[Mysticforex]

Originally Posted by Ingot54 »

Rande - This is probably the best response I have seen from you - at least your words are beginning to be meaningful to my understanding.

Maybe some traders need your kind of intervention - I do not know - all I do know is what has worked for me, and I am excited by the breakthrough.

Very interesting thread!
Ingot, I am sure there are a lot of traders who could benefit from a little insight.
Problem is, the ones who need it most ( losing money ) can least justify the expense.
As for your suggestion that Rande trade a DEMO Acct, we all know that trading demo does not come close to the emotional level of trading real money.

Rande has earned his LPC, so it's probaby safe to say that he has paid his dues.

I am pasting from Wekipedia only part of what's involved in obtaing an LPC:


LPC (or variation, i.e. LCPC, LMHC, etc.) licensure is recognized in 50 states in the United States, as well as the District of Columbia, Guam, and Puerto Rico.[1] The requirements vary from one jurisdiction to the next. Please review the National Board for Certified Counselors website for your state or jurisdiction's information:[2]

Included below is a summary of requirements found in the state of Texas LPC board as an example.[3] (Your state or jurisdiction's website will look different)

"A master's degree or doctoral degree in counseling or a related field.

1. Academic course work in each of the following areas: normal human growth and development; abnormal human behavior; appraisal or assessment techniques; counseling theories; counseling methods or techniques (individual and group); research; lifestyle and career development; social, cultural and family issues; and professional orientation.
2. As part of the graduate program, a supervised practicum experience that is primarily counseling in nature. The practicum should be at least 300 clock-hours with at least 100 clock-hours of direct client contact. Academic credit for the practicum must appear on the applicant's transcript.
3. After completion of the graduate degree and before application, an applicant must take and pass the National Counselor Exam and the Texas Jurisprudence Exam. After receiving a temporary LPC license from the board, the applicant may begin the supervised post-graduate counseling experience (internship). 3000 clock-hours with at least 1,500 being direct client contact of internship under the supervision of a board-approved supervisor is required. The 3000 clock-hours may not be completed in a time period of less than 18 months."

Clock hours and contact hours with clients needed to obtain licensure vary by state. Other states, Oklahoma for example, require a 60-hour degree (versus the traditional 48-hour degree), and mandate at least 300 hours of internship prior to graduation OK Dept of Health

The model of the LPC is based upon the United States model for the regulation of professions. Each state is granted the privilege to regulate whom may practice a particular profession and what the rights and responsibilities associated with that profession are. In most other countries, the Ministry of Education provides the authority to universities to grant licensure or a licenciatura upon completion of university studies. In these European-based regulation models, a license is granted for perpetuity and does not require renewal as is typical in the United States.

[Rande Howell]

Originally Posted by Ingot54 »

Rande - This is probably the best response I have seen from you - at least your words are beginning to be meaningful to my understanding.

We are still coming at the problems of finding success in trading from different directions, but from your response, I can accept that there are more than one solution to solving a problem. And I also readily accept your compassion, and determination to apply your years of study and understanding of academic concepts, towards solving the complex issues some traders have, in overcoming seemingly insurmountable trading negatives.

For myself - because I solved my own problems from an entirely practical (as opposed to theoretical) base, I find it very easy to be adamant that what I did should be able to be applied to most, if not all traders with problems. I needn't repeat ad nauseum what that was - I am sure readers are becoming heartily sick of my rants.

However, I think we shall agree to disagree on the value of a Therapeutic approach based on psychology, versus an approach based on preparing one's self correctly for a lifetime of trading - eg learning the TA, developing an edge, executing a plan, focusing on a strategy, and committing to a consistent cycle of reviewing-planning-implementing-evaluating-reviewing-planning-implementing evaluating.

It works - and it doesn't take long, and it doesn't cost anything.

Thank you for your response, Rande - it has been most meaningful.

Maybe some traders need your kind of intervention - I do not know - all I do know is what has worked for me, and I am excited by the breakthrough.

I'm happy for you that you have built a psychological methodology that allows you to trade your edge. That's the goal, no matter what direction you come from. My work involves a degree of therapuetic intervention, but a whole bunch more development of potential. First, you gotta regulate fear and separate it from uncertainty -- or you just can't trade successfully. When I first started working with personal development, I thought was I getting out of mental health. Needless to say, I was wrong. Anger, fear, and impulse were the same in both domains. Part of this stuff is academic, but most of it is applied to the trenches of our every day struggles. When seized by the alure of financial freedom and personal freedom promised by trading, many people walk into a trap that they are ill prepared for. After that deception falls away, traders wake up to the reality that they must love the game. Because the game of trading is going to require massive changes in the way they believe and perceive the world. It is this place that I have compassion for.

By the way, I find these forums an excellent way of keeping my own emotional regulation skills up to speed. There are many invitations for triggering emotionally. I was beginning to miss the challenge of maintaining emotional soberiety.

Rande Howell

[Mysticforex]

Originally Posted by Rande Howell »

By the way, I find these forums an excellent way of keeping my own emotional regulation skills up to speed. There are many invitations for triggering emotionally. I was beginning to miss the challenge of maintaining emotional soberiety.

Rande Howell

That's good. I have to remember that and use it on my wife, she's a Psychiatrist.

[davidjohnhall]

I think a lot of the emotions surrounding trading (fear, greed, over-confidance, depression, etc.) come from what we think we are going to have when we obtain this vague amount of "money" we're striving for. Instead of mastering the trade it becomes about: this trade is moving me closer to my fantasy life (OMG I'm so excited, I'm a rockstar, I'm a hero, I'm a winner, I'm a God, finally life is going to be EASY!) -- to this trade is moving me away from my fantasy life (Damn, I'm so depressed, I'm such a loser, I'm worthless, I'm a coward, etc.).

Do we think this way when we go to our day jobs? Maybe. I don't know. Maybe trading is the promise of not feeling that way ever again. But that feeling has got nothing to do with money -- in my opinion.

Trading offers us all the possibility of financial freedom. Yes. But so do many other professions. Lawyers, doctors, plumbers (yes, I know 2 millionaire plumbers), business owners, almost anything you can think of.

Money, in the case of trading, is nothing more than the raw material we have to work with to master the craft. We have charts, indicators, systems, and capital. Unfortunately, there is so much emotion surrounding money. But the emotions have nothing to do with the money itself. It's not even what we think we're going to buy with the money. It's who we think we are going to be.

I did an exercise once regarding money. Played a fantasy game where I plotted out a perfect fantasy life where I had all the money I could ever want...and visualized it down to the tiniest detail...then asked myself how I felt...what was the overriding emotion I was feeling as uber wealthy me.

The overwhelming feeling was "relaxed"... LOL I knew right then and there that a luxury for me was associated with relaxing. Relaxing. That's it. I don't need a gazillion dollars to relax. I just need to relax...and enjoy it. So that's what I started doing...relaxing. And a lot got better.

This feeling that's "out there" doesn't really exist (in my opinion). Think of an area of your life where you have abundance. I don't care if it's "I have more tube socks than I know what to do with". Do you walk around feeling amazing about it all the time? No. It's just the way it is. Right now, you probably have a television that costs more than a years wages in some countries. Do you wake up feeling amazed by that fact? I bet you don't. The same would happen with wealth after awhile. You're not going to be "super you" you're just going to be you. The real joy of trading comes from trading right...and learning what that it. Learning how to do it. Learning how to take a loss and move on. Learning how to pull the trigger and flow with the market. Learning how to backtest and what the results mean. Learning how to read charts and form conclusions.

This idea really helped me relax when it came to trading, relax. My perfect life wasn't moving closer or further away. My perfect life was available any time I wanted it. Trading is just a game I've chosen to challenge myself and to apply my mental abilities.

David John Hall

[johnw]

Originally Posted by Mysticforex »

Agree. When I "Feel positive it usually means I am getting over confident.

Golly, that must be confusing for you.

[Rande Howell]

Originally Posted by Mysticforex »

That's good. I have to remember that and use it on my wife, she's a Psychiatrist.

Unfortunately psychiatrist gives you 15 minutes and then medicates the feeling of the emotion. Not much help long term, but great for drug companies. Taking charge of the brain's pharmacy creates a very different way of dealing with emotional triggers.

Rande Howell

[PiptopiaX]

Originally Posted by Rande Howell »

Unfortunately psychiatrist gives you 15 minutes and then medicates the feeling of the emotion. Not much help long term, but great for drug companies. Taking charge of the brain's pharmacy creates a very different way of dealing with emotional triggers.

Rande Howell

I think psychiatrists treat mental illness, they are not behaviorists. Last time I checked drug therapy is still required for treating psychosis and bi-polar disorder.

[steve46]

Originally Posted by Rande Howell »

Unfortunately psychiatrist gives you 15 minutes and then medicates the feeling of the emotion. Not much help long term, but great for drug companies. Taking charge of the brain's pharmacy creates a very different way of dealing with emotional triggers.

Rande Howell

Well Sir or Madam

I have to wonder if this really represents your best understanding of what Psychiatry is about?

The first six words are technically correct, and then the rest of it seems to be your bias and half truths....I don't think Psychiatrists need me to defend them, so I will simply move on as I dont see the value in continuing along these lines.

Good luck to everyone in the markets
Steve