[illcrx]

I had a REALLY bad day yesterday, one of those days where it feels like nothing goes right and where things that should go wrong go horribly wrong, one that just pisses you off to no end!

Well those days I use as reflective days, I wasn't trading by the way.

One of the things I thought of was whether I should trade anymore or quit and just invest in mutual funds. I have made no money from trading and apparently I am addicted to over-trading. I mean really addicted to over-trading. I know this effects many people and Im wondering if anyone has overcome this to successfully trade and make a living or at least grow your Roth IRA?

I will always get in too early before a daily trend line break, then out after it crosses a 5 minute level of support, without breaking out. Sometimes during the same day sometimes during the 2-3 days following my entry. Also I seem to move my attention away from the leader stocks while they are "boringly" basing, obviously I know I do this yes it persists. Like everyone on here Im a good stock picker but a horrible trader, I know I am doing this wrong and for some reason I cant get it right! I have no written strategy, I have no written trading log and no money management policy and I understand that all of this goes against good practices, I really just wonder why I cant get it straight! This last go around was with fake money and I said I wasnt going to trade until I took that 50k to 1 million, see how unrealistic that is!

I am big on beating myself up and am my own worst critic at the same time I know I am capable of great things, maybe stock trading just isn't one of them?

Has anyone gone through something similar?

[MarkHocky]

Hi Illcrx,

Don't pack it in just yet. From reading your post, you already know what to do:

"I have no written strategy, I have no written trading log and no money management policy and I understand that all of this goes against good practices..."

One of the things I'm still constantly struggling with; is stopping myself from playing around with different systems or parameters in testing, hoping i'll come across a winner.

But of course hoping doesn't doesn't bring in the cash. I now am forcing myself to follow a structured approach to improving my trading.

You've already recognised the things you need to do. Uncross those fingers, and get stuck into the nitty gritty work. There's no other way.

I haven't mastered this yet either, and will be there struggling along beside you (in spirit anyways).

Keep at it!

Mark.

[Tams]

Originally Posted by illcrx »

I had a REALLY bad day yesterday, one of those days where it feels like nothing goes right and where things that should go wrong go horribly wrong, one that just pisses you off to no end!

Well those days I use as reflective days, I wasn't trading by the way.

One of the things I thought of was whether I should trade anymore or quit and just invest in mutual funds. I have made no money from trading and apparently I am addicted to over-trading. I mean really addicted to over-trading. I know this effects many people and Im wondering if anyone has overcome this to successfully trade and make a living or at least grow your Roth IRA?

I will always get in too early before a daily trend line break, then out after it crosses a 5 minute level of support, without breaking out. Sometimes during the same day sometimes during the 2-3 days following my entry. Also I seem to move my attention away from the leader stocks while they are "boringly" basing, obviously I know I do this yes it persists. Like everyone on here Im a good stock picker but a horrible trader, I know I am doing this wrong and for some reason I cant get it right! I have no written strategy, I have no written trading log and no money management policy and I understand that all of this goes against good practices, I really just wonder why I cant get it straight! This last go around was with fake money and I said I wasnt going to trade until I took that 50k to 1 million, see how unrealistic that is!

I am big on beating myself up and am my own worst critic at the same time I know I am capable of great things, maybe stock trading just isn't one of them?

Has anyone gone through something similar?

learning to learn is the first step to success.

[Tradewinds]

Originally Posted by illcrx »

I will always get in too early

There is a good side to this. The very best thing that any trader could ever have, is to know what the price is going to do in the future. You always get in too early. That implies that you correctly anticipated what the price was going to do before hand. That's not a bad thing. If you are correctly anticipating what price is going to do, then you actually have a huge advantage, because you have time to react. You are just reacting to early.

In practice trading, intentionally wait until after the turn in price. Develop a habit of waiting. Actually wait until you think it's too late. Notice how it feels to be patient and wait. You have a hard time dealing with the anticipation. You want the uncomfortable feeling to be over with so you react on your feelings. Being patient and waiting causes tension, and you want the tension gone, so you enter the order. Or you may have fear that you are going to miss the entry. But if you are getting in way to early, then it doesn't make any sense to be afraid of missing out on the entry.

My opinion is, that this issue is primarily an issue of letting emotions control you. Do you want something controlling you that is doing bad things to you? That's the way I think of it. I think of it in terms of a computer program running in my emotions that is simply making me do what I shouldn't be doing. If that is true, then you have no "free will"; you are just a robot doing whatever the program tells you to do, even if it makes you trade badly. Do you want to be a mindless robot, allowing your mind to make you do what you shouldn't be doing? Most people are mindless robots, and they have absolutely no idea what they are doing or why they are doing it. We must reprogram ourselves. That's why I'm telling you to practice waiting until the point where you think it's too late. Then make a mental note about whether you actually were to late or not, then adjust.

I made myself wait until I thought it was actually past the optimum point to exit a trade, and it made a huge difference. I was constantly exiting the trade too early.

[SRspider]

Do not quit just yet. At this point you are not losing money. I think that you have done the right thing in going to a simulator. Second i think it is also good that you have figured out that you have no written plan and no money management technique. You have found your weakneses. Now what you must work on is two things. First you must write out what is going to get you into the market and what is going to get you out. This does not have to be perfect but it must be detailed enough that there is no second guessing yourself about whether or not you should pull the trigger. Now this could be simple not something fancy. Actually the simpler the better. Now you must firmly beleive that following this entry strategy is THE ONLY WAY to your success. Commit to this for 30 days. Do not worry about making money or if your trades are positive or negative. Just focus on only taking trades that are permitted by your plan that is it. No other trades allowed.
The firstbfew days are the hardest especially if your trades are losers. Do not focus on the money just the process.
Once you get this going start analyzing the losing trades and constantly ask yourself if there is a common theme among the losers. If you observe somethng then write it down and try to adjust. You can adjust your setups but this work has to be done after the close not during the trading day. In time probabaly a few months you will star nitcing little nuances that will help you bring your winning percentages up.

Everything that you have written in your post i have personally experienced and i felt lost and frustrated witout a clue. It was not until i committed myself to only taking predifined trades based on my plan that i started to turn the corner. Now the lsoing days are much fewer than than the winning days

One last thing dont blame yourself for losses. Congtratulate yourself for following the plan. If you lose consistently iys not your fault if you are following the plan, it is your setups. Blame them and then try and fix them. Check out my thread called "i used to blame myself" in the psychology section.

I know this will help you. And let me know how it goes. PM me or just post here.
Make that plan write it out and follow it
Good luck

[BlowFish]

Originally Posted by illcrx »

I know I am doing this wrong and for some reason I cant get it right! I have no written strategy, I have no written trading log and no money management policy and I understand that all of this goes against good practices, I really just wonder why I cant get it straight!

It is not just 'good practices' you are pretty much doomed to failure until you take care of those things. Until then you are playing at trading. Harsh but true.

The question you have to ask yourself is why have you not formalised your plan and money management strategy? Is it fear of failure? Maybe it's an excuse (if you have no plan you can be lenient on yourself regrading whether you executing properly). Perhaps you are still in the 'grail' stage and don't want to commit to the plan until it is 'perfect'. Maybe you want to validate yourself through 'calling the market', a plan would take away that glory (it would also shoulder a lot of the pain incidentally). Slap your self for trading without a plan and commit to not doing it again.

And Yes. Been through very similar as I imagine many people here have.

[TheNegotiator]

Treat trading as a business and with a great deal of respect. It is a game, but it's not a game you want to lose. You must be accountable.

[illcrx]

Wow thank a lot everyone for your input, it has been very helpful and encouraging.

I definitively understand what you guys are saying in that I dont have those things written down and you are absolutely right and I will start to do that.

SRspider, I actually read your thread before I posted this one! Very good insight.

BlowFish, you are absolutely right I am doomed to fail with the way that I do things, the old way. Maybe it was an excuse, maybe it was me trying to trade the lazy way as life gets hectic and the GF doesnt like me spending hours on the computer. But no more! You guys have rejuvenated me! I will get back on this horse but I wrote down a few notes to get me back on track.

1) Go get a few binders to write down daily trade journals, whether I traded or not, on the general market condition and how I'm looking at it and maybe I'll go back every 6 months and make subsequent notes on whether I was correct or need to adjust how I look at things
2) I'll write down my setups I want to see, SPspider is right on this one and the stupid part is that I knew it before! So I'll write down my setups and adjust them every 30 days or so.
3) Write down my money management style and stick to it, try to make it automatic with alerts at certain price points.

Tradewinds, you are definitely correct about my emotions controlling me and the anticipation factor, though I never though of it in the terms of "anticipation" thats exactly what was happening. Also I know for a fact that the Wall St players on the other side of the terminal position the market like this on purpose to take advantage of this psychological weakness of people and I let them play me! Grrr. You are dead on about needing to be comfortable in the uncomfortable, I have been there briefly before and I need to get back there.

Wow thanks a lot guys you gave me all I needed and more, great insight. I'll start posting on here more often apparently its a good forum!

FYI, I follow IBD and Dan Zanger.