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timsingapore

Confused Trader.

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I am determined to be a stocks trader as my life-time career,but recently I am wondering should I go and become a stocks broker to know more about the business of trading.Some of my friends say I should,because they think there's no better way than getting to "ground zero" and understand the stuff which I agree as well. However, from what I know about the job of brokers is they are mainly executing the client's orders and not so much involving trading.I am confused and really don't know would it really help my career.

 

Please advise.

Thank you!

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Hi timsingapore,

 

If you are a stock "broker" than you would have the ability to fill clients orders in hope to make a small percentage either with commissions, fees and or stock price movements. Nevertheless, you could also do personal trading on the side. Nowadays, its not an impossible dream to trade stock personally through online trading accounts (ameritrade, scott trade, etc). I am a firm believer that the best way to learn is through personal experience and as well as the lessons you learn from other's experiences. Whether you go at it alone or decide to take classes and study to be a stock broker; either way you must become a diligent student. It won't be easy and expect to take losses early until you have a well defined enter and exit trading strategy.

 

*Good Luck on your next trade*

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I am determined to be a stocks trader as my life-time career,but recently I am wondering should I go and become a stocks broker to know more about the business of trading.Some of my friends say I should,because they think there's no better way than getting to "ground zero" and understand the stuff which I agree as well. However, from what I know about the job of brokers is they are mainly executing the client's orders and not so much involving trading.I am confused and really don't know would it really help my career.

 

Please advise.

Thank you!

 

If you become a stock broker, you are 100% in sales. Your manager will likely take your chair away from you if he sees you doing anything other than making phone calls. When you start you have no clients to make trades for so it is call, call call. Maybe in 2-5 years when you have built a book of business and specialized in one area of the other you can think about being allowed to trade your own account, but at that point you will be making far more money as a broker than you likely ever will traing your account.

 

If they do let you trade your account, it's a poorly run office and neither you nor they will survive for long as brokers. If you do not want to sell, do not bother.

 

I have been a broker since 1988.

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My ex-wife became a broker with Edward Jones. The office failed after 2 years. I agree with Mighty Mouse, that it is all about sales. Being a broker is not necessarily going to make you a good investor or a good trader. Sure, you will have resources available to you, and you will learn a lot about the industry. But you won't learn anything about trading. As a broker, you will need to be able to execute trades, but that won't make you a trader.

To be successful either way you go, you need time and money. 90% to 94% of all traders fail. My opinion is, that you need about 3 years and enough money to get you through those 3 years. It's not that people are not capable of being brokers or traders, but most of them run out of time and money before they reach success.

If you can get a broker to sponsor you, and you pass your licensing test, it might not be a bad experience no matter what happens. If you do become a broker, location is everything. You must be able to integrate with the community and relate to them very closely.

There is a failure rate and a certain amount of risk in anything we do. Do what fits you and what you like doing.

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I'm glad I was able to give you some insight. Remember to spread the knowledge. An inexperience person will never remove the "i-n" without applying what the basic fundamentals of the experience.

 

*Good luck on your next trade"

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I am determined to be a stocks trader as my life-time career,but recently I am wondering should I go and become a stocks broker to know more about the business of trading.Some of my friends say I should,because they think there's no better way than getting to "ground zero" and understand the stuff which I agree as well. However, from what I know about the job of brokers is they are mainly executing the client's orders and not so much involving trading.I am confused and really don't know would it really help my career.

 

Please advise.

Thank you!

 

I think every trader has this thought at some stage Tim, I know I put the same question to my mentor many years back (he's a former broker, stupid idea he said), but finding a less stressful source of income that lets you be free to trade when you want, and how you want, while paying the bills so your account can compound without you drawing it down, is the best solution.

 

Just stick at it, gaining experience in different market conditions is one of the keys, and only time can open that door for you.

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If you're going to trade stocks then I'd suggest you get real good at trading vsa set ups. Volume spread analysis, theres also good info on this from e-mini trading, you'll have to search as its a pay product (well some stuff is free) and I can't advertise it here.

 

Anyway the point is get good at volume and candle analysis.

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If you're going to trade stocks then I'd suggest you get real good at trading vsa set ups. Volume spread analysis, theres also good info on this from e-mini trading, you'll have to search as its a pay product (well some stuff is free) and I can't advertise it here.

 

Anyway the point is get good at volume and candle analysis.

 

VSA, like most other indicators, is more useful as a marketing gimmick by those who can't turn a $ with their own account to rope in unsuspecting wanna be traders than anything else. But nice try...

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VSA, like most other indicators, is more useful as a marketing gimmick by those who can't turn a $ with their own account to rope in unsuspecting wanna be traders than anything else. But nice try...

 

Couldn't disagree with you more strongly. I'm not suggesting pay for a thing.

 

Go and search Malcolmb (unfortunately at another website) to see how you can get great vsa info for free. Go argue with him whether VSA is any good or not I won't waste my time.

 

In stocks as the markets are centralised vsa gives great info and will help you analyse candles much better.

 

Bottom line to the person asking the original question, volume gives you hints to what the pros are doing and theres loads of info for free.

 

Nice try ??????????? Not trying a thing.

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Couldn't disagree with you more strongly. I'm not suggesting pay for a thing.

 

Go and search Malcolmb (unfortunately at another website) to see how you can get great vsa info for free. Go argue with him whether VSA is any good or not I won't waste my time.

 

In stocks as the markets are centralised vsa gives great info and will help you analyse candles much better.

 

Bottom line to the person asking the original question, volume gives you hints to what the pros are doing and theres loads of info for free.

 

Nice try ??????????? Not trying a thing.

 

Volume has it's place, and I agree it is probably most useful in Equities trading, but it's well down the check list of what makes a system a winner.

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Volume has it's place, and I agree it is probably most useful in Equities trading, but it's well down the check list of what makes a system a winner.

 

In your humble opinion.

 

In my humble opinion for stocks its high on the check list of what makes a winning system.

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My check list is pretty short.

 

I'll admit to having lost interest in our nice little chat but as a final contribution to the debate.

 

3 point checklist of vsa traders to trade stocks and yes fx:

 

VSA.

VSA.

VSA.

 

Obviously others disagree as is their right.

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I never wanted to be a stock broker, but now enjoy trading full time. I trade some stocks with my indicators, but mostly the futures markets. If I had more time, I would look at stocks more, but I am making enough money with Futures. Then there is the whole, why trade the stocks when you can make a higher percentage return trading the options.

 

So, my next quest is to learn all about Weekly Options. My Son has a professor that is making a lot of money on APPL Weekly Options, from what he tells his students. Maybe I will start another thread.

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Weekly is very cool. Minimal effort, absorbs most of the noise. Great returns if you ride the trend all the way. CFD's or LEAPS keep your capital free to trade your futures etc on the side.

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I'm glad I was able to give you some insight. Remember to spread the knowledge. An inexperience person will never remove the "i-n" without applying what the basic fundamentals of the experience.

 

*Good luck on your next trade"

 

Absolutely agreed,hope i can be good enough and share some of my insight to other traders like you guys did some day.

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Go and search Malcolmb (unfortunately at another website) to see how you can get great vsa info for free.

 

 

 

No need to go that far. There are three VSA threads here running into many thousand posts on the topic. The threads are dormant now but amongst the mire there are some pearls.

 

Stear clear of tradeguider and all there over priced product and it costs nothing though investing the $50 odd bucks in the original book won't break the bank.

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I also thought I wanted to be a stock broker at a certain point, but that was before I found out that a broker is basically a seller.

 

Watch Wall Street Warriors and you will quickly see the difference between traders and brokers.

 

Anyway, you will probably need a job while you learn the ropes, so working in the industry as a broker until you can make it as a trader (if you ever do, it`s hard) is not a bad idea if you like that type of work.

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No need to go that far. There are three VSA threads here running into many thousand posts on the topic. The threads are dormant now but amongst the mire there are some pearls.

 

Stear clear of tradeguider and all there over priced product and it costs nothing though investing the $50 odd bucks in the original book won't break the bank.

 

I've often wondered if some of those massively long threads on certain topics mean that whatever they are trying to do is far too complex, and so "open for interpretation", that by the time it works for them, they are actually doing something else anyway which is the real reason they are making money. "You know that indicator only ever works if you do X & Y first, then it's brilliant" :rofl:

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A very valid point. Denise Schull (trading psychology woman) said somewhere early in her material that if you can't write down an outline of each of your strategies in 2 or 3 sentences they are probably too complex. I am not sure I would go quite that far but I am inclined to agree.

 

VSA is actually reasonably straightforward though there are maybe 8 or 9 'principles'. (Tradeguider has somehow simplified that into 450 or so 'indicators').

 

The original book was poorly written and had a number of errata, though they where kind of obvious if you spent a bit of time with it. Not only that, even way back when it was little known, it attracted charlatans (one is described in detail at the start of another trading psychology book by Mike Elvin).

 

Fast forward to now and you have the TG circus, you have to credit their marketing which has raises the profile of VSA enormously however to keep feeding the beast they need to keep selling software and education. To do that it is in their interest to maintain some mystique and complexity whilst offering to dispel that (if you pay).

 

Anyway going back to the threads, a lot of the posts where people looking for 'the secret', and of course being a forum there where plenty of 'experts' to oblige (though as often the case it was the blind leading the blind). A large part was simply people posting charts and analysis and discussion, again that's often the meat and potato of massive threads (and nothing wrong with that). As usual the real gems get buried amongst the general chatter and outright BS. Having said that those gems are there and an astute reader would learn who to pay attention to quite quickly. (There was also odd bits of drama that where quite entertaining!)

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Having said that those gems are there and an astute reader would learn who to pay attention to quite quickly.

 

I have observed from my own journey that our astuteness at decoding trader talk increases exponentially according to our experience over time though :)

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Hi "Confused Trader".

 

I have been a stockbroker for twenty years and the advantage of being so, form a trading perspective, is that you are kind of paid to watch the market action and act on it. That's a good training provided that you pay attention to the action (I know many brokers that never did that and know nothing about trading). You can also learn something from interaction with the clients, if they are bright and successful in their trading. The bottom line is that anything that puts you in contact with the market on a continuous basis will be good for you if you are willing to learn.

 

Hope this helps

Best

F

 

PS: you are not a "confused trader", you are a "trader with a question". Never ever under-rate you. Never ever over-rate you.

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    • Date: 17th April 2024. Market News – Appetite for risk-taking remains weak. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks, Treasury yields and US Dollar stay firmed. Fed Chair Powell added to the recent sell off. His slightly more hawkish tone further priced out chances for any imminent action and the timing of a cut was pushed out further. He suggested if higher inflation does persist, the Fed will hold rates steady “for as long as needed.” Implied Fed Fund: There remains no real chance for a move on May 1 and at their intraday highs the June implied funds rate future showed only 5 bps, while July reflected only 10 bps. And a full 25 bps was not priced in until November, with 38 bps in cuts seen for 2024. US & EU Economies Diverging: Lagarde says ECB is moving toward rate cuts – if there are no major shocks. UK March CPI inflation falls less than expected. Output price inflation has started to nudge higher, despite another decline in input prices. Together with yesterday’s higher than expected wage numbers, the data will add to the arguments of the hawks at the BoE, which remain very reluctant to contemplate rate cuts. Canada CPI rose 0.6% in March, double the 0.3% February increase BUT core eased. The doors are still open for a possible cut at the next BoC meeting on June 5. IMF revised up its global growth forecast for 2024 with inflation easing, in its new World Economic Outlook. This is consistent with a global soft landing, according to the report. Financial Markets Performance:   USDJPY also inched up to 154.67 on expectations the BoJ will remain accommodative and as the market challenges a perceived 155 red line for MoF intervention. USOIL prices slipped -0.15% to $84.20 per barrel. Gold rose 0.24% to $2389.11 per ounce, a new record closing high as geopolitical risks overshadowed the impacts of rising rates and the stronger dollar. Market Trends:   Wall Street waffled either side of unchanged on the day amid dimming rate cut potential, rising yields, and earnings. The major indexes closed mixed with the Dow up 0.17%, while the S&P500 and NASDAQ lost -0.21% and -0.12%, respectively. Asian stock markets mostly corrected again, with Japanese bourses underperforming and the Nikkei down -1.3%. Mainland China bourses were a notable exception and the CSI 300 rallied 1.4%, but the MSCI Asia Pacific index came close to erasing the gains for this year. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.vvvvvvv
    • Date: 16th April 2024. Market News – Stocks and currencies sell off; USD up. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks and currencies sell off, while the US Dollar picks up haven flows. Treasuries yields spiked again to fresh 2024 peaks before paring losses into the close, post, the stronger than expected retail sales eliciting a broad sell off in the markets. Rates surged as the data pushed rate cut bets further into the future with July now less than a 50-50 chance. Wall Street finished with steep declines led by tech. Stocks opened in the green on a relief trade after Israel repulsed the well advertised attack from Iran on Sunday. But equities turned sharply lower and extended last week’s declines amid the rise in yields. Investor concerns were intensified as Israel threatened retaliation. There’s growing anxiety over earnings even after a big beat from Goldman Sachs. UK labor market data was mixed, as the ILO unemployment rate unexpectedly lifted, while wage growth came in higher than anticipated – The data suggests that the labor market is catching up with the recession. Mixed messages then for the BoE. China grew by 5.3% in Q1 however the numbers are causing a lot of doubts over sustainability of this growth. The bounce came in the first 2 months of the year. In March, growth in retail sales slumped and industrial output decelerated below forecasts, suggesting challenges on the horizon. Today: Germany ZEW, US housing starts & industrial production, Fed Vice Chair Philip Jefferson speech, BOE Bailey speech & IMF outlook. Earnings releases: Morgan Stanley and Bank of America. Financial Markets Performance:   The US Dollar rallied to 106.19 after testing 106.25, gaining against JPY and rising to 154.23, despite intervention risk. Yen traders started to see the 160 mark as the next Resistance level. Gold surged 1.76% to $2386 per ounce amid geopolitical risks and Chinese buying, even as the USD firmed and yields climbed. USOIL is flat at $85 per barrel. Market Trends:   Breaks of key technical levels exacerbated the sell off. Tech was the big loser with the NASDAQ plunging -1.79% to 15,885 while the S&P500 dropped -1.20% to 5061, with the Dow sliding -0.65% to 37,735. The S&P had the biggest 2-day sell off since March 2023. Nikkei and ASX lost -1.9% and -1.8% respectively, and the Hang Seng is down -2.1%. European bourses are down more than -1% and US futures are also in the red. CTA selling tsunami: “Just a few points lower CTAs will for the first time this year start selling in size, to add insult to injury, we are breaking major trend-lines in equities and the gamma stabilizer is totally gone.” Short term CTA threshold levels are kicking in big time according to GS. Medium term is 4873 (most important) while the long term level is at 4605. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 15th April 2024. Market News – Negative Reversion; Safe Havens Rally. Trading Leveraged Products is risky Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Markets weigh risk of retaliation cycle in Middle East. Initially the retaliatory strike from Iran on Israel fostered a haven bid, into bonds, gold and other haven assets, as it threatens a wider regional conflict. However, this morning, Oil and Asian equity markets were muted as traders shrugged off fears of a war escalation in the Middle East. Iran said “the matter can be deemed concluded”, and President Joe Biden has called on Israel to exercise restraint following Iran’s drone and missile strike, as part of Washington’s efforts to ease tensions in the Middle East and minimize the likelihood of a widespread regional conflict. New US and UK sanctions banned deliveries of Russian supplies, i.e. key industrial metals, produced after midnight on Friday. Aluminum jumped 9.4%, nickel rose 8.8%, suggesting brokers are bracing for major supply chain disruption. Financial Markets Performance:   The USDIndex fell back from highs over 106 to currently 105.70. The Yen dip against USD to 153.85. USOIL settled lower at 84.50 per barrel and Gold is trading below session highs at currently $2357.92 per ounce. Copper, more liquid and driven by the global economy over recent weeks, was more subdued this morning. Currently at $4.3180. Market Trends:   Asian stock markets traded mixed, but European and US futures are slightly higher after a tough session on Friday and yields have picked up. Mainland China bourses outperformed overnight, after Beijing offered renewed regulatory support. The PBOC meanwhile left the 1-year MLF rate unchanged, while once again draining funds from the system. Nikkei slipped 1% to 39,114.19. On Friday, NASDAQ slumped -1.62% to 16,175, unwinding most of Thursday’s 1.68% jump to a new all-time high at 16,442. The S&P500 fell -1.46% and the Dow dropped 1.24%. Declines were broadbased with all 11 sectors of the S&P finishing in the red. JPMorgan Chase sank 6.5% despite reporting stronger profit in Q1. The nation’s largest bank gave a forecast for a key source of income this year that fell below Wall Street’s estimate, calling for only modest growth. Apple shipments drop by 10% in Q1. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
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