[evolved trader]

I was trading this morning and through an experience a question arose.

For all you day traders out there how long of a time frame are you able to trade while still feeling focused and centered? Especially when you’re waiting for a setup to form that’s taking a little longer than expected.

Have you ever found yourself being sidetrack doing other tasks on the computer? Emailing, or reading other websites (Bloomberg).

I usually trade live for about 5 hours in the morning. However I’ve found my level of focus and intensity fades in and out while waiting in between trades to setup. This will sometime cause me to “miss” a move because I wasn’t
mentally in the space to take the trade.

Does anyone have some tips to stay in tune with the market while things are a bit slower? What approaches do you all take? Do you only focus on trading for the 4-5 hours straight and eliminating any other tasks?

Maybe you get away from the screen for a few minutes to keep fresh?

Any suggestion our thoughts are greatly appreciated.

-Ryan

[Eiger]

FIve hours at one clip is pretty hard to sustain. In trading the S&P eminis, the market starts to slow down a bit after 11:00-11:30 on most days. The noon hour is usually very slow. These are good time to take breaks. Schedule a break at least every hour and one-half. It is a good idea to be flexible in this - if the market is moving you don't want to have to take a break. So, schedue breaks in a window, say every 60-90 minutes, depending on your market. When you take a break, do it for 10-minutes or so and get out of your chair and do something different in a different place (take a short walk, get a snack, etc). Getting away from the screen helps you to be more refreshed coming back. Also, if you have scheduled breaks, you can then better notice when you drift off and go check email, surf the net, or look at other markets, etc. It is a bit easier to bring yourself back when a break is not too far away.

Another thing I have found very useful (as have other traders I know) is mindfulness excercises. Mindfuness is all about focus and concentration. Like becoming proficient in reading the chart, you can train your mind to greater levels of concentraion and focus. There are lots of other benefits to mindfulness, as well. Google it and you'll find stuff out there. Send me a PM and I will send some helpful mindfulness excercises, if you like.

Eiger

[Wes]

Trade with a buddy. Be it a live buddy in-person or on the phone or on internet messenger or video chat, or a trader chat room of some kind. It's an extra set of eyes on the market, and even when you're distracted, that distraction will hopefully be related to the market in some way. Or, if you get distracted, you have someone to smack you into shape again. Hedge funds have teams of people trading against you, so you may as well have a team, too.

Some people work better without others around, of course. ymmv.

Most everyone needs a break now and then. Nothing wrong with taking a decent lunch break, or any other short break, really. That's kind of the point of not having a boss. The only thing with breaks is it's up to you whether to take one while you're in a trade or not. Confidence in your position is great until taking a 20-minute lunch costs you thousand of dollars.

If you're distracted and not really paying attention, there's a higher chance of making a mistake, so you may as well take a complete break until you can focus again. And if you miss an opportunity during that break, oh well. Staying out of it beats half-assing it. And maybe missing some good opportunities will give you incentive to stay more focused.

If none of that works, think about what it would be like to have a "real" job you completely hate like 95% of everyone in the world does. That might be good motivation.

[brownsfan019]

Ryan - I have the very same problem at times and is part of the reason I started this thread.

Here's some ideas:

1) Depending on your markets being traded, you may need to find your personal sweet spot. What I mean is that while the market is basically open 24/7 (and a focus from 930am-4pm) there's a lot of hours in there to trade. Unless you program your system, you cannot possibly sustain long periods of trading and focus IMO. So instead of trying to force a square peg in a round hole, take a step back and see WHEN you trade your BEST. Then, focus on that timeframe as your starting point.

I'll give the best example I can think of right now - I used to be the guy that wanted to trade 8am-415pm on the ES. Wanted to take every trade I saw and make $10k+ per day like it was nothing. Honest to God. At some point I realized that I personally cannot sit and trade from 8am-415pm, Mon-Fri. Not only do I lack the focus, but I'm pretty sure I have some sort of case of ADD where during slow times my mind wanders like you wouldn't believe. The internet is a marvelous place to get lost and kill hours of time.

Finally one day I just took a step back and said - ENOUGH. I PROVED that I cannot trade all day, every day. Once you've proved to yourself that you cannot do that, find what works for you. We are conditioned from a young age that a 'full work day' consists of working at least 9am-5pm per day, if not longer. Our brain is conditioned to believe you must work longer and harder to make more money....

Well, I found out the long and expensive way that belief does not hold true in trading. While there are some machines & people that can do it, I can't!

What this meant for my trading was focusing on the AM (8am-noon) and that's it. And from there I narrowed my primary trading choice to bonds that have some great moves in the AM and some days can easily create a great day by 10am or sooner. As a matter of fact, I was just mentioning in the TL chat room on Tue morning w/ another bond trader (we were only 2 in room) that my day had pretty much been done before the index guys even showed up.

2) Once you've found your sweet spot, then it's a matter of doing it in the allotted time. I still have issues with this and today's post showed that. I wish I could give you the magical formula to keep you focused, but I am still looking for it myself.

3) From there you can argue that only working the charts during your allotted timeframe is what you should be doing. Whether you only have the charts going or not, you need to work on developing a focus during the timeframe that you have available. I try to tell myself that I only have 4 hours per day to do my job, so I better do it good. That works most days.

4) The purpose of the P/L thread is to create accountability. You need to make yourself accountable to someone or something. For me, using a public forum is an added motivation to get the job done as I had hit a rut w/ just going through the motions. If you are married, get your wife involved. If not, then find someone or some avenue where you know you have to tell them how you did today. I'd welcome you to our P/L thread and YOU post what YOU want. It can be as simple as - Plan followed: Y/N. What you post is up to you. But get accountable somewhere.

In the end, it's something some of us battle with and it's not easy. I've actually considered doing more research on the subject to see what else is out there to help in this area - whether being exercises, supplements, etc. I haven't done it yet though... just not focused enough I guess.

[evolved trader]

Eiger

I really like that process. It's simple. I'm going to apply that tomorrow. I'll set time my breaks for every 60-90 minutes depending on the market conditions.

Great advice, this will help me break the day up a bit.

Wes

Another great idea. Something I intend on doing in the near future. Great point about the Hedge Funds.

I've learned working from home alone takes disipline. It's really a matter of me treating trading as a business. If I miss an opportunity one day, its usually becasue was distracted by something else on the net.

[evolved trader]

Hey BrownsFan

Great reply as always. Good to know I'm not alone. I'm very similar in the sense I know at a whim what signals my edge is giving me, however my attention may only be about 60% at the time.

Accountability is huge, and something I'll do starting tonight. Thanks for the reminder. I have a friend I can use over email. I appreciate the invite!

I definetly know me "sweet spots". So I'll work my "breaks" around those times. Proably go for a quick 5 minute walk down the street.

I find getting away from the screen and into some form of nature refreshing...

Thanks for the feedback!

-Ryan

[BlowFish]

A lot depends on the nature (frequency) of your trading. Does one really need to watch every bar form? Watch every tick if you like. if you are taking many trades an hour that last from seconds to minutes, maybe. Under those circumstances it's not too hard o focus though momentary distractions (like a phone) can be a problem. If however, you are trying to catch the main intraday swings, set some alarms on your platform and go and do something else.

How do you trade do you really need to concentrate all the time or just at key junctures?

I have to ask is there some psychological issue going on. I often used to find that I was looking at email or doing something else right around places I needed to take action (usually to enter). It was a subtle avoidance mechanism the old subconscious doing its best to 'protect me'. Could that be going on with you?

Just a couple of thoughts.

[traderpsyches]

In Chicago at CME right now with not a lot of time but short version - take lots of breaks. Get away from the stimulation of the trade, do jumping jacks, take a walk... yes once in awhile you will miss a great set up but the fear and frustration of that reality is the emotional architecture behind the worst trades.

If you manage first and foremost to your psychological capital - energy, mood etc... the rest will take care of itself presuming you have a decent trading strategy and tactics pre-planned.

Sorry for short reply -