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mitsubishi

Beyond Gann

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How many of you have studied Gann and concluded he was either a conman or that he didn't tell us everything.?

Did you leave it at that and move on,or are you like me,fascinated with the idea that the future may be predictable ?

Well,since Gann is beyond me (for whatever reason) i'm going to turn the tables on him and go BEYOND GANN :)

 

Now,it is important to emphasize that you don't need to predict the future to succeed in trading,but it is interesting to test the limits of what is possible.And it is not beyond the realms of imagination to believe that some super computor in the future could do that since the market is traded by humans,and human behaviour is predictable.

For very short term predictions that is already possible.For example,anyone who is a competant trader can recognize a gap up and go day and therefore predict,correctly that the market will close up today.The earlier you can see that,the better,but on such a day you can safely ignore the trading mantra never chase the market,since it's impossible to lose money going long on such a day - and yet many will anyway:roll eyes:

Many of you will know what a typical FOMC trading day looks like.Somewhere on this site

i posted a hand drawn chart of what i thought the next FOMC day would look like-turned out to be almost a carbon copy.I'm no genius,just seen it enough times before like many of you no doubt.

So maybe the future can be predictable.I bet most of you married folk find your partner pretty damn predictable!

 

BACK TO GANN

This latest stuff i'm working on came about after studying the square of nine.

First problem was there are various versions floating around.I've seen them with the numbers in different places,running clockwise in some,anti clockwise in others,with the angles marked in different places.. then there is the hexagon,apparently,according to some,more applicable to trading the s&p500.

I've never been comfortable with lifting somebody elses' stuff wholesale anyway.I was just looking for inspiration.

I have found though that as a square root calculator it does predict future price levels but i haven't found that it matches the predicted angles beyond the first 3 and also a full cycle (360 deg). ie,the predicted future time that those price levels will print.

But this did lead me to discovering ( i think) a way of predicting reasonably well the future intraday turning points- highs/lows.

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I'm not going to give away the method for these predictions here for obvious reasons but i will post the predictions so we can see how they turn out purely for entertainment;)

 

The basic premise is that Gann was correct when he said that time and price are the same thing. That is the statement i want to prove is true.But i am not using his methods because i dont believe it works in the way he says.Others have said that he didn't demonstrate the whole theory because he wanted his students to find the missing pieces for themselves.Don't know if he told them that before they handed over 5000 dollars,but personally...i'd be pissed with my end of the deaL:confused:

 

Although i'm not giving away the method it wont cost you 5 grand here to get a few hints:)

 

First off,the method

DOES NOT predict price levels

DOES NOT tell you if a future turning point is a high or a low- only the predicted time.

That is no problem since i use my normal methods to determine those things.

 

There are numerous cycle periods people are using out there- basically if you can think of a number someone claims there is a cycle for it.But many of these don't include PRICE in the calculation.

If price and time are the same unit,they must both be included in the same equation

So my method is:

 

PRICE X SOMETHING X RATIO = TIME

 

The idea isn't to play a guessing game here with you guys,so the above is as far as i go on that front.This is just an experiment to try and prove that future turning points in time can be predicted mathmatically.I'm sure that there are many methods of doing this,so if this kind of thing interests you,it's possible that you may stumble upon a method... like i did,and hopefully this thread will inspire you.

Now, who wants to see me make a horses ass of myself with these predictions?

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I'm not going to give away the method for these predictions here for obvious reasons but i will post the predictions so we can see how they turn out purely for entertainment;)

 

The basic premise is that Gann was correct when he said that time and price are the same thing. That is the statement i want to prove is true.But i am not using his methods because i dont believe it works in the way he says.Others have said that he didn't demonstrate the whole theory because he wanted his students to find the missing pieces for themselves.Don't know if he told them that before they handed over 5000 dollars,but personally...i'd be pissed with my end of the deaL:confused:

 

Although i'm not giving away the method it wont cost you 5 grand here to get a few hints:)

 

First off,the method

DOES NOT predict price levels

DOES NOT tell you if a future turning point is a high or a low- only the predicted time.

That is no problem since i use my normal methods to determine those things.

 

There are numerous cycle periods people are using out there- basically if you can think of a number someone claims there is a cycle for it.But many of these don't include PRICE in the calculation.

If price and time are the same unit,they must both be included in the same equation

So my method is:

 

PRICE X SOMETHING X RATIO = TIME

 

The idea isn't to play a guessing game here with you guys,so the above is as far as i go on that front.This is just an experiment to try and prove that future turning points in time can be predicted mathmatically.I'm sure that there are many methods of doing this,so if this kind of thing interests you,it's possible that you may stumble upon a method... like i did,and hopefully this thread will inspire you.

Now, who wants to see me make a horses ass of myself with these predictions?[/QUOTE]

 

 

I do, not the horse's ass but the predictions part.....gl

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M.

 

It would be helpful to let us know what level of accuracy and failure rate you've experienced, so that we may have some context of what to expect. It's always a matter of interest when someone comes up with something that works (color me skeptical). If you please… "the predictions".

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I'm not going to give away the method for these predictions here for obvious reasons but i will post the predictions so we can see how they turn out purely for entertainment;)

 

 

Now, who wants to see me make a horses ass of myself with these predictions?[/QUOTE]

 

 

I do, not the horse's ass but the predictions part.....gl

 

 

Thanks cash..i'll be posting various other bits and pieces also

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M.

 

It would be helpful to let us know what level of accuracy and failure rate you've experienced, so that we may have some context of what to expect. It's always a matter of interest when someone comes up with something that works (color me skeptical). If you please… "the predictions".

 

Actually i'm glad you asked that question because i wanted to post the last few days predictions and compare them to the actual turns but i didn't as i thought it would prove nothing.

I have not done extensive back testing.The calculations can only be done if you know the time of day of the previous intraday highs/lows.I don't have much past data to do that,but if anyone here does,i could do more testing. (That would be for S&P 500 cash) Generally speaking i prefer forward testing- discretionary trading is my main thing,so i'm just as skeptical as you at this point,hoping to be suprised.

Anyway,i'll post the last few days results since it will give at least an indication of what to expect.

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The problem with Gann's work is that it is all based on price as in his day he had no access to real-time volume or real-time information about buying and selling volumes.

 

Today everybody can access this information and see the forces that drive price rather than just price itself.

 

Peter Steidlmayer has always taught that price itself is not a good predictor of price. That if you want to predict or foretell a result - look to the cause.

 

The cause of price movment is not the passage of time, it is buying and selling or the balance of trade. If trade is balanced price doesn't change yet time marches on.

 

Please Click to enlarge image

tpt374.jpg

 

 

Please Click to enlarge image

tpt367.jpg

 

 

Please Click to enlarge image

v941.jpg

 

 

cheers

 

UrmaBlume

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The problem with Gann's work is that it is all based on price as in his day he had no access to real-time volume or real-time information about buying and selling volumes.

 

Today everybody can access this information and see the forces that drive price rather than just price itself.

 

Peter Steidlmayer has always taught that price itself is not a good predictor of price. That if you want to predict or foretell a result - look to the cause.

 

The cause of price movment is not the passage of time, it is buying and selling or the balance of trade. If trade is balanced price doesn't change yet time marches on.

 

Imo, volume certainly needs to be taken into account as it clearly acts on price both in a stationary and activity based way. However, although I can't fully substantiate this, I do feel that passage of time combined with price and volume does affect future price movement. Price does matter. People trade off what they believe to be a good price from previously and (well they should do anyway) the way the market is acting in terms of movement and volume at those levels. To me, there has got to be a more effective way of combining all aspects of the market.

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Imo, volume certainly needs to be taken into account as it clearly acts on price both in a stationary and activity based way. However, although I can't fully substantiate this, I do feel that passage of time combined with price and volume does affect future price movement. Price does matter. People trade off what they believe to be a good price from previously and (well they should do anyway) the way the market is acting in terms of movement and volume at those levels. To me, there has got to be a more effective way of combining all aspects of the market.

 

All intraday highs and lows are mathematically connected.Simple backtesting will confirm this.Volume is a seperate issue which may give more weight to a particular mathmatically connected price.

If volume analysis is essential to ones' trading strategy then it can be used.If it is not essential then it can safely be ignored.To suggest,as he does,repeatedly,that if a trader does not use volume then they are missing something vital is false and potentially misleading to newcomers.

The purpose of this thread was outlined on page one.I'm not here to argue with anyone nor convert them to my beliefs.I could care less what he believes and since he has no interest in this thread,one has to question what his motives are,bearing in mind that we long ago established the fact that we do not like each other. :)

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Like or dislike shouldn't come into any discussion, at least not in a negative way. If you are open to it, it's often from your biggest critics/adversories you will learn the most, whether that's their intention or not.

 

As for day extremities being connected with time, price or whatever else, I am intrigued even if it is just an academic exercise. I have to say I have very little knowledge of how exactly they might be connected. The only thing I really know is probably rather obvious to most, extremes are formed most frequently at the beginning and end of sessions. This is only a statistical observation however.

 

Looks like you were a little out today btw. 2pm EST was the call right?

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The reason i'm a discretionary trader is i don't have much faith in mechanical systems and wont follow their signals using a backtest as reassurance.There is an art to trading but it always comes down to probabilities.Todays prediction for 2.00pm is a case in point.

Since 2.00pm was neither the high nor the low (and we are attempting to predict only those prices),the prediction is invalidated in terms of an exact time,with the advantage that we can clearly see 2.00pm is not a setup we're looking for.Lots of mechanical systems won't give you that obvious clue-this one obviously does.

However,if today had closed at or near the low (possibly a new low for the day),then a prediction for a turn in the afternoon/end of day can be usefull if we want to make it usefull.

But regardless of what happened today i want to reiterate that for me,instinct,reading the market,will always outweigh a 'signal'.

For 2.pm today to be valid we would be looking for 2 and only 2 setups- a new low printed (a possible buy) or a gap fill from the open .Since i'm anticipating a possible reversal on the daily timeframe (reversal from fridays high) shorting a gap fill would be my prefered strategy and with no hesitation if it happened at or around the predicted time but price would have to exceed the opening price to be the possible high.

On the daily timeframe i did mark a possible reversal on friday,though futures were already down 10-15 points overnight when i posted that chart.

Possible reversal means a pullback/retrace more significant than very recent history,but usually several days.I calculate these in a differnt way to the intraday H/L's.I wont spell it out how its done,but after a while as this thread develops,those who have an interest should easily be able to reverse engineer this method which has been working very nicely since January. I have not backtested any previous years yet,as i suspect the cycle changes over time.But the idea can just be adapted should the cycle change and can be used as soon as it is spotted.

This is another reason why i don't have faith in backtested mechanical strategies.The market evolves without really changing- S/R has to be somewhere the high/low has to be somewhere.In recent years many of the intraday H/L.s were in the middle of the day.That rarely happens recently. Some of you will well remember also, violent reversals around the 2.30pm zone as the Fed did it's best to stem the heavy losses at the start of the bear market.

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Like or dislike shouldn't come into any discussion, at least not in a negative way. If you are open to it, it's often from your biggest critics/adversories you will learn the most, whether that's their intention or not.

 

As for day extremities being connected with time, price or whatever else, I am intrigued even if it is just an academic exercise. I have to say I have very little knowledge of how exactly they might be connected. The only thing I really know is probably rather obvious to most, extremes are formed most frequently at the beginning and end of sessions. This is only a statistical observation however.

 

Looks like you were a little out today btw. 2pm EST was the call right?

 

I take your point,very wise actually.Yeah,not the best of starts but too early to judge,see how it does over a long run

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I have never understood the reason for so much focus on the need to predict a particular point in the future when trading.

 

Example: I place a long trade from a decision point (oscillation) that occurs in real time, where I have confirmed information that the current strength of the chart I am trading is UP and the current Trend of the chart I'm trading is UP. I then exit on the next decision point (oscillation) that shows me the strength of that particular chart is momentarily weakening in relation to that particular trade.

 

I place a short trade from a decision point (oscillation) that occurs in real time, where I have confirmed information that the current strength of the chart I am trading is DOWN and the current Trend of the chart I'm trading is DOWN. I then exit on the next decision point (oscillation) that shows me the strength of that particular chart is momentarily weakening in relation to that particular trade.

 

I trade each chart uniquely and independently because the strength and trend are specific to each individual chart. If day trading, pick a chart resolution that fits your style of trading and gives you ample trading decision points each day. If swing or position trading, do the same but by using longer and slower chart resolutions.

 

I started out researching the markets from a clean slate because I knew, up front, no one had figured it out. Gann, Fibonacci, or any of the other brilliant researchers have failed because they didn't have access to all of the minuscule market data or now that the information is accessible, have ignored that data and lazily taken short cuts to their conclusions. Then again, some continue to swim the critter infested Nile to get to their destination instead of building a simple raft and floating down the river.

 

There are many ways to successfully skin profits from these markets. Each of us has to find the way that makes the most sense. Just remember that this is 2011 and every bit of the market data is available for you to use. Don't make the same mistakes those before us that lacked this critical information made. Forge your own path and find unique solutions that work for you.

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Mitsu - I don't want to burst your bubble, but some friendly advice from one who has been there. Don't go down that rabbit hole. It is hard to emerge and you will waste untold hours trying to find the "secret". I'm telling you that from someone who has been there and wasted several years studying Gann and trying to discover his secrets. If you doubt me, I can tell you that I spent many months studying the code in Tunnel Through the Air alone. Did I make some breakthroughs? Yes. Did it lead to profitable trading? NO.

 

Yes, there are some things you can see that causes one to scratch the head and say "That's amazing." The square of 9 is a perfect example. I have seen markets turn on the exact day and price predicted by the square. Problem is, there are so many more times when it doesn't happen that it essentially becomes random. I never could arrive at a workable strategy to trade Gann and gave up after several years trying.

 

I know that there are "experts" out there that trade based on his principles. More power to them. However, even among the experts, I've not heard of anyone replicating what Gann was reported to have done in the Ticker article and in his other successes. Place your efforts on more rewarding areas, such as price volume analysis, developing basic set-ups, etc. You will benefit much more than by pursuing the edge of the shadow.

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Below is copyrighted text taken from "Practical Short Term Trading - Techniques & Technologies" that is reproduced here with permission from the author.

 

Three True Descriptions of the

 

Price/Time/Volume Continuum are:

 

"As Price changes or not and Time passes Volume happens/accumulates.

 

As Time passes and Trade/Volume happens Prices change in Direct Proportion to the degree to which that Trade is Imbalanced.

 

As Time passes and Trade/Volume happens Prices change in Inverse Proportion to the degree to which that Trade is Balanced."

 

Cheers

 

UrmaBlume

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Those who live by the crystal ball will have to learn to eat glass. The market speaks 5 languages ( Price, Time, Momentum, Pattern and Value).

 

The key to successful trading is not in forecasting the future rather it is in properly

quantifying the present.

 

If you have finally come to the point in your development as a trader where the ringing of a cash register is more important than caressing that intellectual G spot then the necessity to pinpoint exact highs and lows and say “You see I knew it would hit that tick”!!! will no longer plague your performance. If you can properly translate even 2 of those languages adhere to your game plan and stop being so focused on being a Wall St Edgar Casey it is then that you will accomplish what is needed. (Extracting a consistent living from the markets).

 

“We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started... and know the place for the first time.”

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Those who live by the crystal ball will have to learn to eat glass. The market speaks 5 languages ( Price, Time, Momentum, Pattern and Value).

 

The key to successful trading is not in forecasting the future rather it is in properly

quantifying the present.

 

If you have finally come to the point in your development as a trader where the ringing of a cash register is more important than caressing that intellectual G spot then the necessity to pinpoint exact highs and lows and say “You see I knew it would hit that tick”!!! will no longer plague your performance. If you can properly translate even 2 of those languages adhere to your game plan and stop being so focused on being a Wall St Edgar Casey it is then that you will accomplish what is needed. (Extracting a consistent living from the markets).

 

“We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started... and know the place for the first time.”

 

Nice post.!!! Better words were probably spoken . . . but not in the last 30 minutes.

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Those who live by the crystal ball will have to learn to eat glass.

 

All T.A is about the resolution of a limited number of probabilities.The end of every trading day is the resolution of a limited number of probabilities.Each trade is based on a prediction which has only 2 probabilities.

If you're a momentum trader and you buy breakouts,you are predicting higher prices.If you fade that breakout you are predicting a failed breakout and lower prices.Now, i know lot's of traders hate the word 'prediction' and start talking money management etc. But the reality is we are in the prediction business like it or not.

You mentioned the elements which you use to weigh the probabilities.You got yours,i got mine.If either of us had the magic formula,the holy grail,we would both be extremely rich by now.... i'll go first ..not

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Mitsu - I don't want to burst your bubble, but some friendly advice from one who has been there. Don't go down that rabbit hole. It is hard to emerge and you will waste untold hours trying to find the "secret". I'm telling you that from someone who has been there and wasted several years studying Gann and trying to discover his secrets. If you doubt me, I can tell you that I spent many months studying the code in Tunnel Through the Air alone. Did I make some breakthroughs? Yes. Did it lead to profitable trading? NO.

 

Yes, there are some things you can see that causes one to scratch the head and say "That's amazing." The square of 9 is a perfect example. I have seen markets turn on the exact day and price predicted by the square. Problem is, there are so many more times when it doesn't happen that it essentially becomes random. I never could arrive at a workable strategy to trade Gann and gave up after several years trying.

 

I know that there are "experts" out there that trade based on his principles. More power to them. However, even among the experts, I've not heard of anyone replicating what Gann was reported to have done in the Ticker article and in his other successes. Place your efforts on more rewarding areas, such as price volume analysis, developing basic set-ups, etc. You will benefit much more than by pursuing the edge of the shadow.

 

Ah.you don't want to burst my bubble but you come here with a pin in your hand!?:)

First off i am using nothing of Gann except the idea that price and time are connected.The method i am using here is of my own device.There is no bubble here.Trading is one thing and rabbit holes are another thing at this stage for me.I am not basing trading decisions on these predictions,this is merely a forward test and i am as much of an observer as any visitor here.I have stated quite clearly that i'm a discretionary trader.

The biggest rabbit hole imo are all the freely available indicators,books trading courses etc.

I hope you won't think my style of writing is rude and i mean no offense at all,but lets cut the crap.I am one of those rare people who had the luxury of being able to do my 10k hours of study full time without having to worry about money. I know all about rabbit holes.

You say you ' wasted several years studying Gann' . I would say i wasted no years.The pieces of the jigsaw are scattered everywhere.You didn't waste your time if you feel you can safely eliminate Gann.

If you can do what is required in your job,any job, there is no downside in attempting to become exceptional at it.And that will always involve a lot more work.thinking outside the box,while fending off people who will tell you what the present limitations are,or what they believe them to be.

I appreciate what you wrote and why you wrote it.I understand why there may be some confusion about the nature of this thread.It is probably because i said i wouldn't divulge the details of the method which kind of infers that i have some secret holy grail predictor thing,which i don't.

All i'm doing is testing something that looks promising.But if it turns out to be amazing i'll be glad i didn't share the details.For all i know there is someone out there who is using the same thing or something similar and keeping very very quiet about it. :)

Once again.i appreciate your post.

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I'll answer the question i asked in my first post.Gann was almost certainly a con artist.

Why do i think that? .Simple probabilities.It's much easier to be a con artist than it is to be a genius.

It's much easier to bribe a couple of journalists to 'witness' the 'genius' at work in his home.than it is to trade live in front of a neutral audience.What kind of person really wants to spend his life travelling the world studying weird and wonderfull things,devoting years to the quest with not so much as a calculator only to deliberately mislead people as a final legacy?.The reason he talked about all kinds of different stuff is probably because he didn't really achieve what he believed was achievable because his theory was flawed.He saw as,Darvas suggested,uncanny things happen and thought it was the rule rather than the exception.Probably why,if you follow his teachings you'll see uncanny stuff yourself.Maybe he would have 'found it' if he'd lived longer.

You know,if i was him i wouldn't be writing to people i hardly knew,telling them I'd invented a 'master calculator' for which i normally charge 5k a student, but 'i can make a special price for you'. That is a salesman talking not a genius.

No.if i were Gann i think i'd do the most obvious,sensible thing,and just get extremely rich..pretty quickly actually.

To be fair maybe he was an ok trader but just wanted to be exceptional- maybe that's why i find him interesting.He was still a conman though. He probably was one of those people who believe the end justifies the means-so bribe journalists in the first instance and hope you can find the grail later without anyone noticing the gap.

He would have been a good politician,they also believe the end justifies the means,even if they have to kill 100 thousand Iraqis to prove it.

You'll be glad to know i'm not trying to con anyone here,least of all myself,let alone kill anyone-no traders were killed in the making of this thread :)

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    • China’s New Cryptocurrency   China plans to release a new digital currency which would bear some similarities to Facebook’s Libra coin. It would be usable across several platforms like WeChat and Alipay.   In a recent interview with the Shanghai Security News on the 6th of September, the deputy director of the People’s Bank of China, Mu Changchun, stated the purposes and the need for the new digital currency. He stated that the central bank needed to evolve from the use of traditional paper currency and delve into electronic payment methods which are making strong advances around the world. He said that the digital currency would be a realistic way to protect monetary sovereignty and legal currency status, stating that this digital currency initiative was a way of planning for a rainy day.   He also mentioned that digital currency would be as safe as the traditional central bank-issued paper notes and that it could even be used without requiring an internet connection. This offline feature is one of its major selling points as monetary transactions can still be carried out even in the face of communication breakdowns resulting from natural disasters like earthquakes, tsunamis and so on.   In 2014, the Chinese central bank set up a research party to explore the possibilities of a China-based digital currency to reduce the costs of producing and circulating paper money, which in turn would boost policymakers’ control over the supply of money.   Information about the development of this new digital currency was unknown to the public until last month when Mu announced that the innovation was almost ready.   US-based financial magazine Forbes has made claims that the currency would be ready by November 11.   Analysts are saying that the announcement made by social media giants, Facebook on the release of its digital coin, Libra, is the reason for the acceleration of the push towards digital currency by the PBoC.   Mu made mention of how the new digital currency would strike a balance between allowing anonymous payments and preventing money-laundering as compared to Libra. Although the Chinese digital currency may bear some resemblances with Libra, it would possess characteristics that even Libra didn’t have.   Facebook’s Libra Facebook’s Libra has sparked a lot of worries among global regulators that it could become the predominant digital payment format and could become a medium for money laundering considering the social media’s wide reach.   Libra is said to be a digital currency that would be backed by several real-world assets, including bank deposits and government securities, and it will be held by a network of stewards. The structure of Libra is predicated on promoting trust and to stabilize its price.   Finally, Mu further discussed the superiority of the digital currency over altcoins was that others could go bankrupt and cause its users huge losses. Thus he said, can never be the case of PBoC’s new currency.   Source: https://learn2.trade         
    • Facebook’s Libra To Apply For Licence In Switzerland   Swiss financial regulators have signaled that Facebook’s cryptocurrency, Libra is mandated to meet up to extra requirements besides acquiring a payment system license before they can begin operations in the region.   In a recent press release, the Swiss Market Supervisory Authority (FINMA) explained that the diverse services projected by Libra have created the need for adding the requirements being imposed. They stated that due to the issuance of payment tokens by Libra, the operations planned by Libra would clearly exceed those of a pure payment system and therefore should be subjected to such extra requirements.   The Extra Regulatory Requirements According to FINMA, the extra requirements would be targeted specifically at liquidity, risk concentration and capital allocation.   The financial regulators of Switzerland have also noted that the management of Libra is another element necessitating the demand for Facebook to meet extra requirements concerning its cryptocurrency initiative.   In the launch of the Libra white paper in June, Facebook noted that the reserve would be controlled by a web of custodians who would be spread across different geographies. The so-called custodians will be mandated to possess an investment-grade credit rating.   Also, Facebook noted that the real assets used to back the Libra cryptocurrency would be a selection of low-risk assets such as bank deposits and government securities.   What Form Will these Extra Libra requirements take?   According to FINMA, the extra regulatory requirements that Libra would have to meet would be nothing different from what other participants in the financial markets have to adhere to.   For example, Libra would be expected to be exposed to certain bank-like rules such as a large simultaneous number of withdrawals of Libra coin by users would have to be palliated by the application of certain bank-like regulatory requirements. This means that Facebook would be required to obtain a banking license. This idea has been pushed for in the past by U.S. President, Donald Trump.   FINMA also mentioned that Libra’s international range will mandate a globally coordinated approach. This new development would drastically delay the launch of the cryptocurrency.   U.S. Pressures Switzerland over Libra Cryptocurrency Switzerland is under intense pressure from the United States to ensure that its cryptocurrency regulations are not prone to misuse. Facebook chose the Central European nation as its hub because of the country’s progressiveness towards FinTech.   According to a report by the Wall Street Journal, officials from Switzerland and U.S. Held a meeting in Switzerland earlier this week, where they discussed matters surrounding the new cryptocurrencies regulations.   The U.S Undersecretary of the Treasury for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence, Sigal Mandelker, emphasized his concerns over the need to have regulations strong enough to fend off bad actors. He mandated that the Swiss handle these concerns with all importance.   Source: https://learn2.trade   
    • I don't agree with you. There are dozens and dozens of brokers that are regulated by the CySEC or FCA.
    • Just one more question. How many real REGULATED crypto BROKERS can we find? Correct, the answer is ZERO!! Please stay away from trading cryptos.
    • EU was stopped for -.5. Current stalk EU
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