[brownsfan019]

Originally Posted by MightyMouse »

I need to respectfully disagree with your second point which is probably more accurate if you are a position trader who holds trades for weeks or months where you might chew on a decision overnight to decide whether you should sell, etc and are not bothered by the daily or weekly price fluctuations. But, because of the competiveness of the intraday markets, successfully taking intraday short term trades in one market on a consistent basis is very difficult. Trying to do it in multiple markets is suicide. In sim you are playing something similar to a video game and it’s great to learn that way. But, in live trading you are trading other traders who eat, sleep, and breath the oil market, S&P, Euro, etc and will eat you alive if you do not eat, sleep, and breath that particular market and get on the wrong side of their trade. Their behavior is nothing short of predatory and I would strongly recommend that people master one market especially if you are new to short term futures trading.

Guess we'll disagree MM on that one then. I'm posting blotters showing that it can in fact be done.

How about you? Care to show how it looks perfecting 1 market? Or just an observer? B/c I believe we've yet to see 1 blotter from you demonstrating what you are claiming is the only way to trade...




I find it humorous when people think that their one opinion is the only truth out there. As you can see in my posts, I'm usually pretty good at saying 'IMO' or 'this is what works for me' etc. THE FACT IS THAT THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG WAY TO TRADE. WHAT WORKS FOR YOU MAY NOT WORK FOR OTHERS. AND THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE RIGHT AND THEY ARE WRONG.

There are many, many ways to trade and everyone eventually finds what works for them. And if it works for YOU then it's PERFECT for YOU even if other people would claim it's 'suicide'.

See, what you're failing to grasp MM is that you can in fact master 1-2 predictable setups and then exploit those over multiple markets. I know that trading multiple markets may be daunting to some and most 'gurus' w/ books, newsletters, etc spit out the same rhetoric as you did here, but it's nonsense. Perhaps the edge I'm exploiting depends on certain conditions to be met and those conditions are typically met 1-2 times per day, per market... why just trade 1 then when I can trade more and make more?

Anyways, I'm showing that it can be done daily w/ consistent results. Do you plan to show what it looks like when focusing on 1 market and only 1 market? You'll find that in this thread, it's not just talk. This is the one thread here where people post blotters, which you've yet to do. As they say - talk is cheap. Show me the $.

[MightyMouse]

[QUOTE=brownsfan019;76942]Guess we'll disagree MM on that one then. I'm posting blotters showing that it can in fact be done.

How about you? Care to show how it looks perfecting 1 market? Or just an observer? B/c I believe we've yet to see 1 blotter from you demonstrating what you are claiming is the only way to trade...




I find it humorous when people think that their one opinion is the only truth out there. As you can see in my posts, I'm usually pretty good at saying 'IMO' or 'this is what works for me' etc. THE FACT IS THAT THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG WAY TO TRADE. WHAT WORKS FOR YOU MAY NOT WORK FOR OTHERS. AND THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE RIGHT AND THEY ARE WRONG.

There are many, many ways to trade and everyone eventually finds what works for them. And if it works for YOU then it's PERFECT for YOU even if other people would claim it's 'suicide'.

See, what you're failing to grasp MM is that you can in fact master 1-2 predictable setups and then exploit those over multiple markets. I know that trading multiple markets may be daunting to some and most 'gurus' w/ books, newsletters, etc spit out the same rhetoric as you did here, but it's nonsense. Perhaps the edge I'm exploiting depends on certain conditions to be met and those conditions are typically met 1-2 times per day, per market... why just trade 1 then when I can trade more and make more?

Anyways, I'm showing that it can be done daily w/ consistent results. Do you plan to show what it looks like when focusing on 1 market and only 1 market? You'll find that in this thread, it's not just talk. This is the one thread here where people post blotters, which you've yet to do. As they say - talk is cheap. Show me the $.

[/QUOTE

Brownsfan,

I have been trading futures since 2/08. I am a new trader. At this point I am break even consistently and happy to be breakeven; however, I am down since I began. It’s hard to express an opinion without sounding like you know it all, but I assure you that I do not know all about trading. But, I do know what dangerous advice is for a new trader who is trading live.

I do not know who you are, but if your set up is capable of capturing profits from multiple markets consistently, then you are 1 in a billion which means few can could achieve such results. Suggesting that any trader can duplicate the results that so few can do is dangerous advice. Unless you were to provide us with the magical setup that you have that we are too dumb to uncover on our own. My opinion, therefore, is simply stated to offer balance for newer traders who may read the thread, because most traders will fail if they listen to your opinion on this matter. If you have been trading for so long, then you should know this as fact.

It would be silly for me to post a daily blotter since most days are miniscule losses, breakeven, or small gains, and then the occasional homerun. I calculate my win/loss ratio differently, but if I calculate it the way everyone else does, it’s about 40%. If I calculate it my way, my percentage winners are a lot less. Yesterday I lost $25, Thursday I was out of town, Wednesday, I lost $37.5. Tuesday, I lost 87.50, Monday, I was even. These are brutally honest results of live trading. I don’t lose everyday but it just so happens that that is how the week played out. Once agin, I am down since I have began trading futures and am breakeven since March. So, I have no pie in the sky to offer anyone and I would suggest that a new guy should hope to be breakeven in 2 years. Realism.

If anyone were interested, I could duplicate these results for them live every single day I trade. I have zero fear of losing money in the presence of others. I do not think that anyone posting spectacular results on this thread would dare make the same offer because as we all know if you state live that you are entering a long position at level A with a stop at level B and a target at level C it is incredibly difficult to come close to producing results that are consistent with the results on the blotters posted here no matter how long you have been trading. There is only one way to prove me wrong on the above, all other ways are as you say “cheap talk.”

[brownsfan019]

MM - let me share this w/ you then...

1) I've been trading for about 8 yrs or so now. I've been through the ups/downs and now I'm sharing my experiences here.
2) I know that you've been taught via books, blogs, etc that the way to trade is focus on 1 market and only 1 market. I was there too, just like you are now. After all those years, my focus went from1 market to 1 setup (and trade multiple markets). When I did that, my equity curve changed dramatically.

So I know what the standards or rules of thumb taught out there are, but there also must be a reason why many new traders fail and don't survive this business, yet here I am still doing it after all these years. Maybe, just maybe, I've been there, done that and found a few things that work.

If you don't keep an open mind when you first start trading and learning this business, you'll have a hard time succeeding IMO. Keep in mind that when you read those books, newsletters, seminars, etc. that they are profiting by selling you some item... rarely do they offer anything of substance that can make an impact on your trading.

And no offense, but I don't think a trader that is break-even and trying to find their way should be criticizing someone that makes a consistent profit (proven throughout this thread) and is happy to share experiences here with all. Instead of being so quick to call something 'suicide' maybe take it in and think about it. And if it doesn't make sense now, that's not surprising, but maybe down the road something might hit you.

Like I said though, there is no perfect 1 and only 1 way to trade to make money at this business. There will be plenty of people that think the way you trade is foolish and silly. That means nothing if it works for you and makes you money. It's all about the $$$$. That's it. That's how we keep score here. If you are making it, then it really doesn't matter what other people say. If you aren't making it, maybe listen to those that are... food for thought.

[Dinerotrader]

This thread isn't really for people like MM. Most of us are past questioning each other's trading ability and just having useful interaction.

Below are the reasons for posting here as Brownfan said. Stick with those and don't worry about protecting other traders from reading this thread or worrying about how many losses anyone is posting. There is a good "ignore function" on this forum so you don't have to worry about the daily postings here.

Now back to the P/L thread.

Reasons to post here:

FOR YOU
Create a place where you are accountable
Get feedback on your trades, progress, etc
If you do want to post charts, you will probably get feedback on these as well
Occasionally you'll get a PM from a new person that says 'Thanks, you've give me some ideas or given me drive to do this'

FOR OTHERS
Show those new to trading it can in fact be done
Show that there's many ways to make money in trading (by seeing a variety of blotters from people posting here)

[subterfuge]

Im gonna join this thread, starting with Fridays results as it was a rare winning day!
8 points on the ES (im concentrating soley on the ES at the moment)
We can expect lots of losses next week to slap me back to realilty!!

[MightyMouse]

Originally Posted by brownsfan019 »

MM - let me share this w/ you then...

1) I've been trading for about 8 yrs or so now. I've been through the ups/downs and now I'm sharing my experiences here.
2) I know that you've been taught via books, blogs, etc that the way to trade is focus on 1 market and only 1 market. I was there too, just like you are now. After all those years, my focus went from1 market to 1 setup (and trade multiple markets). When I did that, my equity curve changed dramatically.

So I know what the standards or rules of thumb taught out there are, but there also must be a reason why many new traders fail and don't survive this business, yet here I am still doing it after all these years. Maybe, just maybe, I've been there, done that and found a few things that work.

If you don't keep an open mind when you first start trading and learning this business, you'll have a hard time succeeding IMO. Keep in mind that when you read those books, newsletters, seminars, etc. that they are profiting by selling you some item... rarely do they offer anything of substance that can make an impact on your trading.

And no offense, but I don't think a trader that is break-even and trying to find their way should be criticizing someone that makes a consistent profit (proven throughout this thread) and is happy to share experiences here with all. Instead of being so quick to call something 'suicide' maybe take it in and think about it. And if it doesn't make sense now, that's not surprising, but maybe down the road something might hit you.

Like I said though, there is no perfect 1 and only 1 way to trade to make money at this business. There will be plenty of people that think the way you trade is foolish and silly. That means nothing if it works for you and makes you money. It's all about the $$$$. That's it. That's how we keep score here. If you are making it, then it really doesn't matter what other people say. If you aren't making it, maybe listen to those that are... food for thought.

Once again, I was simply adding balance for newer traders. It appears, however, that balance isn’t welcome. If new guys want to believe that they can successfully take short term trades in multiple markets trading live, go for it. You’ll be part of the majority very quickly.

I am breakeven because I am honest. I could certainly post all type of fun results, but I do not see how that would help me and it would certainly hurt someone else who is trying out trading and seeing that they can’t even come close to producing my fake results. That might lead to a false sense of inferiority on their part as a trader. As I stated, I will be more than happy to demonstrate live that my results are what they are. I reiterate that no one posting spectacular results would dare take me up on my offer to verify their results. So, you guys will all be better traders than me as long as you keep posting great results and no one takes me up on my offer. And, you have carte blanche to continue discrediting my statements because I was honest.

Brownsfan, I am, once again, in no way saying that my way is the only way and that I have it all figured out. The fact that you are suggesting that your view is better because you have been trading longer, etc tells me that you are dealing from a me vs you perspective. My only perspective here is what is good advice for newer traders to be reading. I know there are many ways to skin a cat. I am merely offering newer traders a different view that may appeal to them. It is not me against you. Understand the spirit of my comments.

You blew up accounts learning, right? Apparently you had the ability to replenish those accounts, or you wouldn’t be trading. What if someone doesn’t have the ability to replenish multiple accounts? Or, if they blow up an account and get discouraged, then what? Do you see why I suggest that it could be suicide?

[sevensa]

Originally Posted by MightyMouse »

Once again, I was simply adding balance for newer traders. It appears, however, that balance isn’t welcome. If new guys want to believe that they can successfully take short term trades in multiple markets trading live, go for it. You’ll be part of the majority very quickly.

I am breakeven because I am honest. I could certainly post all type of fun results, but I do not see how that would help me and it would certainly hurt someone else who is trying out trading and seeing that they can’t even come close to producing my fake results. That might lead to a false sense of inferiority on their part as a trader. As I stated, I will be more than happy to demonstrate live that my results are what they are. I reiterate that no one posting spectacular results would dare take me up on my offer to verify their results. So, you guys will all be better traders than me as long as you keep posting great results and no one takes me up on my offer. And, you have carte blanche to continue discrediting my statements because I was honest.

Brownsfan, I am, once again, in no way saying that my way is the only way and that I have it all figured out. The fact that you are suggesting that your view is better because you have been trading longer, etc tells me that you are dealing from a me vs you perspective. My only perspective here is what is good advice for newer traders to be reading. I know there are many ways to skin a cat. I am merely offering newer traders a different view that may appeal to them. It is not me against you. Understand the spirit of my comments.

You blew up accounts learning, right? Apparently you had the ability to replenish those accounts, or you wouldn’t be trading. What if someone doesn’t have the ability to replenish multiple accounts? Or, if they blow up an account and get discouraged, then what? Do you see why I suggest that it could be suicide?

I think the bottom line is that you have been doing this for two years and is still not profitable, but yet you think your believes about trading are correct. If after two years you are still breakeven and you do not change what you are doing and believing to be correct, you will still be breakeven after another two years.

If I am a new trader and I have to decide whos viewpoints and believes I am going to pay attention to and have to chose between between someone who has demonstrated over and over that he know what he is talking about and is profitable, or between someone who admits that he is not profitable, then this is a no brainer.

I am not sure what other viewpoint you think you are giving to newer traders? Your viewpoints are that you disagree with someone's who is profitable, but yet you are not profitable yourself following your own advice and view. Why do you think new traders will find this appealing?

[MightyMouse]

Originally Posted by sevensa »

I think the bottom line is that you have been doing this for two years and is still not profitable, but yet you think your believes about trading are correct. If after two years you are still breakeven and you do not change what you are doing and believing to be correct, you will still be breakeven after another two years.

If I am a new trader and I have to decide whos viewpoints and believes I am going to pay attention to and have to chose between between someone who has demonstrated over and over that he know what he is talking about and is profitable, or between someone who admits that he is not profitable, then this is a no brainer.

I am not sure what other viewpoint you think you are giving to newer traders? Your viewpoints are that you disagree with someone's who is profitable, but yet you are not profitable yourself following your own advice and view. Why do you think new traders will find this appealing?

Dude,

Unfortunately, that is the deficit I face because I am honest with my results. I am a breakeven trader because I have stated such; they are good traders because they post spectacular results here. I will prove live that I am what I say I am. Will they prove that they are what they are? Do not count on it. If they are unwilling to verify that they can actually produce those results, do you still want to believe it?

They really have no right to discredit me because of my results unless they are willing to verify live that they can produce these results. I promise you they will not. Doesn’t the silence on this issue tell you something?

I started out losing like a lot of traders do and I am basically breakeven since March of 09. I might be in the same position in 2 years, I might lose money again, or I might be ahead. A good trader can have flat YEARS, but you do not want to hear that because that doesn’t fulfill the fantasy promoted by many about trading. Do not take my word for it; research it on your own. Do you have any idea of what a decent rate of return is for a trader? Do you know what an awesome rate of return is for a trader? Research these on your own. You will be shocked to learn. I am not going to tell you because I am a breakeven trader and not credible.

Do not for a moment think that breaking even is not good. Statistically, I trade better than something like 90% of all traders. Do not be naïve. This is harder than you think. Unfortunately, doing well in this business can mean that you are not losing money. Hope, that you have figured out how to not lose money in the markets in about a year, but don’t take my word for it because I am only a breakeven trader and not credible.

Why is what I say appealing? It may not be appealing. Apparently, new trader prudence is completely against the grain in this thread.