Vendors Vendors Vendors

[BlowFish 10]

Hi Blowfish

 

The idea of a vendor rejoining the community under a new username as a non vendor was for someone who wished to become a non selling member of the community in the future.

 

The community's perception of the possible/probable intentions of that vendor member would always be different from those of a non selling member as long as they stayed on as a vendor member.

 

In labeling vendors the intention is not to place them under any suspicion, as you've humorously mentioned the placement of a skull and cross bones, potentially alluding to them as thieves or cheats. The intention of labeling is to stress the possible/probable difference in intentions they may have from those of non vending members.

 

I think you'd agree this is a good thing and has been long overdue.

 

That might of been the idea but that was not what you said originally . What you originally said had nothing to do with a vendor re-joining the community (I guess the discussion subsequently moved on). What you actually said was

You must admit it's a little strange that the website where you sell your education is easily found by googling "wrbtrader", which is your username here at TL.

For a vendor just wishing to move in and out of the forum in a non-promotional way, why don't you just change your username to be completely separate from any of your selling endeavours.

 

Are you suggesting vendors post in complete anonymity? Of course not (though I suspect the unscrupulous ones create accounts to do just that). That is completely contradictory to your (very credible) endeavour.

[BlowFish 10]

Hi wrbtrader

 

Why in the world are you so concerned about wearing a vending label when that is exactly what you do? Be proud of it and see it as a business opportunity!! Perhaps the quality of your posts will bring you new found success.

 

 

I am not sure why I am getting involved, maybe it's because you are using somewhat dubious tactics in your campaign It is a pet peeve when people use logical fallacies or just plain bending of the truth to further their agenda. I wonder if it is intentional or that you might just have lost sight of what has been previously said? I suggest you re-read his original post. if you read that (and subsequent) posts to the thread it is crystal clear that he is not concerned with 'wearing a vending label'. Quite the reverse. You do your cause no favours by misrepresenting people.

 

As an aside I think I'll buy Marks stuff. Over the many many years that I have enjoyed his posts I did not realise that he had a paid offering, thank you for outing him (sincerely). I was genuinely unaware that he had collated his stuff into a paid package. It's something I'd like to read, price action, costs about the same as a (modest) dinner for two, and a guy who's posts are eloquent and informed.

[MadMarketScientist 11]

Just remember this...we (you and I) are part of the community. If we don't get along and the same with others, there's really no community worth visiting because its just a pissing match as noted by many value members (non vendors) that no longer visit TL. Thus, it's really not about vendors that's driving away members from the community and that's an entirely different cup of tea involving non vendors in the community. :helloooo:

 

Amen - I think we've discussed this topic long enough. Once I am back from vacation the last week of Sept (on my way to Vienna then Salsburg and then Munich if anyone cares!) we are going to add the icon and then close this thread so that everyone can get back to discussing trading.

 

thanks,

MMS

[BlowFish 10]

Happy holidays, just trying to book a few weeks in the sun for next month!

[clmacdougall 11]

I am not sure why I am getting involved, maybe it's because you are using somewhat dubious tactics in your campaign It is a pet peeve when people use logical fallacies or just plain bending of the truth to further their agenda. I wonder if it is intentional or that you might just have lost sight of what has been previously said? I suggest you re-read his original post. if you read that (and subsequent) posts to the thread it is crystal clear that he is not concerned with 'wearing a vending label'. Quite the reverse. You do your cause no favours by misrepresenting people.

 

As an aside I think I'll buy Marks stuff. Over the many many years that I have enjoyed his posts I did not realise that he had a paid offering, thank you for outing him (sincerely). I was genuinely unaware that he had collated his stuff into a paid package. It's something I'd like to read, price action, costs about the same as a (modest) dinner for two, and a guy who's posts are eloquent and informed.

 

 

Hi wrbtrader

 

So, enough said! This gentleman is going to purchase your trading education!!! By becoming labeled and being informative you've found a client. I said so from the 1st or 2nd page that this could be a goldmine for a vendor who provides both good trading theory and a good product, perhaps that vendor is you!!

 

You're welcome!

[clmacdougall 11]

I am not sure why I am getting involved, maybe it's because you are using somewhat dubious tactics in your campaign It is a pet peeve when people use logical fallacies or just plain bending of the truth to further their agenda. I wonder if it is intentional or that you might just have lost sight of what has been previously said? I suggest you re-read his original post. if you read that (and subsequent) posts to the thread it is crystal clear that he is not concerned with 'wearing a vending label'. Quite the reverse. You do your cause no favours by misrepresenting people.

 

As an aside I think I'll buy Marks stuff. Over the many many years that I have enjoyed his posts I did not realise that he had a paid offering, thank you for outing him (sincerely). I was genuinely unaware that he had collated his stuff into a paid package. It's something I'd like to read, price action, costs about the same as a (modest) dinner for two, and a guy who's posts are eloquent and informed.

 

Hi Blowfish

 

With all of the efforts put forward to make this change, your concern is about 1. my use of dubious tactics; 2.my use of logical fallacies 3. my bending of the truth 4. the furthering of my agenda and 5. my misrepresentation of people.

 

You must make for a very high maintenance relationship. Get your head out of the clouds and just say, thanks!! The change which a lot of us, including you, have been wanting is about to come. It's not "my cause" it's for the good of this community.

[Tams 20]

lrushing

Trading EveryDay | The Better Way To Learn To Trade

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/beginners-forum/10469-true-90-traders-never-make-dime.html#post127978

the signature link will probably censored by the mod by the time you read this.

 

 

 

note to clmacdougall:

can you sort the list alphabetically?

many thanks

[Moyyim 10]

asiaforexmentor

 

$399 Course > $8497 personal coaching

[clmacdougall 11]

There is nothing exclusive in this search to identify vendors. All members are welcome to help. Please let us know if you've found a TL member attempting to sell you or others anything on or off this site.

 

 

Our vendor list with names product and price:

 

alleyb / trading site mentorship / $800 per year

asiaforexmentor / trading education / $399 course $8497 personal coaching

Dbphoenix / ebook / $30

Dionysus Toast / indicator package / $249

doubletop11 / indicator package / $1000 per year

Eiger / mentorship courses / $69 - $1199

electroniclocal / 3 day seminar / $5000

Fulcrum Trader /training & chatroom /$97 per month chat & $397 - $697 training

Lil Miss Markets / sector specific trade alerts / unknown, through email only

Logic / manual / $750

lrushing / trading education / $37.00 per month

nhallett / 5 hour course / $297

NihabaAshi & wrbtrader / training / $193 - $473

Plugger / trading program / $1997

Predictor / manual and mentorship / unknown, through email add only

Rande Howell / multi media courses + 10 personal sessions / $ 2997

RicyBS / trading program / unknown, through email only

steve46 / daily coaching / $200 per month

swisstrader / multicharts package/ free - $9990

TheRumpledOne / indicators / $50

thetradingdoctor / coaching/ $250.00 per 50 min

Tim Racette / ebook / $49.95

tjnoon / trading system / unknown, through email only

tradingadvantagetm / training / unknown, through email add only

Urma Blume / tradestation inducator package addon / $1400 per year

windsurfer / trading program / $50 per month

xkr1962 / training & mentorship / $8000 - $16,000

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will post the others after discovering what they are trying to sell and for how much. Thanks

[BlowFish 10]

Hi Blowfish

 

With all of the efforts put forward to make this change, your concern is about 1. my use of dubious tactics; 2.my use of logical fallacies 3. my bending of the truth 4. the furthering of my agenda and 5. my misrepresentation of people.

 

You must make for a very high maintenance relationship. Get your head out of the clouds and just say, thanks!! The change which a lot of us, including you, have been wanting is about to come. It's not "my cause" it's for the good of this community.

 

So it's OK to completely mis represent someone? The ends justify the means right?

 

You use more fallacy in your reply. You choose to attack me (head in the clouds, high maintenance). Rather than comment on my point. Look up ad hominem, essentially you attack the arguer rather than the argument. You also choose to use 'the efforts' to justify your misrepresentation (tacitly taking credit for the upcoming change).

 

Let be quite clear. - You where dishonest -. Whether that is to further your agenda or a genuine mistake only you know. I find the latter increasingly unlikely seeing how active you have been in this thread, also the fact that you choose to go to war (attack me, defend your statements) rather than simply apologise or acknowledging an error further supports the premise that this dishonesty was intentional.

 

You want my thanks? No. You have my sympathy, in my experience unless one is logically scrupulous and brutally honest with oneself it makes it hard to do well at the retail end of this business.

 

You want honesty and transparency from vendors, I would like to see that from all posters.

 

 

 

 

edit: PS good job on maintaining the list. that was never in question.

[clmacdougall 11]

So it's OK to completely mis represent someone? The ends justify the means right?

 

You use more fallacy in your reply. You choose to attack me (head in the clouds, high maintenance). Rather than comment on my point. Look up ad hominem, essentially you attack the arguer rather than the argument. You also choose to use 'the efforts' to justify your misrepresentation (tacitly taking credit for the upcoming change).

 

Let be quite clear. - You where dishonest -. Whether that is to further your agenda or a genuine mistake only you know. I find the latter increasingly unlikely seeing how active you have been in this thread, also the fact that you choose to go to war (attack me, defend your statements) rather than simply apologise or acknowledging an error further supports the premise that this dishonesty was intentional.

 

You want my thanks? No. You have my sympathy, in my experience unless one is logically scrupulous and brutally honest with oneself it makes it hard to do well at the retail end of this business.

 

You want honesty and transparency from vendors, I would like to see that from all posters.

 

 

 

 

edit: PS good job on maintaining the list. that was never in question.

 

Hi Blowfish,

 

Fair enough, I'll argue with your argument and not you. I have certainly not completely misrepresented our vendor friend, wrbtrader. He is a vendor who wishes to be labeled as a "non selling vendor" and who desires that other vendors who have been proven to be sellers to be labeled as "selling vendors" as per post #241. To him this distinction seems of great importance, to me it is not. His argument should be with the moderator and not with me.

 

By being labeled at all he has found a new client in you and I hope that you enjoy what he offers and that he appreciates what you give him in return!

 

The "ends" you speak of were already accomplished before our vendor friend and myself continued to disagree with / misunderstand one another. No one had anything else to prove, so our disagreement could go forward as an honest one with no "ends" in sight.

 

Your character assessment of me concerns the following 1. my use of dubious tactics; 2.my use of logical fallacies 3. my bending of the truth 4. the furthering of my agenda 5. my misrepresentation of people and 6.my intentional dishonesty. Please tell me how I have shown each of these and I will in turn reply to your charges.

 

In your post # 252 & #260 you saw fit to attack my character without specificity, I would appreciate it if you would now take the time to attempt to prove these charges as being true.

 

Blowfish, I neither want your thanks or your sympathy. By nature this community is a laboratory, good arguments will stand and poor ones won't, that's the nature of good science. Put forward your argument.

[BlowFish 10]

Well I guess we should leave it at that, we have both stated our positions and anyone who cares (no one I imagine!!) can see exactly what was said and what was not. Keep up the good work on the list.

[clmacdougall 11]

Well I guess we should leave it at that, we have both stated our positions and anyone who cares (no one I imagine!!) can see exactly what was said and what was not. Keep up the good work on the list.

 

Hi Blowfish,

 

There's no need to malign and run. Sit down, stay awhile, put your feet up and just start typing away. I certainly care what you think. See me as a party of one who is deeply interested in why you consider me to be a liar!!

[BlowFish 10]

His first post to thread is here http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/general-discussion/10633-vendors-vendors-vendors-16.html#post126583 Seems pretty clear to me that he has absolutely no problem whatsoever being identified as 'a vendor' not what you say in later posts. QED.

 

Lets leave it, really it serves no purpose bickering and I don't have the time or inclination to go through quote by quote. The marvels of the interweb means anyone can see who said what and when. I'll continue in PM's if you like but reserve the right to agree to disagree and duck out!! Edit; btw I was very careful to not use the L word it is pretty emotive.

 

As an aside, two or three posts later you thank him for "being so transparent" in that same short post you also say " It's a strange thing when even a vendor wants identification on the site. " That is a telling statement to me, it seems like you attach stigma to any sort of vendor and it would imply that you do not simply want to name but to name and shame. I may be wrong but it seems like you have a negative view of all vendors?

 

Take a look at the Whyckoff section here, It is probably the best resource on his work bar none (including expensive courses). It is possible one of the best bodies of work on any single coherent trading approach. That would simply not exist if DB had been hounded out for being the vendor of a $40 ebook. (He has previously left other venues for less). WRBTraders posts I have enjoyed for what must be a decade (I guess), I honestly (you can believe me or not) did not know that he offered paid for material. I guess all I am saying is all vendors are not equal, they are certainly not all 'bad' and it would be foolish to discount pearls of wisdom they have given away just because they sell something.

[bobcollett 10]

"And now, the end is near, and though I face the final curtain"

Frank Sinatra

[zdo 20]

If you see a lemonade stand, please call police.

[clmacdougall 11]

His first post to thread is here http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/general-discussion/10633-vendors-vendors-vendors-16.html#post126583 Seems pretty clear to me that he has absolutely no problem whatsoever being identified as 'a vendor' not what you say in later posts. QED.

 

Lets leave it, really it serves no purpose bickering and I don't have the time or inclination to go through quote by quote. The marvels of the interweb means anyone can see who said what and when. I'll continue in PM's if you like but reserve the right to agree to disagree and duck out!! Edit; btw I was very careful to not use the L word it is pretty emotive.

 

As an aside, two or three posts later you thank him for "being so transparent" in that same short post you also say " It's a strange thing when even a vendor wants identification on the site. " That is a telling statement to me, it seems like you attach stigma to any sort of vendor and it would imply that you do not simply want to name but to name and shame. I may be wrong but it seems like you have a negative view of all vendors?

 

Take a look at the Whyckoff section here, It is probably the best resource on his work bar none (including expensive courses). It is possible one of the best bodies of work on any single coherent trading approach. That would simply not exist if DB had been hounded out for being the vendor of a $40 ebook. (He has previously left other venues for less). WRBTraders posts I have enjoyed for what must be a decade (I guess), I honestly (you can believe me or not) did not know that he offered paid for material. I guess all I am saying is all vendors are not equal, they are certainly not all 'bad' and it would be foolish to discount pearls of wisdom they have given away just because they sell something.

 

How nice for you to make public allegations against another mans character and then to decide it would be best to continue forward using PM. Perhaps your allegations should have been made through PM.

 

You obviously had the time it took to publicly define me as a liar through my alleged 1. use of dubious tactics; 2. use of logical fallacies 3. bending of the truth 4. furthering of my agenda 5. misrepresentation of people and 6.intentional dishonesty. Please tell me how I have shown each of these and I will in turn reply to your charges.

 

In this case bickering will serve a purpose, my own defense!! Explain the reasons for your allegations or apologize publicly.

Edited September 16, 2011 by clmacdougall

[Tams 20]

I think you two are just hung up on semantics.

 

Both of you have stated your feelings/position at least once. We can carry on without repeating them again.

[Tams 20]

EasyTrader_I

 

EasyLanguage programming service - $30/hr

 

he used to have his ad on the status line

he also stated this in one of his posts... don't have the link at the moment, but I am sure it is there.

[clmacdougall 11]

I think you two are just hung up on semantics.

 

Both of you have stated your feelings/position at least once. We can carry on without repeating them again.

 

Thanks Tams, maybe your right. Although somehow I think I've heard those wise words somewhere before!

 

It always took my older brother to drag me out of stupid fights I would get into. I appreciate your efforts!

[clmacdougall 11]

If you see a lemonade stand, please call police.

 

If it was your lemonade stand, I probably would. Just kidding zdo. I appreciate the abstract sense of defining education and learning which you offer, it helps me to see things in a new light. Forgive me for taking myself too seriously at times.

 

What I wouldn't give to see a list of your favorite trading related books. Oh well I've tried before to no avail.

[Tams 20]

If you see a lemonade stand, please call police.

 

This actually happened in USA a few times;

the police fined the kids for having a lemonade stand without license.

It was on CNN.

[clmacdougall 11]

There is nothing exclusive in this search to identify vendors. All members are welcome to help. Please let us know if you've found a TL member attempting to sell you or others anything on or off this site.

 

 

Our vendor list with names product and price:

 

alleyb / trading site mentorship / $800 per year

asiaforexmentor / trading education / $399 course $8497 personal coaching

Dbphoenix / ebook / $30

Dionysus Toast / indicator package / $249

doubletop11 / indicator package / $1000 per year

EasyTrader_I / programming service / $30 per hour

Eiger / mentorship courses / $69 - $1199

electroniclocal / 3 day seminar / $5000

Fulcrum Trader /training & chatroom /$97 per month chat & $397 - $697 training

Lil Miss Markets / sector specific trade alerts / unknown, through email only

Logic / manual / $750

lrushing / trading education / $37 per month

nhallett / 5 hour course / $297

NihabaAshi & wrbtrader / training / $193 - $473

Plugger / trading program / $1997

Predictor / manual and mentorship / unknown, through email add only

Rande Howell / multi media courses + 10 personal sessions / $ 2997

RicyBS / trading program / unknown, through email only

steve46 / daily coaching / $200 per month

swisstrader / multicharts package/ free - $9990

TheRumpledOne / indicators / $50

thetradingdoctor / coaching/ $250 per 50 min

Tim Racette / ebook / $49

tjnoon / trading system / unknown, through email only

tradingadvantagetm / training / unknown, through email add only

Urma Blume / tradestation inducator package addon / $1400 per year

windsurfer / trading program / $50 per month

xkr1962 / training & mentorship / $8000 - $16,000

 

 

 

I will post the others after discovering what they are trying to sell and for how much. Thanks

[wrbtrader 10]

How nice for you to make public allegations against another mans character and then to decide it would be best to continue forward using PM. Perhaps your allegations should have been made through PM.

 

You obviously had the time it took to publicly define me as a liar through my alleged 1. use of dubious tactics; 2. use of logical fallacies 3. bending of the truth 4. furthering of my agenda 5. misrepresentation of people and 6.intentional dishonesty. Please tell me how I have shown each of these and I will in turn reply to your charges.

 

In this case bickering will serve a purpose, my own defense!! Explain the reasons for your allegations or apologize publicly.

 

If I didn't know anything about what had occurred in this thread and had saw your post above as the very second read to someone's opening statement in a thread about vendors...I would have thought you were a vendor with that statement and that blowfish was the vendor basher. :rofl:

 

...I will also be moving offending posts here so people can continue those discussions outside of the main thread.

 

thanks!

MMS

 

Also, the above quote from the thread starter/moderator MadMarketScientist reveals many things about nature or character of this thread which leads me to say that it's threads like this that eventually becomes an eye sore for the community considering an "Official List" can easily be maintained by TL management itself (not by a member) that doesn't allows replies...similar to other forums. Simply, names can easily be added to the list via members sending private messages to MMS with proof that a user name is a vendor.

 

Thus, the community gets its transparency without the bickering and pissing competitions like this that slowly drives away away members to other places online. I've now made my recommendations publicly and privately to MMS...he now has the ball and I'm curious to see what he does to fix things that's obviously still problematic for all members.

 

Take care all and my last post in this thread. Good trading to all.

Edited September 16, 2011 by wrbtrader

[Tams 20]

There are 3 types of non-sponsor vendors who frequent discussion forums like this one:

 

The first type are the snake oil salemen, scammer, also known as spammers.

 

they would make innocent looking posts like this:

 

Can anybody recommend a good forex EA?

(next post some 1st timer puts up an URL with raving review)

 

ABC newsletter makes very accurate calls. Last week they made $XXXXX !!!

 

My friend bought XYZ system and he is making a killing

 

Second type of vendors, although they are non-sponsors, made it known that they are vending, because they have their business name in the tag line, or somewhere easily identifiable.

 

Third type of vendors are stealth vendors. They hide the fact that they are vending. They post fancy charts to entice you, or to discuss their method in great length, but without really disclosing their method. It is when you are hooked, then they would say,

... my software is available for $1,400 per year, or

... I am starting a new class next month, or

... you can come to my blog.

 

 

The first type of vendors' posts get deleted almost immediately; you seldom see them.

 

The second type is not my business; MMM can do whatever he wants.

 

It is the third type that is most disturbing to us.

 

 

 

if you are not doing any of the above, you are not a "non-sponsoring vendor" in my eyes.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Tams