Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Dinerotrader

Oil Trading

Recommended Posts

Gold and Oil

 

Just curious if anyone uses gold and oil as indicators for the other since they are often very correlated markets.

 

Here is the chart for both gold and oil from part of today. I noted the time 7:25 on both charts which is arizona time, add 3 for ET. Oil was doing a lot of consolidating moves but I was watching gold and it gave me a slight leaning to the long side. I ended up taking a long just before the move and got 62 ticks. Just curious if anyone else uses other markets as an indicator for oil or whatever they trade and if anyone sees any legitimacy to employing such a method.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=20772&stc=1&d=1272384648

attachment.php?attachmentid=20773&stc=1&d=1272384648

5aa70ffdb9ab9_4-27-201003.thumb.png.eec8a8b8fc7de45c50224adb25d1dd65.png

5aa70ffdc155a_4-27-201002.thumb.png.8f87d59c239200fe4f3307dbcbd3e80d.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just curious if anyone else uses other markets as an indicator for oil or whatever they trade and if anyone sees any legitimacy to employing such a method.

]

 

I'll post this one since you mentioned whatever someone else may trade, here is an example of inverse correlation between the Treasuries (ZF) and the Equities (NQ).today. BTW, Your Oil - Gold is a good one.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=20793&stc=1&d=1272421543

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=20794&stc=1&d=1272421543

chart1.jpg.5570b4db3ee6fe681574bd7513e5346b.jpg

chart2.jpg.0e8ee8b718ea3e2f7b128ff4f854eebd.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been really busy with oil lately and haven't gotten around to posting much. I wonder when we'll finally stop this dramatic slide downward. The most frustrating part lately has been that oil has made a lot of big moves outside of RTH.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=21157&stc=1&d=1274824268

5aa7100ace5a2_5-25-201017.thumb.png.80b9f11706795c56786ae1d1d587150e.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some serious volatility on oil today. I don't currently trade to catch these huge moves so this was not good for me in general.

 

NOTE: Inventory is NOT on Wednesday this week. It comes out on Thursday this week at 11:00 ET.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=21247&stc=1&d=1275431487

5aa7100da9f1f_6-1-201009.thumb.png.ca9e437a33cb64d3ae15144ddc7288c0.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a quick look at crude. Given the lower highs, I would like to play a break down below 71.64, but I will play a break up above 72.95 too, albeit much less aggressively.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=21255&stc=1&d=1275473648

CL.png.e40d2b2d38bfa5de9195d1423cd6fa4f.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just a quick look at crude. Given the lower highs, I would like to play a break down below 71.64, but I will play a break up above 72.95 too, albeit much less aggressively.

 

Got owned try to play the long. Level got chopped up. I would still like to play a breakdown below 71.64 though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just thought I would share.

Ouch. bought back, shorted again, bought back. Running one short......

then there is slippage on the last lot..... 14 ticks..... wow there must have been some sort of inventory number :)

(makes the idea of backtesting v reality interesting, and sometimes I wonder why I trade through numbers....net net its probably break even)

Never chased the long..... sometimes I hate this job.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=21291&stc=1&d=1275578093

5aa7100ec8d51_oilchop.jpg.17b7ad88f521a2e2166bdc9c9099ef24.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought I might share this setup I am currently using in Oil.

Its nothing knew, it takes a fair bit of patience and waiting, but it offers a reasonable way of entering (or so it seems to for me :))

Basically using a 5 tick range chart (anything else would probably work also if it captures enough to complete a swing)

 

1) wait for what you expect is a buy zone

2) wait for an abc down

3) entry on the next abc up (in this case I pre-empted it and snuck in early)

 

The red lines are the swing high points. I ideally would like to see these get taken out and then to me the down move is complete to let the swing up ride. Exit is whatever trailing stop you care to use.

I hope it is self explanatory.

The worst thing about this setup is the waiting and determining a buy zone (based on previous days bases), also note that there was an initial entry that stopped me out as well.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=21357&stc=1&d=1275993466

BaseBuyZone.jpg.45b77433f9d8b2c57c78cc1e38c15cea.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

72.40 certainly is a nice flipped area. IMHO there was a little too much acceptance above 72.40 itself. There was a test to 72.59 and one to 72.50. I was hoping we would get another perfect rejection at 72.40 today, then I could try to a BO above it tomorrow or tonight. But alas the level has been all violated up by after hours trading. Just my two cents.

 

I like a breakout below 70.75 personally. I had qualms about it because there was that probe down to 70.63. But the other 3 tests of the level have all caused major reactions in price and were all within 1 or 2 ticks from each other. That along with the fact that 70.75 was a pretty major area during the end of last month. And of course the larger trend being down (at least how I see it) makes me much more aggressive in pursuing it.

 

I actually decided to be aggressive and short a break below the level this morning. Price came within 3 ticks of my sell stop before again finding support and rallying all the way back up. Specific S/R levels FTW! With an ill defined S/R zone that wouldn't have been possible...or at least not very likely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, Siuya,

You don't use anyting other than price action and swings high and low? I love range bars on CL I use range of 6, but I have some other indicators. I will try and post a better picture from my trading tomorrow. Let's see if we can have our own race here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for this thread!

I trade CL every day. Yesterday was tight and I had two very small winners. Then it finally broke above 76 with some action. This was my final trade. My trade plan is two wins and positive, then I am done. Today, on inventory day I wait till after the news then trade. I might take one before 9am if we get some good price action off the 8:30 news. Will let you know later.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d837b3127ccefa355d1cfc6900000030O08EbtmjVq3Zg9vPhY/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

 

Sorry about the picture. I will read up on how to post one better.

Edited by WorldTrader
picture not so good

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is your experience on slippage on stop loss orders for real $ oiltrades?

 

Im currently getting to know oil a little bid better on a simulator and Im experiencing

an average slippage of about 1,3 cent.

 

On the simulator, I havent experienced a big olispike against me yet.

So for the time beeing I have set my long term expectation for slippage on stoporders to 1,5cents.

 

I this in your view a reasonable estimate for real $ trades?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What is your experience on slippage on stop loss orders for real $ oiltrades?

 

Im currently getting to know oil a little bid better on a simulator and Im experiencing

an average slippage of about 1,3 cent.

 

On the simulator, I havent experienced a big olispike against me yet.

So for the time beeing I have set my long term expectation for slippage on stoporders to 1,5cents.

 

I this in your view a reasonable estimate for real $ trades?

 

change your stops to stop limit orders instead of stop market orders and you shouldn't have any slippage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • also ... and barely on topic... Winners (always*) overpay. Buying the dips is a subscription to the belief that winners win by underpaying - when in actuality winners (inevitably/always*) win by overpaying... it’s amazing the percentage of traders who think winners win by underpaying ... “Winners (always*) overpay.” ...  One way to implement this ‘belief’ is to only reenter when prices have emphatically resumed the 'trend' .   (Fwiw, While “Winners (always*) overpay.” holds true in most endeavors (relationships, business, sports, etc...) - “Winners (always*) overpay.”  is especially true for auctions... continuous auctions included.)
    • re:  "Does it make sense to always buy the dips?  “Buy the dip.”  You hear this all the time in crypto investing trading speculation gambling. [zdo taking some liberties] It refers, of course, to buying more bitcoin (or digital assets) when they go down in price: when the price “dips.” Some people brag about “buying the dip," showing they know better than the crowd. Others “buy the dip” as an investment strategy: they’re getting a bargain. The problem is, buying the dip is a fallacy. You can’t buy the dip, because you can't see the total dip until much later. First, I’ll explain this in a way that will make it simple and obvious to you; then I’ll show you a better way of investing. You Only Know the Dip in Hindsight When people talk about “buying the dip,” what they’re really saying is, “I bought when the price was going down.” " ... example of a dip ... 
    • Date: 19th April 2024. Weekly Commodity Market Update: Oil Prices Correct and Supply Concerns Persist.   The ongoing developments in the Middle East sparked a wave of risk aversion and fueled supply concerns and investors headed for safety. Hopes for imminent rate cuts from the Federal Reserve diminish while attention is now turning towards the demand outlook. The Gold price hit a high of $2417.89 per ounce overnight. Sentiment has already calmed down again and bullion is trading at $2376.50 per ounce as haven flows ease. Oil prices initially moved higher as concern over escalating tensions with the WTI contract hit a session high of $85.508 per barrel overnight, before correcting to currently $81.45 per barrel. Oil Prices Under Pressure Amid Middle East Tensions Last week, commodity indexes showed little movement, with Oil prices undergoing a slight correction. Meanwhile, Gold reached yet another record high, mirroring the upward trend in cocoa prices. Once again today, USOil prices experienced a correction and has remained under pressure, retesting the 50-day EMA at $81.00 as we moving into the weekend. Hence, despite the Israel’s retaliatory strike on Iran, sentiments stabilized following reports suggesting a measured response aimed at avoiding further escalation. Brent crude futures witnessed a more than 4% leap, driven by concerns over potential disruptions to oil supplies in the Middle East, only to subsequently erase all gains. Similarly with USOIL, UKOIL hovers just below $87 per barrel, marginally below Thursday’s closing figures. Nevertheless, volatility is expected to continue in the market as several potential risks loom:   Disruption to the Strait of Hormuz: The possibility of Iran disrupting navigation through the vital shipping lane, is still in play. The Strait of Hormuz serves as the Persian Gulf’s primary route to international waters, with approximately 21 million barrels of oil passing through daily. Recent events, including Iran’s seizure of an Israel-linked container ship, underscore the geopolitical sensitivity of the region. Tougher Sanctions on Iran: Analysts speculate that the US may impose stricter sanctions on Iranian oil exports or intensify enforcement of existing restrictions. With global oil consumption reaching 102 million barrels per day, Iran’s production of 3.3 million barrels remains significant. Recent actions targeting Venezuelan oil highlight the potential for increased pressure on Iranian exports. OPEC Output Increases: Despite the desire for higher prices, OPEC members such as Saudi Arabia and Russia have constrained output in recent years. However, sustained crude prices above $100 per barrel could prompt concerns about demand and incentivize increased production. The OPEC may opt to boost oil output should tensions escalate further and prices surge. Ukraine Conflict: Amidst the focus on the Middle East, markets overlooking Russia’s actions in Ukraine. Potential retaliatory strikes by Kyiv on Russian oil infrastructure could impact exports, adding further complexity to global oil markets.   Technical Analysis USOIL is marking one of the steepest weekly declines witnessed this year after a brief period of consolidation. The breach below the pivotal support level of 84.00, coupled with the descent below the mid of the 4-month upchannel, signals a possible shift in market sentiment towards a bearish trend reversal. Adding to the bearish outlook are indications such as the downward slope in the RSI. However, the asset still hold above the 50-day EMA which coincides also with the mid of last year’s downleg, with key support zone at $80.00-$81.00. If it breaks this support zone, the focus may shift towards the 200-day EMA and 38.2% Fib. level at $77.60-$79.00. Conversely, a rejection of the $81 level and an upside potential could see the price returning back to $84.00. A break of the latter could trigger the attention back to the December’s resistance, situated around $86.60. A breakthrough above this level could ignite a stronger rally towards the $89.20-$90.00 zone. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou Market Analyst HMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past perfrmance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 18th April 2024. Market News – Stock markets benefit from Dollar correction. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Technical buying, bargain hunting, and risk aversion helped Treasuries rally and unwind recent losses. Yields dropped from the recent 2024 highs. Asian stock markets strengthened, as the US Dollar corrected in the wake of comments from Japan’s currency chief Masato Kanda, who said G7 countries continue to stress that excessive swings and disorderly moves in the foreign exchange market were harmful for economies. US Stockpiles expanded to 10-month high. The data overshadowed the impact of geopolitical tensions in the Middle East as traders await Israel’s response to Iran’s unprecedented recent attack. President Joe Biden called for higher tariffs on imports of Chinese steel and aluminum.   Financial Markets Performance:   The USDIndex stumbled, falling to 105.66 at the end of the day from the intraday high of 106.48. It lost ground against most of its G10 peers. There wasn’t much on the calendar to provide new direction. USDJPY lows retesting the 154 bottom! NOT an intervention yet. BoJ/MoF USDJPY intervention happens when there is more than 100+ pip move in seconds, not 50 pips. USOIL slumped by 3% near $82, as US crude inventories rose by 2.7 million barrels last week, hitting the highest level since last June, while gauges of fuel demand declined. Gold strengthened as the dollar weakened and bullion is trading at $2378.44 per ounce. Market Trends:   Wall Street closed in the red after opening with small corrective gains. The NASDAQ underperformed, slumping -1.15%, with the S&P500 -0.58% lower, while the Dow lost -0.12. The Nikkei closed 0.2% higher, the Hang Seng gained more than 1. European and US futures are finding buyers. A gauge of global chip stocks and AI bellwether Nvidia Corp. have both fallen into a technical correction. The TMSC reported its first profit rise in a year, after strong AI demand revived growth at the world’s biggest contract chipmaker. The main chipmaker to Apple Inc. and Nvidia Corp. recorded a 9% rise in net income, beating estimates. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 17th April 2024. Market News – Appetite for risk-taking remains weak. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks, Treasury yields and US Dollar stay firmed. Fed Chair Powell added to the recent sell off. His slightly more hawkish tone further priced out chances for any imminent action and the timing of a cut was pushed out further. He suggested if higher inflation does persist, the Fed will hold rates steady “for as long as needed.” Implied Fed Fund: There remains no real chance for a move on May 1 and at their intraday highs the June implied funds rate future showed only 5 bps, while July reflected only 10 bps. And a full 25 bps was not priced in until November, with 38 bps in cuts seen for 2024. US & EU Economies Diverging: Lagarde says ECB is moving toward rate cuts – if there are no major shocks. UK March CPI inflation falls less than expected. Output price inflation has started to nudge higher, despite another decline in input prices. Together with yesterday’s higher than expected wage numbers, the data will add to the arguments of the hawks at the BoE, which remain very reluctant to contemplate rate cuts. Canada CPI rose 0.6% in March, double the 0.3% February increase BUT core eased. The doors are still open for a possible cut at the next BoC meeting on June 5. IMF revised up its global growth forecast for 2024 with inflation easing, in its new World Economic Outlook. This is consistent with a global soft landing, according to the report. Financial Markets Performance:   USDJPY also inched up to 154.67 on expectations the BoJ will remain accommodative and as the market challenges a perceived 155 red line for MoF intervention. USOIL prices slipped -0.15% to $84.20 per barrel. Gold rose 0.24% to $2389.11 per ounce, a new record closing high as geopolitical risks overshadowed the impacts of rising rates and the stronger dollar. Market Trends:   Wall Street waffled either side of unchanged on the day amid dimming rate cut potential, rising yields, and earnings. The major indexes closed mixed with the Dow up 0.17%, while the S&P500 and NASDAQ lost -0.21% and -0.12%, respectively. Asian stock markets mostly corrected again, with Japanese bourses underperforming and the Nikkei down -1.3%. Mainland China bourses were a notable exception and the CSI 300 rallied 1.4%, but the MSCI Asia Pacific index came close to erasing the gains for this year. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.vvvvvvv
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.