[Mr_black]

Originally Posted by Marko23 »

If one puts value to the moving average, one had to plan for Long not for Short as you did in the previous post. The trend as indicated by the indicator was up.

Did you ignore the indicator in your previous post?

MA's are lagging PA is leading ....you cannot trade the past you trade now and look the near future...in this sample first sign for trend change was HL >>>>HH trend change >>>>>PB(pullback) my entry>>>hh my exit

[Marko23]

Originally Posted by Mr_black »

MA's are lagging PA is leading ....you cannot trade the past you trade now and look the near future...in this sample first sign for trend change was HL >>>>HH trend change >>>>>PB(pullback) my entry>>>hh my exit

Thanks, I only wanted your confirmation that the moving average is redundant and can be misleading.

[DugDug]

Thalestrader - also to any others who post- .please keep up the good work, as even if its not instantaneous real time, its close enough, the trolls etc unfortunately have done their job, and got you heated up.
The fact that people post information for FREE, and share knowledge is fantastic as it is. Nothing is sold.... in this heartless world of finance that we live in it makes one get all gooey.
I always figure these trolls just to be miserable psychopaths.... I laugh at them and their unhappy existence and think they are a waste of oxygen. Hopefully the moderators can do something.

Hell..... what is real time? if you are trading off a tick chart, then forget it....you dont have the time. I trade with discretion on a number of impulsive trades that have no rhyme or reason, its just sometimes along the line of "its in a downtrend, I'll just short it and look to buy it back a few ticks lower" - these are pointless to post as they are uneducational, and I dont have the time.
I can post some charts as I use 5mins to get myself into longer term trades, but I may not do many trades and most of them are losers.... not great for the ego posting these all the time, its bad enough loosing the money. And if I miss posting the start of the one winner out of 10, and then say "well I am riding a short AUDUSD", no one will believe me.
Its kind of a loose loose situation.
But so what..... I hope I will still post them here and at least show "What not to do" 9 times out of ten.
And if they are of no use then feel free to tell me to bugger off.
......................... ......
Also thanks for the heads up re the syntax for the posting of charts I will amend to make things easier to read the chart.

One other thing that could be of great help in the same regard is something of a help file that maybe ideally could be set up, that shows the ideal context to post charts, and the quick way to cut and paste or post a chart, as Marko says it kinda of distracts sometimes.
eg; I use Multicharts, but I cant seem to be able to paste direct to a reply here, i need to save the file, reload it etc;
If someone had a quicker faster way of doing it then great, and people could add to it for the various systems -
Unfortunately I have no real idea of how to do this in any easy form.

[thalestrader]

Originally Posted by forrestang »

... but I think the problems initially had with Mr. Black's posts where this series I am showing below

I see no problem with this series of charts. I think it is quite apparent what is being communicated, don't you? Now, if someone were to post a random chart with no annotations and having nothing to do with the approach to trading price action we are pursuing here, then I could understand if you found fault with that poster. I have called a few posters out for just such a thing here since this thread began.

But my opinion of the series of charts posted by Mr. Black is this: You could print those out, hang them in your office, and look at them everyday before you trade, and you would be better prepared to identify the price action for which you are looking. That should be the ultimate criteria: Is the posted chart helpful to those learning to trade this approach? I think, in the case of Mr. Black's charts, the answer is an unequivocal yes.

Do you really think that he took the time to annotate his charts, snap a pic, log in to TL, find this thread, and post them to show off or to make others feel bad? Or does it make more sense to assume he was posting something that he thought represented a good example of how to apply this method and might therefore prove helpful to others?

I do not understand this notion that folks are somehow "cherry picking" winning trades to post. First of all, I have posted my share of losing trades. But what would I care with respect to this forum if every trade I posted resulted in a loss? Should I feel embarassed? Should Mr. Black feel embarrassed if he posts a losing trade? Marko? patrader? Why would any of us care whether the TL community knows we made a losing effort? Do you know us? Are you going to call us at home and harass us? Tease our children because daddy posted a losing effort?

I think many here would do him or herself a big favor if each would stop worrying about whether or not someone else posted a chart fast enough or whether or not someone else is demo trading, paper trading, and just taking notes, or trading live with real cash, and worry about where he or she wants to be and how he or she is going to get there. I suspect that hanging out in live trading chats with bitter naysayers is not conducive to getting to that place.

I know where I am. I know how I got here. It sucked. It took too darn long. I lost too much money. I spent too much on gurus and systems and software. Now, you can do it like I did and struggle and spend, or you could settle down, study this thread, and be glad for what has been shared here. If someone had put together this type of information and effort for me when I was starting out, my journey to the place where I am now would have been much quicker, easier, pleasant, and cost a whole lot less.

Let us not let our egos and the shriveled souls of the trolls ruin what is without a doubt the best trading thread in the best trading forum on the net.

Best Wishes,

Thales

[thalestrader]

Originally Posted by Mr_black »

forrestang the reason for posting the small EUR/USD chart was to show the current trend , price was making LH, LL for past 4 day's You asked me a ? how to use 123 setup and here is the answer take 123's only with trend direction....

I thought your charts were both appropriate and instructive. You, Marko, and patrader have added a lot of value to this thread, and I hope each of you continue to participate no matter what anyone else has to say to or about us. Each of you post very few words, but your charts, in my opinion, speak loudly to any willing to listen.

Best Wishes,

Thales

[Gabe2004]

I wanted to post right after the first fire exchange between the troll and Thales but figured that ignoring the troll would be the best option and it seemed to have worked for a while until Thales had a post on the rating issue.
As of this writing the rating has gone up to 4.76
May I ask you Thales why did you start this thread?
If the idea was to help others than you could stop at any time that you feel that your effort are not respected.
If it had some ego motives (to prove that you have made it) than I believe you have done that.
If it was to improve your trading than I hope it did eventhough it seems that your knowledge and experience far surpasses that of all the others here (those who demonstrated their knowledge that is).

Whatever the reason, one should respect this and any other thread.

Those who have noticed the little friction Thales and I encountered a while back will also notice that I am still here.

Anyone who puts in the extraordinary time required to maintain a thread - as Thales had - deserves at least some common courtesy.
Some people don't know the meaning of the word Courtesy. A thread moderator should take care of them but we should be careful where we draw the line.

I have proved in the past that I am not a brown noser but I would like to thank Thales for his time and sharing of his knowledge.

I hope that this thread will go back to its old self soon.

Gabe

[thalestrader]

Originally Posted by Marko23 »

Posting Live Trades in Real Time

As I look back over this week I find this a rather strong demand... Personally I feel a special disadvantage from posting: often it gets me out of "the flow"

I hear you Marko. We just shall do the best we can, and if it isn't good enough for some, let them move on, hopefully keeping their mouth shut as they scroll on by.

My grandmom used to say "the world is full of people to whom you give them all they could ask for on a silver platter, and still they b***ch that isn't gold." I think there are some who have no idea the Herculean effort it is to annotate a chart and post the pic all while trying to manage open positions and get orders off.

Originally Posted by Marko23 »

... but how do I find time to write a "Triggered" message to the thread and not loose context during that observation?

One more question: what is your "mental timescale" to discriminate between these inner extrema?
Prices flows, the tick chart is no solution to this question. For me, the mental timescale depends on average range of 15m bars..

I try to post the charts before the trade triggers. Often I get it posted well before the trade triggers. If it is a market I am actually trading, then I won't post the update until the initial skirmish at entry is over. Also, one of the benefits of using the line annotations (blue = entry, red = stop loss, green = profit targets) is that there is no obligation on my part to update the trade. Anyone who sees the very first pic - whether it was snapped before, at, or soon after entry, has all the information to follow along at home on his or her charts.

As far as the "mental time scale," I know exactly what you mean, but I have never thought consciously of it, and thus I never have tried to quantify it. I would say you that you and I are in sync in that the current visble range of the average 15 M bar is the crux of what governs these judgments. But how to explain it? I honestly do not know. Linda Raschke used to say that there are somethings that just come from experience.

I remember one interview or article where she gave the following example: Her husband was a baseball player, and when they would watch a game, he would often say things like "watch this ... he's going to throw the next pitch low and inside." And sure enough, that is what the pitcher did. Her husband could not put into words how he knew that that was the next pitch. He just had played and studied the game for so long and with such intensity, that he could recognize these "set ups." Is it not the same for us traders? she asked. And of course, the answer is yes.

Recall also Tom Baldwin's interview in Market Wizards, where he basically says that if you last long enough on the Pit floor, you will pick it up. Its like any other job or skill. SOme may pick it up better than you, and others will not do it as well. But if you do it long enough, you will achieve whatever proficiency your particular ability will allow.

So this mental timescale you mention is likely one of those things that you pick up through long observation. Of course, until you get the basics of the game, you will not get to the level at which you internalize your observations and unconsciouly convert those observations to judgements. It is an interesting concept, thanks for introducing it.

Best Wishes,

Thales

[Marko23]

Originally Posted by thalestrader »

...
I try to post the charts before the trade triggers. ...

That is a good compromise. There may be false alarms but nobody knows the future.

Thanks for your time to find the examples. They make it clearer for me.
I have this strange habit to scrutinize what was going on within my head while I was trading. That does not always help...