Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

TRADEZILLA

Trading E-mini at the Opening Bell

Recommended Posts

I mainly trade the e-mini after 11am/pt or 2pm/et and found that to be a better time fir directional moves.

 

I've just started trading the mornings as well and found it more difficult but have been having some success trading in the direction of the opening bias and then reverse on the 1'st fade usually around 15 minute after the opening or so. I only do it on 1 contract but it has been working so far.. Am I approaching it correctly?

 

Has anyone here been consistently success trading the opening bell? IF so, I'd like to hear about your approach to the opening bell..

 

Much thanks,

Tradezilla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find that you really have to have a plan given the phase of the overall short term auction. If you try to trade the open in the same way every day without giving thought to the auction, you'll likely get nailed before the day even starts properly. Today for example in the ES, you might have thought that it'd be a great buy considering the 'strength' over the last couple of days. However, given that it was at the top of short term balance and uncertainties remain, the trade was to sell to value. It's not always as simple as following the stronger type of participant though. Much of the time, you do get two-way action on open and waiting for the first push would get you caught in the move back. So my answer is that it depends on the day. I think trade it if you see some good opportunities if not don't. The other thing is that certain reference prices tend to work better than others depending on the participants present. OTF as longer term participants are referred to sometimes generally don't care too much about price, so if you can spot that type of action early on, going with it is not a bad idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't only trade like that only of course. I prepare with

 

market internals the night before

30min chart evaluation

S/R lines including pre-market where I decide my trades/stops

Pre-market chart pattern

Opening tones & etc..

 

I then put it all together and decide to trade or not.. My method has been working thus far but I don't want to get too happy before a major loss, since the run time is so short but it has def got me interested in some morning methods..

 

I'd like to hear from other traders that has been consistently profitable playing the morning moves..

 

Much thanks,

Tradezilla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is impossible to know what is in the collective minds of all the traders and investors and what they are going to do. All you can do is look for signs of what the majority is doing. About the only sure thing you can count on, is that the price will probably slow down and get choppy a few minutes before the news release. And there will be a lot of volatility the second the news comes out. I don't try to guess what the news report will do to the market. Just be aware when the news releases are coming out, and go with the flow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The market is one big guessing game and we all do our best and have reasons why we guess the way we do..

 

What types of indications do you use to clue you in for your morning trades?

 

In the past, I've always stayed away from the mornings because it is so volatile but I know somebody is capitalizing on that volatility.. and if you know how not just in theory but have been consistent at it, I'd like to know.. In return, I can share my method how I scalp the ES.. Scalping is a lot of hard work but the R/R decent and the overall net result is good..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This morning was a very tricky trade. The pre-opening looked like the market wants to go lower then on a dime exploded to the upside.. The only thing that clued us in was the pre-market support zone.. Did anyone catch that move?

 

I missed the move down and up but did catch the 2 shorts of the day at 7:30am&9:45am PT for a 4 1/2/2 point move today for a total of 6 1/2. I normally would not have taken those shorts but my internal indicators showed a reversal..

 

I'm curious to hear from anyone that caught that move up because you are either have balls of steel or an incredible methodology.. Anyone care to offer their input?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This morning was a very tricky trade. The pre-opening looked like the market wants to go lower then on a dime exploded to the upside.. The only thing that clued us in was the pre-market support zone.. Did anyone catch that move?

 

I missed the move down and up but did catch the 2 shorts of the day at 7:30am&9:45am PT for a 4 1/2/2 point move today for a total of 6 1/2. I normally would not have taken those shorts but my internal indicators showed a reversal..

 

I'm curious to hear from anyone that caught that move up because you are either have balls of steel or an incredible methodology.. Anyone care to offer their input?

 

I assume you are talking about the emini SP? The upside move began just prior to 5 am MDT according to the 2 minute chart I'm looking at, and it rose fairly gradually until 0830 am. Plenty of time to get in on that move...

 

Are we on the same page here?

 

Phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Phantom,

You're absolutely right.. That move began much earlier than the open with a nice set up in the pre-market. If you missed that move in the pre-market, how would anyone know to take that trade at the opening bell? since the pre market has low volumes and the opening bell has much higher volumes.. The only thing I see is the trend line that extended from pre-market but that would still be a gutsy move. I don't see how a trader would see a confirmation in time to see that trade, though spectacular...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phantom,

You're absolutely right.. That move began much earlier than the open with a nice set up in the pre-market. If you missed that move in the pre-market, how would anyone know to take that trade at the opening bell? since the pre market has low volumes and the opening bell has much higher volumes.. The only thing I see is the trend line that extended from pre-market but that would still be a gutsy move. I don't see how a trader would see a confirmation in time to see that trade, though spectacular...

 

If you wait until the opening bell in this market, you are making a big mistake. The REAL trading day in ES begins no later than 0600, and probably closer to 0530 MDT.

 

 

Phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yesterday's close and the trend line I suppose is probably good enough to take trade with a stop 2 points below.. The R/R ratio was worth it if someone planned that trade in advance.. I think these morning trades and price extreme extensions are the best trades the SP futures offer.. for R/R, though on the extreme trade, I prefer to take my profits early..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phantom,

You're absolutely right.. That move began much earlier than the open with a nice set up in the pre-market. If you missed that move in the pre-market, how would anyone know to take that trade at the opening bell? since the pre market has low volumes and the opening bell has much higher volumes.. The only thing I see is the trend line that extended from pre-market but that would still be a gutsy move. I don't see how a trader would see a confirmation in time to see that trade, though spectacular...

 

Hi Trade,

 

Have you tried CVB [constant volume bars] They build the changing rate of volume levels into the bars enabling you to see the action much more clearly.

 

Couple this with major S&R lines and you will see the pullbacks around the RTH Open that are Suckers Bait for the unaware.

 

Finally, put the notion that trading the Open is difficult.

It is not, it just requires a different approach in that one day it is pure momentum and the next day it is linear.

 

Using CVBs and major S&R lines plus paying attention to the buildup in the pre-market will enable you to pull good money from the Open.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, perhaps but I wouldn't stand in the way of the opening bell volumes though. I've placed trades in the pre-market before the opening bell if I think it clues me in to the opening and so far it has worked but I was biting my nails.. but I don't think today is one of those days.. I think you would just have to know the S/R levels and just take your shot at those levels and know your stops.. That's the only way I know how to do it, but that method seems to have good R/R, and more often than not, worthwhile trades..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Horace,

I have not. I didn't think volume was actionable info at the opening bell because all the volume is just coming in and can change quickly during the volatility, but I'll look into it.. So far, major S/R and pre-market indications is all I look at.. Can you give me an example of how those volume bars helped you with your decision?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll only say it one more time, TRADEZILLA. If you are waiting for the 0830 opening, you're leaving A LOT of money on the table...

 

How do you expect to make any money off the 0730 report releases, ie trade balance, nonfarm payrolls, initial claims, etc.???

 

To each, his own, I guess...

 

 

Phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Phantom,

Are you suggesting that

- I should always first look for opportunities to position my trades prior to the opening? or

- I should be trading this market in the pre-market hours where opportunities are better?

Tradezilla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, perhaps but I wouldn't stand in the way of the opening bell volumes though. I've placed trades in the pre-market before the opening bell if I think it clues me in to the opening and so far it has worked but I was biting my nails.. but I don't think today is one of those days.. I think you would just have to know the S/R levels and just take your shot at those levels and know your stops.. That's the only way I know how to do it, but that method seems to have good R/R, and more often than not, worthwhile trades..

 

Well this morning kicked off around 06:30, run into the 29.75 line and reversed and then reversed again at the 27.75 which was built into a very strong line.

 

It is a common enough pattern where the price struggles through the first line [27.75], turns at the second line [29.75] which then rolls the first 27.75 line from Resistance into Support.

 

basically it is a"shake-out" play followed by a big RR play

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Horace,

So the constant volume bars helped you see those levels? Did you take that ride up? If you did, how did you make that decision other than knowing that level was yesterday's close and a trendline? I imagine volume signals can be easily manipulated at the opening from bigger players to mislead.. How helpful do you consider those volume bars with your morning decision? I imagine the strength of the S/R levels along with morning sentiments that will determine most of the decision of the morning trade.

Tradezilla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phantom,

Are you suggesting that

- I should always first look for opportunities to position my trades prior to the opening? or

- I should be trading this market in the pre-market hours where opportunities are better?

Tradezilla

 

Pre-market hours???

 

This market trades 23.75 hours a day Tradezilla. Just because the floor doesn't begin until 0830 shouldn't preclude you from making money before they begin. I've made TONS of money on moves that began and ended long before the first floor trader stepped into the pit.

 

Also, how does a floor trader hunt your stop if he's not even at work yet?

 

You need to broaden your perspective on how the markets work if you ever want to go full time in this industry, in my opinion.

 

Not only is the ES "opening bell" NOT the end all-be all, you'll get MUCH more bang for your buck trading the grain markets' opening bell at 0930. I kid you not!

 

Anyway, go back in your charts and look at moves that started between 0700 and 0800 CDT; see if you can find some breakout opportunities off 15/30 minute charts, just like we've been discussing in the EC market. You'll be surprised.

 

 

Phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Horace,

So the constant volume bars helped you see those levels? Did you take that ride up? If you did, how did you make that decision other than knowing that level was yesterday's close and a trendline? I imagine volume signals can be easily manipulated at the opening from bigger players to mislead.. How helpful do you consider those volume bars with your morning decision? I imagine the strength of the S/R levels along with morning sentiments that will determine most of the decision of the morning trade.

Tradezilla

 

The best thing you can do is try these things for yourself.

 

When looking at S&R you might try the CLOSE rather than the H/L to set your levels.

Also take a look at the reliability of price Turning Points in the glbx as compared to RTH

and see whether you think the glbx is more directional or less directional or just about the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see those moves, though it often provides good moves, it often goes through slow directionless moves with very low volumes.. I suppose its following the foreign markets most of the time. You could be waiting a long time for 3-4 points whereas at the opening bell, you got a +3/2 reward/risk potential as long as you fin the right levels and your stops don't get hit more than twice..

 

I'll check it out but I will have to change my sleep schedule trading the evening currencies and the pre-NY opening..ha,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I see those moves, though it often provides good moves, it often goes through slow directionless moves with very low volumes.. I suppose its following the foreign markets most of the time. You could be waiting a long time for 3-4 points whereas at the opening bell, you got a +3/2 reward/risk potential as long as you fin the right levels and your stops don't get hit more than twice..

 

I'll check it out but I will have to change my sleep schedule trading the evening currencies and the pre-NY opening..ha,

 

3-4 points is a day's pay to a lot of folks. But if you only trade report days, you're much more likely to catch a larger move...

 

 

Phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Horace,

I've been watching those levels and I think they're both reliable more often than not. The rest depends on other factors such as the way the price is responding to those levels in context with the larger times frame and the tone of the day... all other indicators I've looked at are usually late. I've been trying with just one contract and I like what I see so far.

 

Phantom,

I'll definitely check out the grains too.. There are several to choose from, which one do you recommend I begin with? I'll paper trade it on my TradeStation simulator to get a feel for it.. I believe there's mini soy, wheat and corn on TS.

 

Thx,

Tradezilla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • also ... and barely on topic... Winners (always*) overpay. Buying the dips is a subscription to the belief that winners win by underpaying - when in actuality winners (inevitably/always*) win by overpaying... it’s amazing the percentage of traders who think winners win by underpaying ... “Winners (always*) overpay.” ...  One way to implement this ‘belief’ is to only reenter when prices have emphatically resumed the 'trend' .   (Fwiw, While “Winners (always*) overpay.” holds true in most endeavors (relationships, business, sports, etc...) - “Winners (always*) overpay.”  is especially true for auctions... continuous auctions included.)
    • re:  "Does it make sense to always buy the dips?  “Buy the dip.”  You hear this all the time in crypto investing trading speculation gambling. [zdo taking some liberties] It refers, of course, to buying more bitcoin (or digital assets) when they go down in price: when the price “dips.” Some people brag about “buying the dip," showing they know better than the crowd. Others “buy the dip” as an investment strategy: they’re getting a bargain. The problem is, buying the dip is a fallacy. You can’t buy the dip, because you can't see the total dip until much later. First, I’ll explain this in a way that will make it simple and obvious to you; then I’ll show you a better way of investing. You Only Know the Dip in Hindsight When people talk about “buying the dip,” what they’re really saying is, “I bought when the price was going down.” " ... example of a dip ... 
    • Date: 19th April 2024. Weekly Commodity Market Update: Oil Prices Correct and Supply Concerns Persist.   The ongoing developments in the Middle East sparked a wave of risk aversion and fueled supply concerns and investors headed for safety. Hopes for imminent rate cuts from the Federal Reserve diminish while attention is now turning towards the demand outlook. The Gold price hit a high of $2417.89 per ounce overnight. Sentiment has already calmed down again and bullion is trading at $2376.50 per ounce as haven flows ease. Oil prices initially moved higher as concern over escalating tensions with the WTI contract hit a session high of $85.508 per barrel overnight, before correcting to currently $81.45 per barrel. Oil Prices Under Pressure Amid Middle East Tensions Last week, commodity indexes showed little movement, with Oil prices undergoing a slight correction. Meanwhile, Gold reached yet another record high, mirroring the upward trend in cocoa prices. Once again today, USOil prices experienced a correction and has remained under pressure, retesting the 50-day EMA at $81.00 as we moving into the weekend. Hence, despite the Israel’s retaliatory strike on Iran, sentiments stabilized following reports suggesting a measured response aimed at avoiding further escalation. Brent crude futures witnessed a more than 4% leap, driven by concerns over potential disruptions to oil supplies in the Middle East, only to subsequently erase all gains. Similarly with USOIL, UKOIL hovers just below $87 per barrel, marginally below Thursday’s closing figures. Nevertheless, volatility is expected to continue in the market as several potential risks loom:   Disruption to the Strait of Hormuz: The possibility of Iran disrupting navigation through the vital shipping lane, is still in play. The Strait of Hormuz serves as the Persian Gulf’s primary route to international waters, with approximately 21 million barrels of oil passing through daily. Recent events, including Iran’s seizure of an Israel-linked container ship, underscore the geopolitical sensitivity of the region. Tougher Sanctions on Iran: Analysts speculate that the US may impose stricter sanctions on Iranian oil exports or intensify enforcement of existing restrictions. With global oil consumption reaching 102 million barrels per day, Iran’s production of 3.3 million barrels remains significant. Recent actions targeting Venezuelan oil highlight the potential for increased pressure on Iranian exports. OPEC Output Increases: Despite the desire for higher prices, OPEC members such as Saudi Arabia and Russia have constrained output in recent years. However, sustained crude prices above $100 per barrel could prompt concerns about demand and incentivize increased production. The OPEC may opt to boost oil output should tensions escalate further and prices surge. Ukraine Conflict: Amidst the focus on the Middle East, markets overlooking Russia’s actions in Ukraine. Potential retaliatory strikes by Kyiv on Russian oil infrastructure could impact exports, adding further complexity to global oil markets.   Technical Analysis USOIL is marking one of the steepest weekly declines witnessed this year after a brief period of consolidation. The breach below the pivotal support level of 84.00, coupled with the descent below the mid of the 4-month upchannel, signals a possible shift in market sentiment towards a bearish trend reversal. Adding to the bearish outlook are indications such as the downward slope in the RSI. However, the asset still hold above the 50-day EMA which coincides also with the mid of last year’s downleg, with key support zone at $80.00-$81.00. If it breaks this support zone, the focus may shift towards the 200-day EMA and 38.2% Fib. level at $77.60-$79.00. Conversely, a rejection of the $81 level and an upside potential could see the price returning back to $84.00. A break of the latter could trigger the attention back to the December’s resistance, situated around $86.60. A breakthrough above this level could ignite a stronger rally towards the $89.20-$90.00 zone. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou Market Analyst HMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past perfrmance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 18th April 2024. Market News – Stock markets benefit from Dollar correction. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Technical buying, bargain hunting, and risk aversion helped Treasuries rally and unwind recent losses. Yields dropped from the recent 2024 highs. Asian stock markets strengthened, as the US Dollar corrected in the wake of comments from Japan’s currency chief Masato Kanda, who said G7 countries continue to stress that excessive swings and disorderly moves in the foreign exchange market were harmful for economies. US Stockpiles expanded to 10-month high. The data overshadowed the impact of geopolitical tensions in the Middle East as traders await Israel’s response to Iran’s unprecedented recent attack. President Joe Biden called for higher tariffs on imports of Chinese steel and aluminum.   Financial Markets Performance:   The USDIndex stumbled, falling to 105.66 at the end of the day from the intraday high of 106.48. It lost ground against most of its G10 peers. There wasn’t much on the calendar to provide new direction. USDJPY lows retesting the 154 bottom! NOT an intervention yet. BoJ/MoF USDJPY intervention happens when there is more than 100+ pip move in seconds, not 50 pips. USOIL slumped by 3% near $82, as US crude inventories rose by 2.7 million barrels last week, hitting the highest level since last June, while gauges of fuel demand declined. Gold strengthened as the dollar weakened and bullion is trading at $2378.44 per ounce. Market Trends:   Wall Street closed in the red after opening with small corrective gains. The NASDAQ underperformed, slumping -1.15%, with the S&P500 -0.58% lower, while the Dow lost -0.12. The Nikkei closed 0.2% higher, the Hang Seng gained more than 1. European and US futures are finding buyers. A gauge of global chip stocks and AI bellwether Nvidia Corp. have both fallen into a technical correction. The TMSC reported its first profit rise in a year, after strong AI demand revived growth at the world’s biggest contract chipmaker. The main chipmaker to Apple Inc. and Nvidia Corp. recorded a 9% rise in net income, beating estimates. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 17th April 2024. Market News – Appetite for risk-taking remains weak. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks, Treasury yields and US Dollar stay firmed. Fed Chair Powell added to the recent sell off. His slightly more hawkish tone further priced out chances for any imminent action and the timing of a cut was pushed out further. He suggested if higher inflation does persist, the Fed will hold rates steady “for as long as needed.” Implied Fed Fund: There remains no real chance for a move on May 1 and at their intraday highs the June implied funds rate future showed only 5 bps, while July reflected only 10 bps. And a full 25 bps was not priced in until November, with 38 bps in cuts seen for 2024. US & EU Economies Diverging: Lagarde says ECB is moving toward rate cuts – if there are no major shocks. UK March CPI inflation falls less than expected. Output price inflation has started to nudge higher, despite another decline in input prices. Together with yesterday’s higher than expected wage numbers, the data will add to the arguments of the hawks at the BoE, which remain very reluctant to contemplate rate cuts. Canada CPI rose 0.6% in March, double the 0.3% February increase BUT core eased. The doors are still open for a possible cut at the next BoC meeting on June 5. IMF revised up its global growth forecast for 2024 with inflation easing, in its new World Economic Outlook. This is consistent with a global soft landing, according to the report. Financial Markets Performance:   USDJPY also inched up to 154.67 on expectations the BoJ will remain accommodative and as the market challenges a perceived 155 red line for MoF intervention. USOIL prices slipped -0.15% to $84.20 per barrel. Gold rose 0.24% to $2389.11 per ounce, a new record closing high as geopolitical risks overshadowed the impacts of rising rates and the stronger dollar. Market Trends:   Wall Street waffled either side of unchanged on the day amid dimming rate cut potential, rising yields, and earnings. The major indexes closed mixed with the Dow up 0.17%, while the S&P500 and NASDAQ lost -0.21% and -0.12%, respectively. Asian stock markets mostly corrected again, with Japanese bourses underperforming and the Nikkei down -1.3%. Mainland China bourses were a notable exception and the CSI 300 rallied 1.4%, but the MSCI Asia Pacific index came close to erasing the gains for this year. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.vvvvvvv
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.