[Enigmatics]

I've put so much work into this over the last 10 months trading and the 1.5 years before that charting/absorbing as much info as I could. I have a set up that I'm absolutely STUNNED I haven't broken out with. Instead I'm currently mired in the mental struggles of trading from a dwindling account. Over the past 2 months I have routinely let perfectly viable plays go right by me because I'm being too cautious, even scaling back my normal position sizes in the process.

..... And then today I get the text message from a buddy of mine. He scored $20,000 on a penny stock (CMEY). This is a guy who doesn't chart. He swears by "researching" these often fictitious companies who do nothing but sell shares on the backs of grandiose stories or align themselves with promoters. He knows I'm struggling right now and insisted I "get into" this stock with him. I couldn't believe I was even having the conversation. Throw away all that I learned to jump into a penny stock? "Just trust me man, it's going to .10, this is months and months worth of research!" he said.

I'm just beside myself right now. I really am.

[Tradewinds]

You are on the normal journey. If you were not going through this, something would be wrong. I would be amazed and absolutely stunned, if I heard of a trader who hadn't experienced what you are experiencing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to encourage you to keep trading, . . . . and I'm not trying to discourage you. I really don't like it when people encourage other traders to just keep on going. Maybe you should, maybe you shouldn't. I really don't know.

Do you have a very, very well defined exit signal? We all spend time trying to find good entries, but then we need to learn how to manage the trade. You must have an ABSOLUTE EXIT POINT. Where you WILL EXIT! Period. No thinking. You know what to do, and YOU DO IT. No worry, no fear, just execute, and know that it's the right decision. If you are not at that point, then there is no point in trading live.

If a trade is entered, and then there is doubt about what to do after that, then you can not mange the trade well. You need very well defined profit signals. Note that I didn't state profit "target". I don't have profit targets. Whatever the market gives me, I take it. Period. You need profit taking signals, and signals that the trade is not doing what you thought it was going to do. (Note that I didn't state: Stop Losses. I don't have stop losses. If the trade isn't doing what I thought it would do, I exit. Period. Some people would call that a mental stop loss.) You must have signals and rules for those two situations. If you don't have signals and rules for those two situations, then you have no idea what to do after you have entered the trade. Hope, pray, sweat, swear, groan, fist pump when you make a profit, etc. If your reaction to a loss is anything more than just understanding that it's a cold, calculated decision, then there might not be real trust in the strategy.

[Enigmatics]

Originally Posted by Tradewinds »

You are on the normal journey. If you were not going through this, something would be wrong. I would be amazed and absolutely stunned, if I heard of a trader who hadn't experienced what you are experiencing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to encourage you to keep trading, . . . . and I'm not trying to discourage you. I really don't like it when people encourage other traders to just keep on going. Maybe you should, maybe you shouldn't. I really don't know.

Do you have a very, very well defined exit signal? We all spend time trying to find good entries, but then we need to learn how to manage the trade. You must have an ABSOLUTE EXIT POINT. Where you WILL EXIT! Period. No thinking. You know what to do, and YOU DO IT. No worry, no fear, just execute, and know that it's the right decision. If you are not at that point, then there is no point in trading live.

If a trade is entered, and then there is doubt about what to do after that, then you can not mange the trade well. You need very well defined profit signals. Note that I didn't state profit "target". I don't have profit targets. Whatever the market gives me, I take it. Period. You need profit taking signals, and signals that the trade is not doing what you thought it was going to do. (Note that I didn't state: Stop Losses. I don't have stop losses. If the trade isn't doing what I thought it would do, I exit. Period. Some people would call that a mental stop loss.) You must have signals and rules for those two situations. If you don't have signals and rules for those two situations, then you have no idea what to do after you have entered the trade. Hope, pray, sweat, swear, groan, fist pump when you make a profit, etc. If your reaction to a loss is anything more than just understanding that it's a cold, calculated decision, then there might not be real trust in the strategy.

I'm primarily using volume spread analysis. I was formerly an "indicator" based trader, but after reading the variations between Richard Wykoff and Tom Williams, I saw the market in a whole new light. It helped to explain why my pattern worked in one instance, but not another. Leading up into April I was really narrowing down the ones I went for well. Then it started happening ..... I was finding that I was constantly exiting trades too early. My little 2-4% were nothing compared to what I was seeing. So I started trying to hold out for more in the trades I was in.

Ever since then it's become this battle of either holding too long because of previously missed opportunities, not holding long enough, or just passing up a perfectly viability trade because I'm being overly cautious. I had always had exit strategies, typically using price/volume and moving averages I know to be resistances. I've also been incorporating price by volume bars.

The month of April should've been the big move for me. Instead I nibbled at small percentages and missed some really large moves. I've found myself hesitant to go long over multiple days on stocks because my account hasn't been able to absorb the risk.

Yada yada yada .... Like I said, it's frustrating.

[Tams]

Originally Posted by Enigmatics »

I've put so much work into this over the last 10 months trading and the 1.5 years before that charting/absorbing as much info as I could. I have a set up that I'm absolutely STUNNED I haven't broken out with. Instead I'm currently mired in the mental struggles of trading from a dwindling account. Over the past 2 months I have routinely let perfectly viable plays go right by me because I'm being too cautious, even scaling back my normal position sizes in the process.

..... And then today I get the text message from a buddy of mine. He scored $20,000 on a penny stock (CMEY). This is a guy who doesn't chart. He swears by "researching" these often fictitious companies who do nothing but sell shares on the backs of grandiose stories or align themselves with promoters. He knows I'm struggling right now and insisted I "get into" this stock with him. I couldn't believe I was even having the conversation. Throw away all that I learned to jump into a penny stock? "Just trust me man, it's going to .10, this is months and months worth of research!" he said.

I'm just beside myself right now. I really am.

if you feel bad, inferior, depressed, because someone scored on a penny stock,
you deserve to feel bad, inferior, and depressed.

Penny stocks are highly manipulated, if you don't know that, you will learn one way or the other.

[Enigmatics]

Originally Posted by Tams »

if you feel bad, inferior, depressed, because someone scored on a penny stock,
you deserve to feel bad, inferior, and depressed.

No, just aggravated by it. Like I said, I've put in a lot of time and effort.

[zdo]

First, have you read Rande Howell’s book? If you don’t come to more awareness of 1 how your fears are ‘organized’ (for lack of a better term) and 2 how your ‘self image’ (another for lack of a better term) is regulating your performance – both outside of your awareness – it really doesn’t matter how much you believe in your edge (or not)

re” “just passing up a perfectly viable trade because I'm being overly cautious”
Paraphrasing Mark Douglas --- Outside awareness again, every ‘red’ (or potential ‘in the red’) can re stimulate any and every uncleared defeat, defect, desertion, deprivation you’ve ever experienced (or even imagined ‘correctly’)
Without a healthy you, your time and effort is 'nothing', your edge is 'nothing'.

re: “Ever since then it's become this battle of either holding too long because of previously missed opportunities, not holding long enough, or just passing up a perfectly viability trade because I'm being overly cautious.”
Finally something more practical - For every edge, there is a distribution of results. For every distribution of results, there is an adequate scaling (out - in this case) schema

I sincerely hope I have frustrated you even more … just right

[Tams]

Originally Posted by Tams »

if you feel bad, inferior, depressed, because someone scored on a penny stock,
you deserve to feel bad, inferior, and depressed.

Penny stocks are highly manipulated, if you don't know that, you will learn one way or the other.

Originally Posted by Enigmatics »

No, just aggravated by it. Like I said, I've put in a lot of time and effort.

then you deserve to feel bad

trading is about yourself, not others.
trading is like playing golf... you call the shots, you make the swing, you hit the ball... nobody else.


if you get aggravated by someone's peeny stock win, LOL, you will never make anything out of this....
trading penny stock is gambling, stop now is your best bet





ps. i might sound harsh, but 5 yrs from now, you will see the value of what i am saying:
unless you change your frame of mind, you will simply repeat more of what you have been experiencing.

[Enigmatics]

Originally Posted by Tams »

then you deserve to feel bad

trading is about yourself, not others.
trading is like playing golf... you call the shots, you make the swing, you hit the ball... nobody else.


if you get aggravated by someone's peeny stock win, LOL, you will never make anything out of this.... trading penny stock is gambling, stop now is your best bet





ps. i might sound harsh, but 5 yrs from now, you will see the value of what i am saying:
unless you change your frame of mind, you will simply repeat more of what you have been experiencing.

I get what you're saying, but know that I don't trade penny stocks. I gave up that wasteland about a year ago when I finally came to my senses.