[Kiwi]

Originally Posted by RealDemo »

He says that the treaty wasn't in the best interests of Britain so he didn't sign. I'd really like to know what he thinks those "best interests" are?

Is it in Britains best interest to be left out of the economic decision making process of our closest neighbour?

.....I don't think you wanted to do that Dave did you.

It's always best not to waste one's time in interminable meetings that result in nothing of value.

As traders in the markets we have learned that its more valuable to spend ones time evaluating the probabilities of what could happen next and how we'd respond than to try to change the unchangeable. Britain might do well by a similar approach.

[RealDemo]

Originally Posted by Kiwi »

It's always best not to waste one's time in interminable meetings that result in nothing of value.

Oh yes I was forgetting how efficient the British government are in respect to that.

Never thought i'd back Cameron on anything but it was a great day in history for Britain
Looking forward to telling Europe to get off our backs on a regular basis

Vote UKIP they'll give you exactly what you want, as for negotiation you'll find that Britain has negociated itself out of many things it didn't agree with, Schengen being one of the major ones and the good old Maastricht treaty. Britain is a big 'opt-outer' and yet again it's 'opting out'.

Makes me wonder why they bother at all with Europe if they are so skeptical, just sink the tunnel and pull up the drawbridge, easy.

[mitsubishi]

A recent poll shows 60% of people back cameron on this one.The british people are dying to give their view on Europe (finally).My instinct is that we do not want to cut all ties with Europe at all,but we're fed up with the red tape and dictatorial attitude.Any deal in business has to be good for both parties or it's not a good deal.
In fact,we're fed up with all kinds of crap in general. I see there's a video on youtube today of a fare dodging scumbag getting thrown off the bus and the passengers all clap and cheer.
Under Tony Blairs government he'd have been arrested for daring to manhandle a 'minor' (a 'minor' being somene too young to vote but old enough to make everyones life a misery)
I guess in this new age of people power,were fast approaching the line in the sand.
We're fed up paying for banker fuck ups.Fed up of being lied to by politicians. Fed up with a culture of the world owes me a living.And we're fed up with Europe.What we want is a simple trading agreement which is all it was ever intended to be.We voted yes to the common market.We did not vote for a dictatorship run from Brussels
The tunnel is a good thing.Uncontrolled immigration into the UK is a bad thing.Unlike the beaurocrats we are not all or nothing.We want common sense and to retain the ability to decide for ourselves what is in our own interests.
As for UKIP, Nigel Farage appears to be against Cameron on this.I'm suprised about that i must admit.

[RealDemo]

'run by Europe, but not in Europe' seems to be UKIP's accusation at Cameron.

The world always seems fed up, when was that perfect time when we weren't fed up?

Sometimes we've had reason to be really fed up.

[SIUYA]

I'm fed up with getting exactly what I deserved.
I am fed up with being over paid, underworked, and a good for nothing layabout.
bring back the Empire

Best start speculating again

[mitsubishi]

Originally Posted by RealDemo »

'run by Europe, but not in Europe' seems to be UKIP's accusation at Cameron.

The world always seems fed up, when was that perfect time when we weren't fed up?

Sometimes we've had reason to be really fed up.

Well i'm disappointed with UKIP.To say we are not in Europe just isn't true is it? You know,it would be nice,just for a change if the opposition parties and media in this country could just refrain from attempting to turn a drama into a crisis,purely to satisfy their own agenda.
I'll admit that the brits are the biggest bunch of whingers the world has ever seen most of the time.They forget that should they fall on the floor with a heart attack an ambulance will be there in 7 minutes.They take it for granted that they don't get their arms hacked off for attempting to vote the wrong way.They've never had to walk 10 miles just to get water.

Yeah,there have been really good reasons to be fed up.Like the time when Abu Hamsa got on a soapbox once a week outside the mosk his own people threw him out of,to preach hatred against the country he wasn't born in,while claiming housing benefit,child benefit,disability benefit and social security all paid for by us.I guess the residents of that street which was cordoned off and protected by our police (who we pay for) were pretty fed up.And the rest of us were fed up being called racists by Tony war criminal Blair every time we objected to that,and other similar crap.
We may have been fed up but we're pretty tolerant.How many churches are there in the Middle East?
We had to rescue an english teacher from a beheading party somewhere in the Middle East because she dared to call her teddy bear mohammed.
We had to protect Salmun Rushdie from death threats from these same extremists just because he wrote a book they didn't agree with.That cost the taxpayer a lot of money.He was living in a £2 million house with armed guards.
We happily paid that bill because we actually practice what we preach ie freedom and democracy.We don't get freedom and democracy from Europe.
All the British people want is to be able to earn a living,have a roof over their heads,and not have our tolerant nature abused.We've had enough of being used as a doormat for anyone who wants to come here and abuse the freedoms we fought so hard for.
All we want is justice.We don't want to see a woman sentenced to 6 months prison for receiving a stolen T shirt in the recent riots,while people like Fred Goodwin bankrupt a major bank and walk away with a 6 figure pension.Is that too much to ask?
Stop giving us reasons to be fed up.
Is it our fault we have to deal with misguided students making bombs in their flats because we invaded Iraq when 2 million of us went on the street to protest against the 'war'
Kinda hard not to be fed up when you are ignored yet forced to pay for things you don't agree with all the time.
Most people would just get on with their lives and be happy if you just let them.
Unfortunately the last thing that beaurocrats in Brussels care about is whether you're happy or not.
Not everything that comes out of Europe is bad.The court of human rights for example.

I just think that instead of attacking Cameron,we should recognise that we now have a valuable opportunity to have a serious debate about our future regarding Europe.
They are still saying that regardless of our veto,they still intend to impose rules on the city of London.This is exactly the attitude that we can no longer tolerate.
It could well transpire that Cameron will be remembered for instigating that debate-maybe why he did it.

[RealDemo]

[mitsubishi]

Goodbye Scotland..best of luck..i really mean it. Just don't come crawlin' back to us when it all goes pear shaped.
While Farage still says it leaves us 'without a friend in the room' he appears now to state it as a fact rather than a critisicm,and welcomes the beginning of a debate and renegotiation of our ties to Europe,even hints we could leave altogether
Funny this shift in attitude, it's similar to Cleggs shift from''fully supporting the policy'' (which it transpires he had no say in) to being bitterly disappointed,,isolated blah blah

What is it about politics that causes you to be confused about what you believe in?
Boy have i heard some crapshite being spouted from the left. ''200 years of diplomacy and negotiation down the drain'' (special advisor to Tony Blair)....huh!! ...We were at war with both France and Germany at some points in this period.

I'd like to hear Labours' denial that they would have signed this piece of shit.
I'd like to hear how you remain part of a debate making suggestions etc when you already made your position clear days before..Dont tell me there was shock all around the 'without a friend room'
And don't forget it was the city of London that caused this whole crisis wasn't it? Nothing to do with them enforcing a currency/ideology on millions of people who voted No
So we fully deserve all the recriminations and vindictive threats coming our way don't we?

Which part of this insanity do they not get? The PIGSare up to their snouts in debt with no hope of growth,no way to borrow cheap money and unable to control their own economy.Italy now has an unelected banker for a president (yeah president is what it's going to be) And their solution? more debt no growth and more power over member states.
i just love this democracy don't you? I just can't understand why we aren't begging to sign on the line that is dotted.
In fact,i'm fighting a powerfull urge right now to go to Brussels and give them the shirt off my back.
I dont think this country has seen denial and self delusion on this scale since Neville Chamberbum came home waving the piece of paper Hitler wiped his arse on.

Wow,if these guys were traders they'd be on the slope of hope right now averaging down using their old grannys' savings

Just wish i could get a bet on which one of these clowns has a nervous breakdown first.
Thanks America for showing the world how to screw over millions of people for the next 2 decades.

Maybe instead of worrying ourselves over this treaty we should be busy creating a new one.We could get all the sensible countries in the world together..you know,ones that don't start illegal wars every 2 weeks and whose politicians aren't captured by a bunch of fags in the city ( i know that would actually exclude us,that would need a bit of clever drafting wouldn't it?)
Or maybe we should start building infrastructure in Africa in exchange for mineral rights like China is.Exporting a load of expertise To Africa would help our unemployment problem
In fact,why bother letting a bunch of useless politicians be involved in anything? Maybe from now on we should do everything ourselves and keep the tax.
I vote we send Alan Sugar on any further discussion with Europe as he says:
'' i don't like liars.I i dont like bullshitters,and i don't like asslickers''
There wouldn't be a single dragon in the den willing to invest a penny in this disaster