[SIUYA]

ditto mysticFx and MM.
if you gave it away for free, people will still want to change it, ignore it, not believe it.
Charge....and people give it value. (religion comes to mind here for that added bit of controversy)

I have seen many systems that claim to be great and charge for that, when they are not much better than a simple system you could apply with most retail platforms.....
the market will pay what it can, and then after that the rest is marketing - marketing - marketing.

[MightyMouse]

Originally Posted by TimRacette »

MightyMouse-

I suppose because I am younger the insights that I've gathered over my 5 years as a student of the markets has been more direct. I've developed a lot more patience over the years, something I never had before. I've taken the traders mindset and transferred it to different disciplines such as relationships, business deals, and even bike racing. I guess the biggest thing I've got out of trading is a completely fresh mindset on how to live my life. The old cliche of not working for money, but having it work for you and building passive income streams totally transformed my life, but again, I was young when I started trading, in my teens, so a lot of it is probably just part of growing up.

Yeah a lot of things may have coincided at the same time as trading that I attribute to other events.and not necessarily to trading.I don't race bikes but i can see how that too might have provided some lessons on its own. Marriage and children are another big chapter.

MM

[MightyMouse]

Originally Posted by SIUYA »

ditto mysticFx and MM.
if you gave it away for free, people will still want to change it, ignore it, not believe it.
Charge....and people give it value. (religion comes to mind here for that added bit of controversy)

I have seen many systems that claim to be great and charge for that, when they are not much better than a simple system you could apply with most retail platforms.....
the market will pay what it can, and then after that the rest is marketing - marketing - marketing.

I am a discretionary trader, but I can see how i would benefit from coding what I do to free up some time or get me into trades that set up in the overnight.

I have not looked at any systems other than a quick glance as I delete them from my junk folder, but I think a trader could benefit from systems if he used them properly.

I have basically 2 "systems". 1 for trading a range and the other for trading a move or a trend. Breakouts I consider to be either trend continuation or trend reversal. But, I pretty much do the same thing each time in each system. The trick is knowing whether we are trending or ranging. I do not know if I would trust a system to tell me if a market is ranging or trending.

So, the systems that are one size fits all are probably a waste of time. A trend trading system will probably end up costing you money if you try to use it in a ranging market and a range trading system would end up costing you money in a trending market.

But I do not see how a trend trading system would be a bad thing if you actually used it to trade a trend. My way of trading a trend and someone else's way of trading a trend are probably not that much different in the long run. and ditto for range trading.

[Tradewinds]

Originally Posted by MightyMouse »

What is unethical or immoral about selling an indicator or a system? It would be unethical if you bought a system and you got a blank disk. It would be unethical if it failed to enter and exit properly.

Buying or selling and indicator or a system is neutral. It's not ethical or unethical. A common mistake that people make is to automatically assign black/white - right/wrong - good/evil to something, when in reality it's just neutral until intentions and desires affect the balance of give and take.

I'm not trying to imply that the act of selling a system or indicator, in and of itself, is automatically ethical or unethical.

[Tradewinds]

Originally Posted by Mysticforex »

Without cost, there is no perceived value.

Now we are getting into the realm of how a product should be priced, marketing, value and consumer perceptions.

Personally, I now tend to buy mid-range priced, high volume products. That comes from experiences of buying high priced products, thinking that I was getting something superior, and having reliability issues with the product. Some performance products will have better performance, but break down more often.

I still need to fight the urge to buy something because it is priced higher. I tend to automatically assign a higher value to a higher price. I don't know what percentage of the population does that, but it is a real phenomena.

If a money back guarantee was going to be offered by the seller of a system or indicator, the cost would need to factor in how many returns would be generated. Many people buy junk, and then they never return it when it breaks. Some businesses probably know this, and sell junk, knowing that many people will never ask for their money back.

Then there are situations where the consumer is promised some compensation, and it never gets delivered. If the product cost $15 dollars, and it would take 40 hours trying to get your money back, most people just "write-off" the $15 as a loss. If they could make $2,000 in 40 hours of work, but they are only going to get $15 dollars back for 40 hours of work, then they won't bother trying to get their money back.

So, a seller of an indicator could price their product very cheaply, then make it almost impossible to get your money back.

[MightyMouse]

Originally Posted by Tradewinds »

Buying or selling and indicator or a system is neutral. It's not ethical or unethical. A common mistake that people make is to automatically assign black/white - right/wrong - good/evil to something, when in reality it's just neutral until intentions and desires affect the balance of give and take.

I'm not trying to imply that the act of selling a system or indicator, in and of itself, is automatically ethical or unethical.

Well, If I sell you an indicator and I tell you that it can help you make money and you fail to make money with it, then is that my fault and am I unethical for telling you that it can help you make money?

If you purchase a Porsche because you thought it would help you get women and you fail to increase your consumption of women, is that the car's fault?

You do not have to answer these. The point is that the trader at some point has to take responsibility for whether he makes money or not.

MM

[Tradewinds]

Originally Posted by MightyMouse »

But the trader is the fool if he thinks he is going to turn the market into a personal ATM.

Hopefully scientist will find the "fool" gene and foolishness can be breed out of human beings. Until that happens, the inferior humans with the predominant fool gene, will need to learn from pain and hardship.

[Tradewinds]

Originally Posted by MightyMouse »

The point is that the trader at some point has to take responsibility for whether he makes money or not.

MM

Good point. For the seller of the trading indicator to be completely transparent and honest, they would need make it very clear to the buyer what the dangers are. So there are two separate issues. The reliability of the system or indicator, and the reliability of the user of the system or indicator.