[thetradingdoctor]

Hi Everyone,

Money is the last great taboo of our culture. People will tell most everything about themselves, including the intimate details of their sex lives. With few exceptions, they will not tell you about money--how much they have, how much they want, what will or won't do to get it--what they think of people who may or may not have more or less money than they do--what money really means to them--how conflicted they are about money.


Money is like an iceberg. The tip of the iceberg shows above the water as conflict, guilt and overwhelm. Below the surface are feelings of complacency, intimidation, silence, fear and ignorance. It is these deepest feelings about money that many are reluctant to face. These feelings are among those that lead to failure or success as a trader.

Look at this conflict, stated by Vic Oliver: If a man runs after money, he's money-mad; if he spends it, he's a playboy; if he doesn't try to get t, he lacks ambition; if he gets it without working for it, he's a parasite; and, if he accumulates it after a lifetime of hard work, people call him a fool who never got anything out of life because all he did was work!

Most traders and investors are preoccupied with money. They want to find the system, the indicators, the newsletter, the guru, the platform, the Holy Grail that will turn into an ATM for them. It is a search, ususally without end. Everyone wants to live in Richistan ( this is a book by Robert Frank) but few have passports or know how to get in---or stay in.

What does money mean to you? What are your deepest fears about money?
What are your hopes for money? How do you see yourself in the world of money? What does "having it all" mean to you?

Thanks!

Doctor Janice

[TinGull]

Originally Posted by thetradingdoctor »

What does money mean to you? What are your deepest fears about money? What are your hopes for money? How do you see yourself in the world of money? What does "having it all" mean to you?

Thanks!

Doctor Janice

Hmmm, interesting questions. Money, to me, means freedom. I dont need a lot of it for me to live, but would like to make a big chunk to be able to donate to various non-profits that me and my partner have worked with in the past.

Deepest fears about money? I guess my deepest fear is that if I had too much of it I'd turn into a lame person and just sit on my yacht all day drinking champagne and wastefully spending money on trivial things like that. I don't think that'd ever happen to me, but that's a fear I think about from time to time.

My hopes for money? I hope money will give me the freedom that I want from having someone over my shoulder trying to push me to earn money for THEM instead of me pushing myself to earn money for ME. I hope money gives me the ability to give back to the communities that have enriched my life growing up thus far.

How do I see myself in the world of money? I see myself as someone different. Someone who would have a million dollars in the bank but still live in a 900 sq ft house with my girl and 2 dogs, still use just one car to get around, still grow our own food, still be exactly the same as I was when I was struggling hard...just without the "Oh crap, how will we pay mortgage THIS month?" feeling at the end of the month.

"Having it all" means having someone to love (who loves me back) and doing good with what I am able to create for myself. Whether that be monetarily (giving to foundations and other non profits) or by teaching others what I know (either with trading or preferably with music). I will have a sweet recording studio again someday where I can host artists who want to be inspired by the natural beauty of the Maine coast line.

How you earn the income can also make a big difference in your quality of life.

The best form of income is amplified, residual income - where someone or something works for you, and you get a paycheck without having to do much of anything yourself after the initial efforts.

So how can we extrapolate this to trading? In order to generate an income you have to physically enter and exit your trades profitably - at the right time and place. To do this yourself consistently takes dedication, hard work and lots of discipline. It also requires a lot of your time and effort to identify the proper setup and execute it appropriately. Hence the rush to figure out how to automate or mechanize your trading setups.

Think of it. You push a button, and the computer does the rest - identifying your setup, executing your trades, and you reap the profits. It's the so-called holy grail of trading - that's why there's an emphasis on all these "black box" trading strategies that do it all for you.

Just set it and forget it.

[walterw]

I personally enjoy the "profession" of trading... I am very glad to be a trader as profession... I enjoy every aspect of the trading profession that not necessary is related to money, like technicals, trading itself etc... and then money its an expontaneous consecuence.... so I try not to focus that much on money as on the profession... certainly when money comes in, so the party comes in... but I try to treat it as a mere consecuence... ironically on this profession money is the only objective... but if to much focused on it, you most probably are going to fail... its better to focus on the traders technicall and psichological aspects more than money, thats so far my experience... cheers Walter.

[thetradingdoctor]

For the experienced traders--and those that are taught properly--money is the byproduct of doing it correctly. For the huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the markets promise instant riches, magical thousands of percent increases to their accounts, holy grails, magical potions, tons of dopamine and every aspect of unbridled greed.

Excellent perspective, Walter and thanks to all for sharing on this topic.

Thanks!
Doctor Janice

[thetradingdoctor]

This is a trader having a really bad day....wonder if money has anything to do with the behavior?

http://tinyurl.com/3dom4k

I would love to hear more from this board about money attitudes and how you see yourself in the world of money. Please prove me wrong when I say that money is the last great taboo of our culture and no one wants to talk about it?

Thanks!

Doctor Janice

[Nick1984]

Firstly love the new avatar Reaver. Predator is an awesome movie!

On to money. Money for me is a tool. A means to an end. Only reason I see for money is to get me what i want. I want to work to live, not live to work. Theres more to life in my oppinion than chasing another dollar.

I don't want to be another working stiff who starts work in their early twenties and stops in the mid 60's only to start to enjoy life when I'm too old to really do it. Think of it, with 4 weeks annual leave per year over 40 years of working you only get an aggregate of just over 3 years vacation in your working career. Sound like fun to you....HELL NO!

The world is an amazing place with so much to do and explore, why should you be stuck exploring it on youtube stuck in your little cubicle procrastinating while doing an average of 2 hours real work per day making someone else rich?

The thing that attracted me to trading is the flexibility of work/life that you have being your own boss.

Before I decided to sit down and learn trading I asked myself some questions as to what would make me happy in life. Well honestly for me to be happy, I want to have a fully paid off house that my family and myself can live in. To be able to take care of my mum once she retires. To be able to have the freedom to sit down on a beach drinking coffee all day, play sports and talk to friends. Explore the world.

I estimated that provided I have a house fully paid off for myself, I would only need about 100k a year to have all the freedom I need to be happy. Hell if you divert most of your trading profits into managed funds that pay regular income distributions you don't need that much to have 100k of passive cash flow a year!

I would continue trading simply because I love the game of trading, not the money associated with it. Trading is a means to an end in terms of money. Life is waaaaay to short to screw around with a shirt and collar around you neck for 40 years.

That being said, I'd still work for a prop firm for a number of years though so I can a) boost my own cash reserves b) learn c) have the life experience.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by thetradingdoctor »

This is a trader having a really bad day....wonder if money has anything to do with the behavior?

http://tinyurl.com/3dom4k

I would love to hear more from this board about money attitudes and how you see yourself in the world of money. Please prove me wrong when I say that money is the last great taboo of our culture and no one wants to talk about it?

Thanks!

Doctor Janice

Hillarious Doc ¡¡ its also funny to see how the others dont bother much to help... its more important their positions to whats happening there... good one ¡¡¡

About tabu doc... absolutely, from both sides, rich and poor... cheers Walter.