[geithner]

YM- Dow Emini Futures contract Exchang e ECBOT

I am hoping someone can clarify the answer to this question. Can other traders-mainly the big money movers like bank floor traders etc see you stops in this electronic market. The reason I ask is I have two separate brokerage accounts and I have been given two different answers to this question. IB tells me the stops rest on a closed server and no one else can see your stops. Mirus Futures tells me they can see your resting stops.

You know the drill- it sure's seems like these bums can see your stops. I put a buy stop and the market moves up and triggers the stop and reverses right to the tick and I have egg in my face. I can't tell you how many times my stops are hit right at key turning points for the market. I think I should trade two accounts. Trade the one account with one contract where my stops are getting picked off and do exactly the opposite in the 2nd account with twice as many contracts- then I am sure to win a bundle of money.

LOL

[brownsfan019]

'They' are not looking for your 1 contract stop loss order and then reversing it once they grab your 1 contract. 'They' do however look to find clusters of easy to trigger stops, so if you are getting stopped often then you have a system design issue NOT a paranoid, can they see me issue.

[Kiwi]

If they are getting your stops then they are not the bums. They are simply smarter than you and the money is flowing from you to them.

[uexkuell]

Originally Posted by geithner »

IB tells me the stops rest on a closed server and no one else can see your stops. Mirus Futures tells me they can see your resting stops.

Both may be right.
As far as I remember IB kind of "buffers" stops and does not transmit them to the exchanges in any case.
Mirus is handling things much more directly and your stop will appear in the DOM.

Originally Posted by geithner »

Can other traders-mainly the big money movers like bank floor traders etc see you stops in this electronic market.

In my view very much of trading is just about mass psychology:
The big / well informed players have several means of knowing where the weak hands have their stops and they are using this knowledge to shake them out of their positions.

The problem is just that as long as a trader is behaving like most of the others it is easy to hit him.
It's hard to get psychologically out of the main stream.

One possible measure is to take much time to develop a trading approach, test it in realtime in paper trading until it's consistenly working and stick to it to the point when it goes to real money.

[BlowFish]

This might be of interest

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en...?f=orderTypes#

By default IB only simulates an order if the exchange does not support it natively. I think CBoT supports stop and stop limit orders natively.

[littlefish]

Originally Posted by geithner »

You know the drill- it sure's seems like

I've gone through a phase of thinking the very same thing too, yet try this for an alternate line of thinking.

If the market knows the trend has very recently turned down. The only reason it would break a mini high in a down trend would be because somebody was buying when they shouldn't have been.

Breaking that mini high would be like a man who is already exhausted from running up a hill, making the conscious decision to meet a southbound train head on who's name is supply.

[ektrader]

Originally Posted by geithner »

YM- Dow Emini Futures contract Exchang e ECBOT

I am hoping someone can clarify the answer to this question. Can other traders-mainly the big money movers like bank floor traders etc see you stops in this electronic market. The reason I ask is I have two separate brokerage accounts and I have been given two different answers to this question. IB tells me the stops rest on a closed server and no one else can see your stops. Mirus Futures tells me they can see your resting stops.

You know the drill- it sure's seems like these bums can see your stops. I put a buy stop and the market moves up and triggers the stop and reverses right to the tick and I have egg in my face. I can't tell you how many times my stops are hit right at key turning points for the market. I think I should trade two accounts. Trade the one account with one contract where my stops are getting picked off and do exactly the opposite in the 2nd account with twice as many contracts- then I am sure to win a bundle of money.

LOL

They are not after your (1) or (2) little contracts. The people who make markets are particularly smart and they understand support and resistance just like you and I, even without the use of an order book. They know where the stops are most likely hanging around at. They will only run stops when they are confident the market is reversing anyway. The key is placing your stops beyond the lowest low or highest high of your entry point. Usually the demand or supply will be too high at these points and the orders will be matched so it would be hard to hit your stop. If it does, it's because the market is most likely reversing anyway so you should be happy you got stopped out. I hope this helps.

Happy trading and Good Luck

[littlefish]

Originally Posted by geithner »

I put a buy stop and the market moves up and triggers the stop and reverses right to the tick and I have egg in my face. I can't tell you how many times my stops are hit right at key turning points for the market.

Ok, today I think I see a very fine example (two actually, mirror images) of what you are talking about in the march NQ one minute. Particularly where I placed the green arrow. It breaks this low in this uptrend to the tick and reverses.

I'm certainly no master at this or anything, but if I myself take a long hard look at this. I see no conspiracy at all. Simply price seeking it's level and reversing.