Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

MadMarketScientist

Speculators Are Useless to Society

Recommended Posts

Hi Friva,

I would not care much. None of the people I shared my view with were laugthing.. they usually remain silent - meaning that they do not understand and/or feel that there might be some truth in it.

 

Most people are convinced they have to do something (eg trading) in order to have what they want (eg lots of money) so that they can become happy. However, the moment they have achieved "lots of money" they understand that they have not become happy and wonder.

I am convinced it is the other way round: If I can be at peace & joy, I am in such a powerful mental state so that I can follow my passion and choose whatever I want (eg lavish abundance of money). Having and Doing are predominant Ego-states that cannot nearly achieve what a powerful consciousness state can.. this is the real source to riches. Most people think this is total "nuts".. for me the only way to freedom.

People think this is not true because "trading" is a very serious fight of survival.. to me it is a game to be played. Whoever loses has the chance to improve and grow...

Does this still make sense?

 

Gabe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By attempting to predict the future, speculators provide the valuable service of helping the markets prepare for the future, enabling decisions to be made today that prepare for tomorrow.

 

Take futures markets in oil for example. When prices rise in the present because speculators look at the future and see higher oil prices in it, they are effectively transmitting valuable information from the future to the present where it can be acted upon in preparation for the future. This preparation could take the form of additional investments in new oil exploration, or in investments in alternative energy such as solar, wind, etc. It also signals people in the present that they might want to adopt technologies such as hybrid cars to conserve a resource that is becoming scarce.

 

Futures markets also help maintain price stability. Instead of waiting for a given commodity to actually get short of supply, futures enable producers and users to prepare for the future, which results in less dramatic price swings than we would otherwise see. This is illustrated in this article: CARPE DIEM: What Can Onions Teach Us About Oil Prices? which compares the price of onions (which don't have a futures market) to other commodities where futures trading is allowed.

 

And as other posters have pointed out the equity markets have a distinct purpose in helping raise and allocate capitol in the most efficient way possible.

 

It is true, though, that in our modern financial system, a great deal of the useful purpose of speculation has been replaced by various forms of rent-seeking, corruption, and manipulation by privileged parties. However the basic purpose of speculation is still a great benefit to society, because it allows people and markets to prepare for the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the great article on Onions and Oil!

 

Imagine a market with only really big players... the price would be crazy volatile.

- only block trades between a Mutual Fund and a multinational corporation

- only big quantity trades of Oil between oil companies and airlines

- only annual purchases of a farming community's grain by a cereal company

 

The market needs players of all sizes, and derivatives, to smooth prices and be effective.

Speculators make life better for everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think one of the best documentaries on Wall St is "The Alchemists Of Wall St' wherein one of the Quants stipulated that he thinks that the traders, the ones that take the real risk with their own money should be compensated some how for what they do. After all we are the grease that keeps the machine running. Without us we would be paying $20.00 for a box of Corn Flakes!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A rallying cry for bankrupt governments around the world has been "blame the speculators." It's not the reckless borrowing and spending that have driven overleveraged countries to economic crisis… It's the rumor-mongering and collusion of short sellers – those evil capitalists who profit from other people's trouble.

 

Italian politicians, including Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's aide Paolo Bonaiuti, blamed their country's deteriorating market on "speculators." Bonaiuti said Italy would be united "in blocking the effort of speculators." Do you believe investors selling Italian shares short must reveal their positions when they reach 0.2% or more of a company's capital and make new filings for each additional 0.1%. The rule runs through September 9. Consob is also considering banning naked short selling.

 

MMS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody is going histerical with speculators in Italy ... yet.

 

Consob, the italian stock market watchdog, even acknowledged that most of the stock selling is genuine and is not short selling.

 

Politicians just do what most humans do, ie blame others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They should ban it - naked.

 

I do not know if you ever thought why the crisis even started...

 

First to blame is USA's banks greediness and Alan Greenspan in my opinion...

Second "man", and crucial, that put the plug in, are the OIL speculators...

This is very long theory (just my opinion), but I will explain it shortly.

 

1. Everything was ok. People bought houses for profit or they liked it.

-

2. Second, people started buying additional houses for profit ("they got loan for nothing")

-

3. During that time, Alan kept the interest rates very low!

-

4. Once the FED realized that the bubble is present, he/they made the biggest mistake they could ever make to stop the bubble and not that big inflation. Rising interest rates!

-

5. People instead of paying $1500 loan every month (making $4000/per family), they saw an invoice from the bank for $2000 and more! If someone bought house thinking that "will be ok with the payments", "somehow we will make it", then the extra $500+ is crucial.

-

6. Oil went up from $40 to $140+, and instead of paying on gas station $100/month, they started seeing check for $300+.

-

7. Inflation went up again because of the OIL. FED increased the interest rates to the critical point, and everything got f.....

-

8. Crisis Done

-

FED/ALAN was the worst, and Speculators of the oil just increased the whole problem (inflation and interest rates), that could be easily straighten out by the market.

 

Where are the regulations for crucial products that the entire world needs - necessity?

 

Do you trade oil - ok - then please order future contracts - please pay half now, the rest later, and the oil will be delivered on the expiration date.

 

Or Make the margins high enough, to stop moving the market the way the BIG companies want.

 

Speculators are not good, if they have no interest in the product that they bet on; because for big companies it is very easy to set prices they want.

 

Do not agree? Isn't selling 1 mil of shares by specialist from wall street for the best price (they are getting commission if they sell higher) - not to driving the price lower?

 

If the free market/speculators very really moving the prices as it should be not keeping

others - small players thinking that everything is ok - a sick speculation?

Only when very bad news are coming, they have no chance to keep the price (almost),

otherwise they can sell 1 mil share in one day, and nobody will even know that - still

holding or buying that security. This is not a healthy speculation - this is fake,

that does nothing good to the economy, but makes the "people - economy" poor.

Because we pay for it later. In taxes or the stores - not the government or citi group that

took money from gov at 0% interest, and f... the whole business.

The top management still have millions in the pocket anyway...

 

Take care.

 

 

 

spy.png

SPY.png.32d550d017f0f9b2d430d0a1bd151aac.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Everything was ok.

 

Ha! That's what people always think until it's not! Always the way.

 

These things may have been the trigger, but like the Archduke Franz Ferdinand, they were also not the cause. I'll give you the mishandled interest rates, but oil prices weren't a decider. I'd also point the finger at the government and the public for speculation in housing. I mean, what did they think was going to happen if they said "just tell us what you earn but you don't have to prove it" to people who wanted a mortgage? So many dumb ass things that people were and are doing for short term gain. Dodgy government policies, global economic realignment and so many other things that go on all the time which for the most part people are unaware of until way after the fact. Most you'll never even hear of. Just one last point on the whole oil thing, if the whole move up was purely speculation, why are we now trading around $100 a barrel?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why we have 100?, because we have no regulations and too many big companies that hold the price. If the gov would say tomorrow that all contracts have to have 100% security (money on account that the contract is worth) then you would see the price 50, no more. We do not have problems with oil, and have it even more than we thought ( do not tell about cost of deeping)... This price is a fake that would change once we put real regulations in place: like real delivery of oil (this is where from the futures contracts came from - right)? So why we try to regulate market with money that we do not have - fake money = leverage). We all agree that the market regulate itself - yes, that is true, but not betting using fake money - laverage again.

 

Take care,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • also ... and barely on topic... Winners (always*) overpay. Buying the dips is a subscription to the belief that winners win by underpaying - when in actuality winners (inevitably/always*) win by overpaying... it’s amazing the percentage of traders who think winners win by underpaying ... “Winners (always*) overpay.” ...  One way to implement this ‘belief’ is to only reenter when prices have emphatically resumed the 'trend' .   (Fwiw, While “Winners (always*) overpay.” holds true in most endeavors (relationships, business, sports, etc...) - “Winners (always*) overpay.”  is especially true for auctions... continuous auctions included.)
    • re:  "Does it make sense to always buy the dips?  “Buy the dip.”  You hear this all the time in crypto investing trading speculation gambling. [zdo taking some liberties] It refers, of course, to buying more bitcoin (or digital assets) when they go down in price: when the price “dips.” Some people brag about “buying the dip," showing they know better than the crowd. Others “buy the dip” as an investment strategy: they’re getting a bargain. The problem is, buying the dip is a fallacy. You can’t buy the dip, because you can't see the total dip until much later. First, I’ll explain this in a way that will make it simple and obvious to you; then I’ll show you a better way of investing. You Only Know the Dip in Hindsight When people talk about “buying the dip,” what they’re really saying is, “I bought when the price was going down.” " ... example of a dip ... 
    • Date: 19th April 2024. Weekly Commodity Market Update: Oil Prices Correct and Supply Concerns Persist.   The ongoing developments in the Middle East sparked a wave of risk aversion and fueled supply concerns and investors headed for safety. Hopes for imminent rate cuts from the Federal Reserve diminish while attention is now turning towards the demand outlook. The Gold price hit a high of $2417.89 per ounce overnight. Sentiment has already calmed down again and bullion is trading at $2376.50 per ounce as haven flows ease. Oil prices initially moved higher as concern over escalating tensions with the WTI contract hit a session high of $85.508 per barrel overnight, before correcting to currently $81.45 per barrel. Oil Prices Under Pressure Amid Middle East Tensions Last week, commodity indexes showed little movement, with Oil prices undergoing a slight correction. Meanwhile, Gold reached yet another record high, mirroring the upward trend in cocoa prices. Once again today, USOil prices experienced a correction and has remained under pressure, retesting the 50-day EMA at $81.00 as we moving into the weekend. Hence, despite the Israel’s retaliatory strike on Iran, sentiments stabilized following reports suggesting a measured response aimed at avoiding further escalation. Brent crude futures witnessed a more than 4% leap, driven by concerns over potential disruptions to oil supplies in the Middle East, only to subsequently erase all gains. Similarly with USOIL, UKOIL hovers just below $87 per barrel, marginally below Thursday’s closing figures. Nevertheless, volatility is expected to continue in the market as several potential risks loom:   Disruption to the Strait of Hormuz: The possibility of Iran disrupting navigation through the vital shipping lane, is still in play. The Strait of Hormuz serves as the Persian Gulf’s primary route to international waters, with approximately 21 million barrels of oil passing through daily. Recent events, including Iran’s seizure of an Israel-linked container ship, underscore the geopolitical sensitivity of the region. Tougher Sanctions on Iran: Analysts speculate that the US may impose stricter sanctions on Iranian oil exports or intensify enforcement of existing restrictions. With global oil consumption reaching 102 million barrels per day, Iran’s production of 3.3 million barrels remains significant. Recent actions targeting Venezuelan oil highlight the potential for increased pressure on Iranian exports. OPEC Output Increases: Despite the desire for higher prices, OPEC members such as Saudi Arabia and Russia have constrained output in recent years. However, sustained crude prices above $100 per barrel could prompt concerns about demand and incentivize increased production. The OPEC may opt to boost oil output should tensions escalate further and prices surge. Ukraine Conflict: Amidst the focus on the Middle East, markets overlooking Russia’s actions in Ukraine. Potential retaliatory strikes by Kyiv on Russian oil infrastructure could impact exports, adding further complexity to global oil markets.   Technical Analysis USOIL is marking one of the steepest weekly declines witnessed this year after a brief period of consolidation. The breach below the pivotal support level of 84.00, coupled with the descent below the mid of the 4-month upchannel, signals a possible shift in market sentiment towards a bearish trend reversal. Adding to the bearish outlook are indications such as the downward slope in the RSI. However, the asset still hold above the 50-day EMA which coincides also with the mid of last year’s downleg, with key support zone at $80.00-$81.00. If it breaks this support zone, the focus may shift towards the 200-day EMA and 38.2% Fib. level at $77.60-$79.00. Conversely, a rejection of the $81 level and an upside potential could see the price returning back to $84.00. A break of the latter could trigger the attention back to the December’s resistance, situated around $86.60. A breakthrough above this level could ignite a stronger rally towards the $89.20-$90.00 zone. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou Market Analyst HMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past perfrmance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 18th April 2024. Market News – Stock markets benefit from Dollar correction. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Technical buying, bargain hunting, and risk aversion helped Treasuries rally and unwind recent losses. Yields dropped from the recent 2024 highs. Asian stock markets strengthened, as the US Dollar corrected in the wake of comments from Japan’s currency chief Masato Kanda, who said G7 countries continue to stress that excessive swings and disorderly moves in the foreign exchange market were harmful for economies. US Stockpiles expanded to 10-month high. The data overshadowed the impact of geopolitical tensions in the Middle East as traders await Israel’s response to Iran’s unprecedented recent attack. President Joe Biden called for higher tariffs on imports of Chinese steel and aluminum.   Financial Markets Performance:   The USDIndex stumbled, falling to 105.66 at the end of the day from the intraday high of 106.48. It lost ground against most of its G10 peers. There wasn’t much on the calendar to provide new direction. USDJPY lows retesting the 154 bottom! NOT an intervention yet. BoJ/MoF USDJPY intervention happens when there is more than 100+ pip move in seconds, not 50 pips. USOIL slumped by 3% near $82, as US crude inventories rose by 2.7 million barrels last week, hitting the highest level since last June, while gauges of fuel demand declined. Gold strengthened as the dollar weakened and bullion is trading at $2378.44 per ounce. Market Trends:   Wall Street closed in the red after opening with small corrective gains. The NASDAQ underperformed, slumping -1.15%, with the S&P500 -0.58% lower, while the Dow lost -0.12. The Nikkei closed 0.2% higher, the Hang Seng gained more than 1. European and US futures are finding buyers. A gauge of global chip stocks and AI bellwether Nvidia Corp. have both fallen into a technical correction. The TMSC reported its first profit rise in a year, after strong AI demand revived growth at the world’s biggest contract chipmaker. The main chipmaker to Apple Inc. and Nvidia Corp. recorded a 9% rise in net income, beating estimates. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 17th April 2024. Market News – Appetite for risk-taking remains weak. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks, Treasury yields and US Dollar stay firmed. Fed Chair Powell added to the recent sell off. His slightly more hawkish tone further priced out chances for any imminent action and the timing of a cut was pushed out further. He suggested if higher inflation does persist, the Fed will hold rates steady “for as long as needed.” Implied Fed Fund: There remains no real chance for a move on May 1 and at their intraday highs the June implied funds rate future showed only 5 bps, while July reflected only 10 bps. And a full 25 bps was not priced in until November, with 38 bps in cuts seen for 2024. US & EU Economies Diverging: Lagarde says ECB is moving toward rate cuts – if there are no major shocks. UK March CPI inflation falls less than expected. Output price inflation has started to nudge higher, despite another decline in input prices. Together with yesterday’s higher than expected wage numbers, the data will add to the arguments of the hawks at the BoE, which remain very reluctant to contemplate rate cuts. Canada CPI rose 0.6% in March, double the 0.3% February increase BUT core eased. The doors are still open for a possible cut at the next BoC meeting on June 5. IMF revised up its global growth forecast for 2024 with inflation easing, in its new World Economic Outlook. This is consistent with a global soft landing, according to the report. Financial Markets Performance:   USDJPY also inched up to 154.67 on expectations the BoJ will remain accommodative and as the market challenges a perceived 155 red line for MoF intervention. USOIL prices slipped -0.15% to $84.20 per barrel. Gold rose 0.24% to $2389.11 per ounce, a new record closing high as geopolitical risks overshadowed the impacts of rising rates and the stronger dollar. Market Trends:   Wall Street waffled either side of unchanged on the day amid dimming rate cut potential, rising yields, and earnings. The major indexes closed mixed with the Dow up 0.17%, while the S&P500 and NASDAQ lost -0.21% and -0.12%, respectively. Asian stock markets mostly corrected again, with Japanese bourses underperforming and the Nikkei down -1.3%. Mainland China bourses were a notable exception and the CSI 300 rallied 1.4%, but the MSCI Asia Pacific index came close to erasing the gains for this year. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.vvvvvvv
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.