Welcome to the Traders Laboratory.

Trading Psychology How do we learn to conquer our fear and greed? Discuss the mental aspects of the game.

Reply
Old 08-22-2016, 11:56 PM   #1

mitsubishi's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Beyond
Posts: 1,767
Ignore this user

Thanks: 195
Thanked 380 Times in 274 Posts

There's Something Intriguing About Human Nature

Every now and then I feel the need to check out some other guy's holy grail just to see if I can pick up something that could be turned into something useful. Maybe seeing things from a completely different (or slightly different) perspective is a healthy thing.

But sometimes I do it just so I can have a good laugh at the things some people believe. But on this occasion (2 weeks ago) I came across something that's always given me mixed feelings. (The link is posted below.)

It's not that I'm fascinated with the idea behind Steve Copan's The Market Matrix...well, I'll admit I'm usually open minded, no, I'm more curious about how you go about marketing this kind of thing.

In the same way as I kind of admire the ability of the corporate world to produce something that is completely useless shite, give it a sexy package, tell us how wonderful it is and then watch the sheep practically kill each other in their desperation to own it.

How do you convince so many people that there's a secret holy grail buried in the market that only you know about? Why is it that reasonably intelligent people are willing to believe the strangest of things often based on the flimsiest of evidence? Why does the promise of riches automatically deselect the critical thinking mode in so many people's heads?

Currently on youtube there is a short introductory series of 5 videos on the afore mentioned holy grail that resulted in me forward testing the theory from 2007/8 onwards- the period that Steve was showing. He also showed an earlier period and the copyright appears to cover the mid 90's . I've no doubt the guy has done a lot of work on this and actually believed he'd found something. (I know the history of this descending from The Delta Theory.)

Note- I said believed

Regular readers will be slightly surprised, I'm sure, when I admit that at one point I was considering emailing him to apologise for every bad thing I ever said about him in the past.
But don't worry folks, that idea wore off pretty quick (about 2 days- a weekend of testing )

It partly took that long, because the project evolved from trying to make the theory stand up to..hmmm maybe I can make it work better, to, oh jeez, I thought I was past this kind of thing, to, you know what? I am past this kind of thing ...for the next 6 months at least.

Though it wasn't a total waste of time and I'll tell you why in a minute. It's the real reason I do this occasionally, because Steve made an announcement on tape 2 I think it was, so ludicrous I find it difficult to believe that I actually gave it room to breath and grow.

But I guess when someone is presenting something unfamiliar you tend to concentrate on the info being given before reflecting on it and possibly questioning/challenging it later.

Btw, I know that 2 days is nothing compared to the amount of time many others have put into this, some of whom are very happy with the results (there are threads on other forums) I don't intend to insult anyone else by giving my view. If it works for you, it's all good, you found da holly G..or Steve found it for you.... I know, I know you added your own ingredients to it to make it even more holy.

After all, even Steve felt the original theory needed ..customising. That is the nature of the holy grail- now you see it, now you don't. And once you seen it, boy you wanna see it again. You should see my 9 wave theory, it's poetry..for 3 years until it stops rhyming. Just friggin stops dead.

We all know it's human nature to customise everything... even if 90% of the time we're customising things to the exact specifications others are customising theirs to. But in trading you're almost forced to be original in some way.. which is why it is such a ...challenge, yet so worthy a calling. (imho)

Brief Outline About Da holy Grail

According to this theory, all market movements are based on cycles of varying degrees which are controlled by da moon. It's not something I find credible. I heard all the theories about how we're made of 90% water and the moon controls the tides. I've heard about casualty wards filling up when it's a full moon and Obama turns into a werewolf and Icke sees lizards everywhere.

But if a guy is gonna make such a claim then I really want to see what he's got to back it up with. I'm like that.

Same as if a critic tells me XYZ is the worst film ever made... I actually want to see the worst film ever made. My first question would probably be..was it made in Ukraine and does it have pigeon English sub titles? And are the people in it really dumb?

Anyway, let's get down to the nitty gritty . Let's find out why Steve is regularly required to reapply the lipstick to this pig. Let's find out why Trader Tom (google him) and friends shelled out 20k to view the pig and still seem convinced it's worth helping Steve flog a few copies rather than actually trade it themselves...or maybe they customised it.

cont'd
__________________
Everything to the left on your chart is free information
mitsubishi is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2016, 02:15 AM   #2

mitsubishi's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Beyond
Posts: 1,767
Ignore this user

Thanks: 195
Thanked 380 Times in 274 Posts

Re: There's Something Intriguing About Human Nature

After a brief outline on what a cycle is Steve introduces us to the 7 cycles he's found- I think it's 7, I'm not going back to check anything now, It's had all the time I'm ever going to give it so watch the tapes yourself.

Each cycle has it's own number of turning points and rules. Part of the reason it takes so long to test is the clever little rules to make something that doesn't actually exist 'work'

Steve informs us that MC-0 (Matrix Cycle- 0) and the cycle below it (MC-1) are very short duration cycles and since most people have got a day job he won't be explaining how these work- they're for day trading. Most punters, will want to trade longer durations, swing trading eod etc.

Hmmm. That's a bit disingenuous isn't it Steve? Most mugs wanna day trade so let's suggest the real reason for leaving out those cycles is that since we're watching a promo for the software you gotta pay to play. Fair enough, but why not just be honest. Is there just something wrong with being honest in this world.?

Did I mention software? yes you get the book the cd's the software, even one to one with Steve (so he can refund his account probably) all these things are up for grabs, None of this is cheap,, just cheaper these days compared to Steve's preferred price range.

But no doubt you can pick these up on ebay where your fellow citizens who are now rich beyond their dreams are disposing of said items. Or maybe they found out that...it wasn't what they were looking for in the end.

He also details the 4 year presidential cycle which people have heard of which adds to the credibility. Even experts in the various cycle theories admit that higher degree cycles can and will play havoc with the cycles below them. So part art, part science cycle work.

Steve gets straight into the MC-2 cycle which has 11 turning points but which can "invert" at the beginning or end of each cycle. Meaning an anticipated low could become a high which then creates an extra point in the cycle (a low) Confused? Don't worry the software does all the work for you, and contains the turns for the next 20 years. I predict quite a few billionaires by then.

All 3 MC-2 cycles shown did, in fact invert which at the time led me to suspect that there should be 12 points not 11...

lol- these things don't even exist for Christ sake.

Now there's one cycle that has 8 turning points and get this... Steve categorically stated that this cycle never inverts. Wow talk about selling the sizzle, that's the kind of thing that gets the mugs excited isn't it? Imagine knowing in advance where a market turn is due with 100% certainty.

Steve, gotta hand it to you it's a remarkable claim to make with a straight face. Gann would have been dismayed to learn that he wasn't the best snake charmer the trading world has ever produced.

Now that's the sizzle. Let's talk about the actual sausage. This 8 point cycle is a 4 year cycle with 1 high and low due each year. If you check the video you'll see how wide the margin of error is for each of the turns- it's actually useless. And btw I found it did invert in a later year from the period demonstrated, even allowing for that huge margin of error.

This is the reality of such outlandish claims. inevitable really. but let's go back to the best bit where Steve shows us a hindsight chart and starts labelling the turns on the MC- 2,

I must admit at first it's quite convincing watching the little numbers being lovingly placed on the waves until Steve, acting as if he hasn't studied this chart 25.000 times before,informs us that there are 4 highs in a row and there can only be 4 if one of them was an inversion point. But there wasn't, so he's stuck with these 4 highs.

"There are 4 highs here and we can't have that" he states. Wow, it's kind of like playing God isn't it? A bit like informing Wall St that the 4 Highs on the chart mustn't be there according to Steve's rules. I was kind of concerned for a second or two, wondering what he was gonna do about it.

Since a higher degree cycle point is due somewhere in this area, Steve sticks that on the chart (video 3) basically to prevent 4 highs in a row on the lower cycle.(albeit where its due to come in)

The problem for the sceptic here is that this higher degree cycle point produces no greater pullback on the chart than the previous pull backs on the lower cycle. A bigger pullback happens on a higher degree cycle point later, true, but you can see what sort of problems you'll have attempting to anticipate things in real time. And you really ' need' to believe these things exist in the first place.

Later, having labelled the 2007 top he suddenly realises he has got things in the wrong place. This is what makes me distrust the guy- he acts as if he's never seen this chart before- it's the acting part and how casually and naturally he does it that makes me think snake. But I guess a bit of showmanship is par for the course.

To be honest I only realised after further viewings and testing where all the flaws in the theory are. (quite a few) As I stated in the first post it is quite compelling to begin with and I got a reputation for being a cynic....

In the end, you either believe a market pulls back due to lack of buyers (for example) or you have to believe it pulls back due to lack of buyers whose decisions are being affected by the moon....hmmm

But why do I think I didn't waste my time? What idea did Steve give me to go and test for myself? Clue- it's one of his rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqDusgxFr2A
__________________
Everything to the left on your chart is free information
mitsubishi is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2016, 06:55 AM   #3
Blocks_2 Champion, Gnome pinball Champion, Collapse Champion, SuperMario Rampage Champion, Arkadium Skeeball Champion, Bozzle Champion, JezzBall Champion, Galaga Space Invaders Champion, Jurassic Pinball Champion, Zulu Gems Champion, Marble Motion Champion, Colour Chain Game Champion, Eye Drops Champion, Blocks Champion, Pinboliada Champion, Block Champion, Bubble Elements Champion, Festival Pinball Champion, Pinball King Champion, Cold Fusion Champion, Mario Kart Extreme! Champion, Crazy PinBall Champion, 7up Pinball Champion, National Treasure Pinball Champion, Cloud Breakout Champion, Crystal Island Champion, HotRod Pinball Champion, Zuma Kowloon Champion, Skee Ball Champion, Bomb Jack Champion, Blocks 2 Champion, Pepsi Max Pinball Champion, Dynomite Champion

jpennybags's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 496
Ignore this user

Thanks: 146
Thanked 75 Times in 69 Posts

Re: There's Something Intriguing About Human Nature

Let me guess...

Rule #1... "Always speak with a British accent; makes you sound far more credible than you actually are".

(At least until the word "aluminum" comes into the conversation).
jpennybags is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2016, 09:36 AM   #4

mitsubishi's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Beyond
Posts: 1,767
Ignore this user

Thanks: 195
Thanked 380 Times in 274 Posts

Re: There's Something Intriguing About Human Nature

Ha!.. we're kind of compelled to speak like brits, being born here..

UK- Aluminium

US- A loo min numb

UK - IRAQ- ear rark

US- eye rack

UK- dead innocent brown person

US- Terrorist.

UK- British Cop (policeman) " May I be of assistance sir' ?

US- PUT THE FUCKING PENCIL SHARPENER DOWN NOW SON....ON THE GROUND.NOW MOTHERFUCKER ...BANG BANG BANG.

I'd like him to do the videos in a Japanese accent...

" Goo afternoon lalees an' genermen.an' weckome to da Marker Maytwix. Here we se da MC psycho fwee (3) turn knee poys. As you see we have eighty (18) of dem...."

or German

" Das ist das rules of the Matrix...rules which must be obeyed at all times"
.

Brit TV still has it's moments..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5CR7qWDyTU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH4l5gdTd3Q

Sometimes even the Brits can't understand each other..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozpek_FrOPs
__________________
Everything to the left on your chart is free information
mitsubishi is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2016, 10:22 AM   #5
zdo

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: boonies
Posts: 2,658
Ignore this user

Thanks: 421
Thanked 569 Times in 429 Posts

Re:There's Something Intriguing About daysha voo and time fly :)

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...html#post64441

A month or so after I posted that an old friend in CA sent me the 3 DVD's. Not exactly my cup of tea.


http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...tml#post101849

for a small niche of traders it could be a ticket - provided they learn when and when not to use it. 'It' being convergences of fibs and delta's


...




PS beware anyone teaching cycles who has the words "invert" and "inversion" in his lexicon
zdo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2016, 12:44 PM   #6
Blocks_2 Champion, Gnome pinball Champion, Collapse Champion, SuperMario Rampage Champion, Arkadium Skeeball Champion, Bozzle Champion, JezzBall Champion, Galaga Space Invaders Champion, Jurassic Pinball Champion, Zulu Gems Champion, Marble Motion Champion, Colour Chain Game Champion, Eye Drops Champion, Blocks Champion, Pinboliada Champion, Block Champion, Bubble Elements Champion, Festival Pinball Champion, Pinball King Champion, Cold Fusion Champion, Mario Kart Extreme! Champion, Crazy PinBall Champion, 7up Pinball Champion, National Treasure Pinball Champion, Cloud Breakout Champion, Crystal Island Champion, HotRod Pinball Champion, Zuma Kowloon Champion, Skee Ball Champion, Bomb Jack Champion, Blocks 2 Champion, Pepsi Max Pinball Champion, Dynomite Champion

jpennybags's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 496
Ignore this user

Thanks: 146
Thanked 75 Times in 69 Posts

Re: There's Something Intriguing About Human Nature

We love you guys, even if you don't love us back...

There was a marketing study that came out several years ago which demonstrated a predilection that Americans have for a British accent in advertising. We somehow consider a British accent in a sales pitch to be more trustworthy. Go figure...
jpennybags is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2016, 01:33 PM   #7

mitsubishi's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Beyond
Posts: 1,767
Ignore this user

Thanks: 195
Thanked 380 Times in 274 Posts

Re: There's Something Intriguing About Human Nature

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpennybags »
We love you guys, even if you don't love us back...

There was a marketing study that came out several years ago which demonstrated a predilection that Americans have for a British accent in advertising. We somehow consider a British accent in a sales pitch to be more trustworthy. Go figure...
We like Americans, I think we believe their hearts are in the right place. But there's a common trait. We ignore people who tell the truth if we don't like them.. While at the same time we elect " a safe pair of hands" even when we know that their ideology is directly responsible for just about every socioeconomic problem we face.
__________________
Everything to the left on your chart is free information
mitsubishi is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2016, 02:06 PM   #8

mitsubishi's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Beyond
Posts: 1,767
Ignore this user

Thanks: 195
Thanked 380 Times in 274 Posts

Re: There's Something Intriguing About daysha voo and time fly :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdo »
http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...html#post64441

A month or so after I posted that an old friend in CA sent me the 3 DVD's. Not exactly my cup of tea.


http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...tml#post101849

for a small niche of traders it could be a ticket - provided they learn when and when not to use it. 'It' being convergences of fibs and delta's


...




PS beware anyone teaching cycles who has the words "invert" and "inversion" in his lexicon
Trader Tom used to sell his Market Maps which could contain inversions. His website has changed a lot since then .. I can see why he and Larry P are friends.


Trading using harmonic numbers


"My friend Larry Pesavento has made a short video about trading using Harmonic numbers. In all my seminars I teach this concept. It is an incredibly powerful tool to have in your trading arsenal. It will give you a very precise place to enter your trades, and it will give you a very clear idea of how much to risk on your trades"

Harmonic numbers...inversions..

"Be careful who you listen to. Even so-called experts, world recognized authorities, may have an agenda, which they don’t tell you about. I firmly believe that talk is cheap, and that everything you need to know is in the price. Price is king. Learn to master price and the rest will fall into place."


Tom.

Price is king.. but pay for mentoring and......


Personal mentoring


"Personal 1:1 mentoring is designed for those who want to learn my secret technique which I use for myself and in the live trading room to trade stock indices like the DAX, the FTSE and the Dow."

__________________
Everything to the left on your chart is free information
mitsubishi is offline  
Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Help Others By Rating This Thread
Help Others By Rating This Thread:

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
There Is Something Intriguing About Trading analyst75 Trading Psychology 18 09-02-2016 09:47 AM
An Old Veteran Trader Tells His Intriguing Story analyst75 Trading Psychology 2 12-04-2015 10:58 PM
Shull Redefines Human Reaction to Market Volatility Soultrader Trading Psychology 1 03-05-2009 09:39 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:02 PM.
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CS to VB integration by DeskLancer
©2006-2011 Traders Laboratory, All Rights Reserved.