer each week. With proper use of capital you could pretty much take what you wanted from the markets.

Another 'btw' - on days like last Thursday (from memory) going for those 2-3 pointers (if the S&P was anything like the Russel or DAX) generated way way more than 10 points.

I can see a lot of your hard work been wasted which would be a shame. Again I speak from bitter experience, I have wasted so so much time and energy only to end up 6 months later right where I started again when plan B turned out not to be the holy grail.

[brownsfan019]

Fish - I wouldn't say that the entire plan was changed per say, I was testing a different exit strategy. As mentioned previously, entries and stops have never been adjusted during this trial. In pursuit of a better exit strategy I basically came to the conclusion that taking +2 over and over again throughout the day is much easier for me vs. taking one and hopefully letting it run or being able to do so.

With the way that I enter and then taking +2 and looking for a reason to re-enter, you are correct when you get volatile days but not necessarily trending - you can get trades to take over and over and over...

I suppose we can debate all day on the best exit strategy(ies), but in the end, I think it comes down to each trader's comfort level. Some guys can take 1 or 2 trades and let them run all day to see what happens. I personally like 5+ trades a day taking smaller chunks. It's easier on me mentally and keeps me active throughout the day.

[BlowFish]

Originally Posted by brownsfan019 »

I suppose we can debate all day on the best exit strategy(ies), but in the end, I think it comes down to each trader's comfort level. Some guys can take 1 or 2 trades and let them run all day to see what happens. I personally like 5+ trades a day taking smaller chunks. It's easier on me mentally and keeps me active throughout the day.

There's your answer. Just forget those 10 pointers. Or at least trade them with a separate version of the plan. i think Ninja allows 2 completely seperate strategies from the same entry.

Then I guess those 2-3 day straight up moves will start looking appealing eh?

[brownsfan019]

Originally Posted by BlowFish »

There's your answer. Just forget those 10 pointers. Or at least trade them with a separate version of the plan. i think Ninja allows 2 completely seperate strategies from the same entry.

Then I guess those 2-3 day straight up moves will start looking appealing eh?

You got it!

I figured out that taking +2 and -1.5 on stops, I can have a 40% win rate (approx) and make money. Now, I'm not shooting for a 40% win rate, but it helps to break it down like that. If I can bat 60-75%, should be good in the long run by just simply taking out the position at +2.

I know, keep it simple, right? :p