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mitsubishi

Beyond Taylor

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Well...I am definetely getting sheared...and led to the slaughter this morning with taylor trading. There were several opportunties to have made hundreds scalping (1000.00 or more) but i am trying my best to just follow taylors rules to make it a valid test. It is tough to hold through drawn downs.

 

My positions:

 

1) I am long 5 contracts from yesterday at 1682.50 buying 5 on a Higher Bottom (buy day for the complete session as yeterday 9-10 was a buy day for the complete session near end of the session). Taylor says that HB are usually profitable. So far today that position may have been up a couple hundred dollars but quickly went into a drawndown.

 

2) then today 9-11 is a buy day for the RTH and since prices has been within the low end envelope of prices and being a buy day...with projected low made first ....i went long another 5 contracts for the RTH SESSION a 1681.50. That too is presently under water.

 

Bottom line i am long 10 contracts today...average price 1682.00. It at this moment 45 minutes into RTH not looking too good. If we don't get a reversal soon then the whole thing could collapse...and head south.

 

At this point in the experiment it appears to me that taylor methodogy for daytrading the indexes would be better served mixing it with some scalping. I say this because yesterday my position was up 500 or better and this morning at one point up 250 or so. That is i had the opportunity to grab those profits and jest looked at them and let them come and go hanging in there for the taylor trade.

 

Boy now i am really getting chopped up..will soon be in the stew bucket ...just under 1 hour into the RTH but a little buying just came in...maybe...it will head back up but to be honest it ain't looking good. At this moment under water 1750.00

Edited by Patuca

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Finally i see a little support and buying at the 1678 area.. Maybe things will ge better....who knows?...mr taylor must be dead ( may he rest in peace) by now and ole windbag WHY? Is old and keeping to himself...so we are on our own...

 

How is it going mits with the spx?

 

Patuca aka Taylor Bigtime Loser

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" Taylor says that HB are usually profitable"

 

I like these statements.....like in Elliott......usually it goes there........until it doesn't and then the drawdown is big:angry:

oh that is good :rofl:n:rofl: :rofl:

Guess what? i am back to breakeven..should i dump the 10 lots or hang in there for the taylor profits? Think i will hang in there. If i were scalping i would have dumped them long ago....for a profit...but we ain't scalping are we?

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As a scalper i would be flat right now with $1700 in the money bag right now ..well about 2 or 3 minutes ago..i have to keep reminding myself i aint scalping...

 

Back to painting and lets see if i can manage to give back that profit....

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Mits are you doing anything with the spx or just watching it today?

 

This is my view so far,based on your cycle,though the potential opportunities are there whether a trader had the same labelled cycle or no cycle.For me i see no advantage in labelling the days and giving myself an added expectation bias.When the market makes it's early move you have simple choices to make dependng on if you have an existing trade or not,how you read the market at present and considering the "extrinsic" factors re context and details of your trading method.

taylor.thumb.gif.e25d27f032d4bdceccc03460c7525908.gif

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I decided a few minutes ago to get out the complete position with a $2000.00 profit. Probably a mistake but i have other things to do today and am tired of waiting and can't watch this any longer.

 

 

Here is a snapshot of the trades today. I had five lots from yesterday (bot yesterday) then bought 5 this morning, then just sold all 10.

 

When i get time i'll send yesterdays report and some comments..

 

I am done taylor trading today.

 

Patuca

image.jpg.741e989f898ab4e1992e2bbf6b754d96.jpg

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I decided a few minutes ago to get out the complete position with a $2000.00 profit. Probably a mistake but i have other things to do today and am tired of waiting and can't watch this any longer.

 

 

Here is a snapshot of the trades today. I had five lots from yesterday (bot yesterday) then bought 5 this morning, then just sold all 10.

 

When i get time i'll send yesterdays report and some comments..

 

I am done taylor trading today.

 

Patuca

 

impressive.......remind me againg how much were you down at one point today? :).....congrats

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impressive.......remind me againg how much were you down at one point today? :).....congrats

Thanks,...but remember now this is live sim trading, not real money. With real money probally be a tick or two less but that is really nothing in taylors scheme of things.

 

My position entry ....averaged for the 10 lots was 1682.00 and my actual risk today was 4.25 points (1677.75). Profit was 4 points so it was a miserable RR RATIO. It should have been held longer. I just got back in and see the market has made a high of 1689.75. I just had other things to do and do not like leaving a trade unattended so i just decided to grab what the market was giving me and go on about my business. I said it was probally a mistake when i decided this and i now see a few hours later it was indeed a mistake.

 

At least the taylor trade worked even for a jack$ass like me. Lets see if i can manage to give it all back tomm :haha: :haha:

 

I will post numbers for tomm 9-12 sometime tonight..if i can..i have been outworking today in this terrible alabama heat and am not feeling well..if for some reason i can't post numbers tonight i will try and have them posted before the open of the RTH.

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Thanks,...but remember now this is live sim trading, not real money. With real money probally be a tick or two less but that is really nothing in taylors scheme of things.

 

My position entry ....averaged for the 10 lots was 1682.00 and my actual risk today was 4.25 points (1677.75). Profit was 4 points so it was a miserable RR RATIO. It should have been held longer. I just got back in and see the market has made a high of 1689.75. I just had other things to do and do not like leaving a trade unattended so i just decided to grab what the market was giving me and go on about my business. I said it was probally a mistake when i decided this and i now see a few hours later it was indeed a mistake.

 

At least the taylor trade worked even for a jack$ass like me. Lets see if i can manage to give it all back tomm :haha: :haha:

 

I will post numbers for tomm 9-12 sometime tonight..if i can..i have been outworking today in this terrible alabama heat and am not feeling well..if for some reason i can't post numbers tonight i will try and have them posted before the open of the RTH.

 

indeed not a good rr ratio, but if the trade worked, then what the heck.......I still have much to read from behind in this post to be able to keep the pace with what you guys are doing here.....

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Here are the numbers for tomm 9-12-2013

 

RTH Session

SELL DAY

High End - 1697.00 -1702.00

Low End - 1682.00 - 1687.25

 

Complete Session

Tomm would be a SS day but was recycled and becomes a BUY day.

High End 1698.50 - 1704.00

Low End 1680.00 - 1685.00

 

 

For tactics to be used read Patucas posts #629 for BUY day and Patucas posts #598 for SELL day tactics.

 

FOR INFORMATION ONLY NOT FOR REALTRADING

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A little recap here. 9-10 was a BUY DAY for the complete session (i.e. day and overnight). See Patuca's post #629. For the RTH session 9-10 was a SHORT SELL DAY. See post #628.

 

I shorted the RTH 5 contracts but forgot to adjust the brackets and they were set for a stop loss of 1 point and a Profit Target of one point for scalping. In that first big jerk down bars 10:25 to10:45 is where I shorted thinking the decline had started for the RTH SHORT SELL DAY. Since my brackets were set for scalping at one pt (and i didn't realize it) i immedately made the point and was out with a $250.00 gain. I simply entered the market again 5 short on a bounce back up and by the end of the day closed out with a loss of $875.00 on that last 5 lots AS THE ANTICIPATED DECLINE NEVER CAME.

 

Since no decline came and it was a BUY DAY for the Complete Session i went long 5 contracts to hold overnight and sell on the next day 9-11 which would be a SELL DAY for the Complete Session. Taylor calls this buying a higher bottom and he says it it usually profitable. So i ended 9-10 with a $875.00 loss and long 5 contracts to sell the next day.

 

The next day 9-11 i bought an additional 5 contracts for the RTH sessionsoon after the open (As 9-11 was a BUY DAY for the RTH session). Then i sold all 10 contracts for a $2000.00 gain on same day i.e. 9-11. I sold too soon even though I made $2000.00. I had other things to do and just could not keep watching the markets. The ES ended up trading very close to the high end envelope numbers. I would have made alot more. Normally, i should have sold on 9-11 the 5 contracts purchased on 9-10 and held the other 5 purchased on 9-11 until the next day 9-12 which would be a Sell day. A Sell day is a day to sell longs aquired on a Buy day. This normal procedure for a taylor long trade made on a buy day. You exit the longs the next day. You can exit them the same day like i did but generally you will get a bigger gain waiting to sell out on the next day especially if it appears like the market will close high on the day of the long purchase. But i just could not watch The markets so decided to get out completely.

 

You can look at the report attached for 9-10 to see all the purchases and sells made on that day. I have already posted the report for 9-11 buys and sells and on it you can see where i bot an additional the 5 lots thus making 10 lots total and sold out all 10 on 9-11. Both reports are self explanatory.

 

Normal procedure for DAY TRADING taylor is to hold longs, overnight, that were purchased on a buy day and sell them the next day. While strictly not a daytrade is it considered a day trade in Taylors scheme of things. Shorts taken on a Ss day are to be covered the same day if the decline is fast. They may be held until the next day if it appears the market creeps down ..no hurry..AND looks like it will close low on the day the short was taken. You wait until the next day (which would be a buy day) to get a little more profit since the trend was down at the close. Hwever this too is considered a daytrade. Longs taken on a buying day violation (BV) made on a sell day are always to be sold the same sell day. Shorts taken on a buy day high made first are ALWAYS to be covered the same day. No longs are taken at all on a Ss day. This is Taylors Day Trading system. His three day method is similiar but also different. I may explain it later. Then you have his trend trading system which is different from the first two. I suspect that any who read his book never realize he is actually showing three methods of trading. Right now we are only testing the DAY TRADING METHOD on the indices.

 

Remember, these trade are being taken in a live simulator not a real money account. It is an experiment to see if taylors concepts will work in todays markets such as the indices.

 

FOR INFORMATION ONLY AND NOT FOR LIVE TRADING

 

Patuca

image.jpg.263935b60764eabeed8ae082d6e45724.jpg

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Mits you reckon we are wasting our time here? I don't think many people are interested in taylor.....

 

anything that's complicated or looks that way ends up in the same direction........usually......but come on, don't let the job undone

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anything that's complicated or looks that way ends up in the same direction........usually......but come on, don't let the job undone

 

Hi TW

There used to be a feature on TL which showed how many people were viewing a thread.

It was a useful guide , but was removed for unknown reasons

Please bring it back

regards

bobc

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anything that's complicated or looks that way ends up in the same direction........usually......but come on, don't let the job undone
taylors book is complicated.. In my explanations i try and and cut to the heart of the matter. The area i see that could complicate things is all the taylor adaptations. Not that it is a bad thing..i made adaptations myself...but it seem to me that folks first need to learn the basics of taylor, as used by taylor, then build on that foundation and make the adaptations they deem necessary later on. It is kind of like football. When a team struggles, many times just going back to the basics and drilling them over and over again will correct the problems but jumping around to every new fangled play concept can add confusion and bewilderment which affects the final results on the playing field. Markets change and i am all for adaptations but some things are basic and have to be learned by rote so to speak.

 

I know this thread is to explore ideas beyond taylor and that is good AND NEEDS to be done but how can we do that if we have no clear understanding of taylor at the basic level?

 

Ole windbag WHY? Who i know personally as done alot to explain taylor at this basic level. But he is old and grippy and one never knows when he may get an inkling to contribute for a few days then he is gone...off the radar. I try and use alot of his explanations as i understand them. I would encourage posters to read his explanations on the taylor threads (as there are several) for a basic grounding.

 

It can take years to read through taylors book and pull out the concepts that WHY? explains in a clearer format.

 

Looks like we are range bound so far this morning. Breakout could go in either direction. It may be hard to actually take a position within the envelope numbers...jest have to wait to see what happens..tape showing weakness then strenght..have to see who wins out..bulls or bears..

Edited by Patuca

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Remember institutions try and manipulate the market against each other..especially in indices..usually one side eventually wins for a while but there are days where it is just back and forth.

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It is interesting that Patuca distinguishes the ES regular sessions from the ES overnight sessions. It seems that Patuca identifies a continuity with the Taylor Trading cycle from one regular ES session to the next, irrrespective of the overnight ES sessions.

 

Similarly, the implication is that if Patuca were to work with the Taylor Trading cycle for the overnight ES sessions, Patuca would presumably work with a continuity of one overnight ES session to the next, "irrespective of the regular ES sessions."

 

As I continue to ponder Patuca's methodology for the count, etc. for the ES regular session and the combination of the ES regular session + the overnight session, I notice several things.

 

1. the ES regular session count of the days could be worked with similar to the SPX = Monday through Friday from 6:30 a.m. to 1 p.m. PST or 8:30 a.m. to 4 p.m. EST

 

2. the ES regular session count of the days could be worked with differently from the SPX = Sunday through Friday

 

3. the ES regular session + the overnight session combination could be worked with similar to the SPX = Monday through Friday

 

4. the ES regular session + overnight session combination could be worked with differently from the SPX = Sunday through Friday

 

5. the ES overnight session by itself could be worked with differently from the SPX = Sunday through Friday

 

Theoretically, Patuca selected "1" and "3" for the simulation and research of the ES Taylor Trading cycle.

 

Furthermore, Patuca identified that the combination of the ES regular session + the overnight session to be a different Taylor type day than the ES regular session by itself. Patuca seems to be treating the combination of the ES regular session + the overnight session Taylor day and the ES regular session Taylor day as distinct and isolated from each other. But, it could be that the ES regular session Taylor day, for example, could impact or influence the ES regular session + the overnight session Taylor day somewhat or in some way or vice versa or not at all.

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Remember institutions try and manipulate the market against each other..especially in indices..usually one side eventually wins for a while but there are days where it is just back and forth.

 

Interesting point. The emphasis by Patuca is on the conflict between institutional traders vs. institutional traders rather than the institutional traders vs. the retail traders.

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Interesting point. The emphasis by Patuca is on the conflict between institutional traders vs. institutional traders rather than the institutional traders vs. the retail traders.

 

That is correct. In general. some exceptions. The market goes only where the institutions want to take it. Retail traders generally don't move the market until a move had been initiated by the institutions.. That is, either the bear institutions win the tug of war or the bull ones do. When the public then stampedes in mass they can move price some but a handful of retail traders just aren't going to move the markets unless they have some very deep pockets.

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