[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by coyotte »

Browsed this thread , but haven't come across this query.

Have read "Master the Markets" but is TradeGuider worth the loot ?.
seems to me just eyeballing will do the same job

In a word, NO.

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by BlowFish »

PP my question is about 2. Does it really add anything that is not in the book? I have no issue splurging $500 but to be honest the book (especially the MM one over the paper one) seems pretty much complete from a point of view of analysis.

What does the boot camp have that the book dosen't? Does it talk about actual trading (as oposed to analysis)? One nuance or subtlty learn't makes it worthwhile but I am a bit sceptical.

Without being disrespectful not sure about 4. Seems mainly a mechanism to sell the software.I understand that Todd was a trader but Gavin was an entrepeneur (outside the business) that bought into Tradeguider with a view to marketing it better. Again without being disrespectful it shows in his presentations.

Repeating 5 seems the most value (with a re read of 1 now and then).

Cheers.

Todd recently called the webinars by Gavin "Sales Presentations" and his webinars to customers "Educational learning.."". I think that says it all. And is one of my primary reasons for being so disappointed with TG.

There was a time when a person could learn a lot of information from the free webinars held by Todd. Which was also the reason, so many software customers would attend. Now, however, Gavin is trying to hock software to the masses. He talks the "talk" about trading from price and volume and the perils of indicator trading, then proceeds to use indicators himself ( trading systems are indicators). He waits for the VSA signs and bars to change color before making trades. Simply, that is not reading a chart.

TG is a software product. But there is a viable method to reading the charts at its core. This method, Volume Spread Analysis, is all worth using and need not be tied up with the product itself.

As for the bootcamp, see above. Todd, one of the world's recognized leaders in VSA and Tom Williams, the creator of VSA, made the bootcamp. Could there be a better source to gleam some nuances? It brings some of the concepts of the book to life.

[BlowFish]

Originally Posted by PivotProfiler »

As for the bootcamp, see above. Todd, one of the world's recognized leaders in VSA and Tom Williams, the creator of VSA, made the bootcamp. Could there be a better source to gleam some nuances? It brings some of the concepts of the book to life.

Well I guess I am sold then I am also considering Joel's course. One of the reasons for my reticence is that my 'technical' skills are more than adequate to extract money from the markets. My problems are clearly 'emotional/psych'. In the past I have buried myself in bettering my technicals and deceived myself that I am trying to improve my trading.

I guess its like the CEO of a business putting all its resources into R&D when they need to improve there operations.

Could you expand a little where the boot camp goes that the book dosen't?

Cheers,
Nick.

[flatwallet]

Pivot...You Tina and Soul need to come out with a boot camp of your own. However, please do not price it at $500

Have any of you seen the boot camp videos and do you see it being worth while. It been a tough process for me to chage from current thinking to VSA thinking. I have incorporated the high volume and looking for stocks at the bottom of trends. However, the no demand, test and few other concepts elude me in real world practice. When I read the book, a light bulb constantly flashes over my head but once I put the book down, I feel the room getting darker and I start feeling lost. Are there any sources that don't rquire big bucks to start learning this stuff in more detail.

Thanks

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by flatwallet »

..... It been a tough process for me to chage from current thinking to VSA thinking. I have incorporated the high volume and looking for stocks at the bottom of trends. However, the no demand, test and few other concepts elude me in real world practice....

Hi Flatwallet. Thanks for the kind words. Keep reading the book.

I just wanted to show something that might help.

Originally, I was going to post this pic in the WRB thread and make the following point.

Not all WRBs are created equal. While there may be many factors in what constitutes a significant WRB, the three main are:

* Size in relation to other WRBs
* Amount of volume
* If the WRB is the result of some news related event

NihabaAshi is the true WRB expert and may be able to enlighten us as to some of the more reasons that determine a WRB's significant.

As I know you are looking at VSA, don't let what I just said about WRBs confuse you. There are three factors that constitute significant bars in VSA as well:

* Size in relation to other wide spread bars
* Amount of volume
* If the wide spread bar is the result of some news related event

Now in the chart below we see numerous WRBs or wide to Ultra wide spread bars. However, they are all not equal.

Let's just focus on the very first one on the left hand side of the chart. We see an Ultra Wide Spread bar with Ultra High Volume that closes up from the previous bar. VSA teaches us that markets do not like Ultra Wide Spread or Wide Spread bars on high or Ultra high volume. Because they could hide selling (supply) within them. Although some times they are indeed strength. Which by the way, much time is spent on in the bootcamp. Because many people after hearing weakness (supply) comes in on up bars automatically assume all up bars are weak.

We know this bar had some selling (supply) once we see that the next bar is down. If all that volume was buying (demand) then the next bar could not be down.

What we often see next, if the market is strong, is either a No Supply or Test for supply bar. Here we see a test. This is a low volume test. Note that volume is less than the previous two bars. Note that the test makes a lower low than the previous bar and closes on its high. It hard for me to separate some things, so I must point out that this test bar is in body of the WRB. But from a pure VSA point, note that the test is within the range of the Ultra Wide Spread bar. SIMPLY, A LOW VOLUME SIGNAL WITHIN THE RANGE OF A PRVIOUSLY HIGH VOLUME BAR.

Many concepts in VSA are logical. Here we see some supply enter the market. The next thing we see is a test of supply. The Professional want to take prices up, but are making sure that the supply is out of the market. If there were sellers underneath, then there would be more volume. And if a large amount of supply had entered (more than the demand present) then price would go down on more volume.

The key(s) here are that the 'test' comes immediately after we see supply enter the market showing us market strength. Or, simply put, location and background information. An aggressive trader might enter once the test is "proven" on the next bar that closes higher than the close of the test. Shown here. The reason for the question mark is that not everyone would enter at this point. Some use multiple timeframes, some use price action patterns, and some even use indicators ( ).

To be sure, the market did indeed move up and a quick profit could have been made. In fact, one could still be long as of this pic and in profit using only one timeframe and that repeatable and reliable pattern.

Once you witness Ultra Wide or Wide Spread bars on High or Ultra High Volume, you want to then start looking for bars with low volume. This is where you find no supply, no demand, and some test bars. Sometimes there will be high volume tests or Upthrusts on high volume. An Upthrust is kind of like a high volume test but showing weakness rather than strength. That is, a high volume test will close on or near its high and an Upthrust closes on or near its low. Ideally a high volume test will make a lower low while the Upthrust will make a higher high.

There is a lot more here, but it is enough to say that every No Supply or No Selling Pressure sign in this pic is within the range of a significant Wide or Ultra Wide Spread bar. More precisely, within the body of a significant WRB.

[flatwallet]

Well I understand it a lot more clearly now. Thank you for that.

[mroalan]

yes excellent stuff pivot, i also find the WRBS easy enough to understand its the follow through that takes time,but like all things just keep looking and your charts which i have printed out and added my notes,or as the case, "your notes".as for $500 that would look remarkedly cheap from where i,m sat! and as you can see this thread is hit a lot,if i knew where you lived i,d come round and sit outside your door untill you let me in. only joking.

[Anonymous]

Narrow Spreads & High Volume (Squat):

" This is very simple to see. The public and others have rushed into the market, buying before they miss further price rises. The Professional Money has taken the opportunity to sell to them. This action will be reflected on your chart as a narrow spread with high volume on an up-day. If the bar closes on the high, this is an even weaker signal.........." Tom Williams, Master the Markets, P. 77.

Just wanted to show something a bit different.

A few caveats:

* As previously mentioned, Not a good idea to enter trades after 1300 and certainly not after 1400.

* The above is even more so the case on a Friday.

What I wanted to show here was the narrow range bar on high to Ultra high volume. Of course, this is the type of bar where WRB & Long Shadow Analysis skips over. VSA, however, does not.

Again, the over-arching concept remains the same. We would be looking to see some type of entry signal within the body of a significant WRB or Long Shadow. What happens here is after an effort to rise we see a No Demand bar. This bar closes on its high and has volume less than the previous two bars. The very next bar has a narrow range, closes on its high and has greater volume than the previous bar. THIS IS A SQUAT. The above quote tells us the importance of the close on the high with this type of narrow range high volume bar: Weakness.

So if we step back, we have just seen a No Demand bar. Which tells us the Smart Money is not yet interested in higher prices. The next bar we see has a compressed range on higher volume that closes on its high and closes equal to the previous bar.

"..So by simple observation of the spread of the bar, we can read the sentiment of the market-makers, the opinion of those who can see both sides of the market.", Master the Markets, P.28.

Some may note the No Demand signal a few bars earlier. This would be a good place to short if we were not in a naturally low volume period. More over, the reason this short could be considered is because of the Ultra High Volume seen as an effort to rise. Then the following No Demand/Squat sequence. Simply, volume as a whole increased during this time so while the time of day remains a reason not to enter, the lack of volume doesn't.

What is important here though is the idea of the narrow range bar (narrower than the previous bar) on high volume, which is higher than the previous bar. In other words, the squat; Bill Williams' term, not VSA's term.