Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

maxima

Fastest Automatic Trading Software Available for Retail Users

Recommended Posts

There were many comments on "best" software and also on the best for backtesting.

 

What would be the fastest (data feed, calculations and execution altogether) software that is available for the retail traders?

 

Lets exclude latency between execution server and the user computer. Lets just take on account the natural data feed delays, speed of execution and the (least important I think) the speed of the platform itself to calculate the automated logic (mostly it is about the software being able to use compiled code or interpreted code).

 

For instance - Sierra and Ninja use compiled code. What about TS and MultiCharts? Are their languages being precompiled before use and run as a native computer code or they are being interpreted at the time of the execution?

 

What about data speed and execution speed of TS and Multicharts ? What about OEC and NeoTicker? How is Zen-Fire data and execution speeds together?

 

Which combination of data/software/execution broker can be trusted for a system which sends trades every 3 seconds (for example)?

 

I think less than 3s will require a colocation near exchange and the whole lot of other organisation and monetary efforts which I believe will make the project outside the scope of this discussion - DIY automated system?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MultiCharts indicators are compiled.

 

My understanding of TradeStation (I could be wrong) is it uses p-code.

 

 

Theoretically compiled code is slightly (ever so slightly) faster than p-code,

but practically, with today's CPU, and with the requirements of trading applications,

it doesn't matter: You won't see a noticeable difference, not even if you are doing multiple regression type of analysis.

 

 

Someone did an experiment on MultiCharts,

he nested 10 MACDs, one on top of the other,

applied it to the same symbol 10 times,

then replicated the set up in 10 charts.

 

ie. the computer has to calculate the MACD 1000 iterations every time a tick comes in.

 

Well.... it hardly budged the CPU.

 

I don't think this is just MultiCharts,

pretty well every charting software can do the same.

If not, blame it on the CPU and buy a more powerful computer.

 

 

 

p.s. one exception might be web based charting software, because they are not designed to do heavy duty work like this.

Edited by Tams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tams, do you know any of attempts to compare data feed lags say MultiCharts vs TS vs Zen?

 

Regarding CPU I disagree. 1000 MACDs is nothing in computing time iteslf. Tell the guy to compare 10 Jurik MAs.. He'd see the difference

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tams, do you know any of attempts to compare data feed lags say MultiCharts vs TS vs Zen?

 

Regarding CPU I disagree. 1000 MACDs is nothing in computing time iteslf. Tell the guy to compare 10 Jurik MAs.. He'd see the difference

 

 

I don't use Jurik, so I don't know the requirement...

the MACD is just an example done by someone...

Is it representational?

Probably not.

I don't think his original purpose was to make a point,

he was only doing it for experiment's sake,

without any scientific basis or benchmark for comparison.

Does it serve to illustrate a point?

it would only mean something to someone if he think it has value.

Each MACD is 2 moving averages smoothed again by a moving average...

I doubt many real life trader has to drive so much TA and requires so much iteration in one tick.

but then there's always someone doing the unusual thing... so you'd never know.

 

The point is, no matter how slow your software is,

the difference between 1,000 MACD vs 10 Jurik is not material...

it won't be slower than the latency between your eyes and your finger,

nor the latency between your computer and the broker's server.

 

 

I don't know anybody who has tested the Trader/Datafeed/Broker latency.

I doubt any retail trader has the tools, the expertize,

nor all the software/datafeed/broker combination to carry out such a test.

Probably the only people who can do such test is a magazine...

 

 

If you are bend on doing high frequency trading,

the best bet is to do it through a professional trading environment.

e.g. a prop or a fund that has the infrastructure to handle the required speed.

In a home based trading station, or a standard office building,

the Last Mile is your unavoidable weakest link.

 

 

This is only my 2c.

:-)>

Edited by Tams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no that was the exact point - CPU heavy computations like jurik or some signal processing filters will influent time of the system reaction even on high-end servers, MACD will not even on low-end desktop...

 

and the subsecond delays arent that difficult to measure. if you show me two feeds side-by-side i can tell the difference with 50 ms accuracy.

 

but i have found that multichart can be fed from rithmic, so i have no more questions about it... Would like to know how fast TS feed and execution though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
btw tams, i know you are fan of MC. I cant find how MC connects to TT... is it by xtrader API or is it by TT FIX :confused: thank you

 

hahah... am I a fan ? ... LOL... I am only a user of MultiCharts.

I have used many other software... they all have strength and weakness... nothing is perfect.

 

Back to your question,

You can connect MultiCharts to TT via a supplied dll.

 

I assume it is through API,

because FIX is very expensive, and it has to be individually setup.

Edited by Tams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
no that was the exact point - CPU heavy computations like jurik or some signal processing filters will influent time of the system reaction even on high-end servers, MACD will not even on low-end desktop...

 

and the subsecond delays arent that difficult to measure. if you show me two feeds side-by-side i can tell the difference with 50 ms accuracy.

 

but i have found that multichart can be fed from rithmic, so i have no more questions about it... Would like to know how fast TS feed and execution though...

 

 

MultiCharts cannot do sub-second analysis yet.

According to one of their forum replies, they are considering adding this feature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is Multichart better than Ninja Trader?

 

Tams : whick broker and datafeeder do you use witk MultiCharts?

 

Thx

 

 

MultiCharts and NinjaTrader are TWO very different programs.

 

Both have trial versions, you should download and try them out yourself.

 

 

MultiCharts uses EasyLanguage while Ninja uses C#.

 

There are lots of free EasyLanguage indicators on the web;

C# is more powerful, but also requires more skill to code.

 

Each has its own strength. You really have to find out for yourself.

 

 

p.s. I use InteractiveBrokers for broker and datafeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
p.s. I use InteractiveBrokers for broker and datafeed.

 

Are you not facing problems for backtesting ?

Because IB has only 24 historical data.

 

You probably import data but from where ? ;)

Thks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you not facing problems for backtesting ?

Because IB has only 24 historical data.

 

You probably import data but from where ? ;)

Thks

 

 

IB has more than 24 hist data

 

 

besides,

I don't do much long term intraday backtest.

 

The only long term tests I do are with EOD index data, which I can get from Yahoo or Google Finance.

 

e.g.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=^HSI

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=^SPX

Edited by Tams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its a bit silly to worry about this..it would be to assume your analysis is so precise that adding 1 second to your signal would mess up the back test to any meaningfull degree...You can test this yourself, just add a timer and +1 to your entry signal.

Unless you are trying to incorporate book data it would make far more sense to pick the platform you are most comfortable with as to get the most work done possible.

If you are trying to incorporate book data you will almost certainly need to move up a level beyond retail any, where latency of the feed and execution will become a huge issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True, but that is not to say that it isnt random if its going for or against you.

Of course there are strategies that latency would be of the essense, but you should be looking at FIX with a direct connection to the exchange, hosted close to the exchange your trading. It just doesn't make sense IMO to split hairs at the retail level over this at the cost of productivity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to prove my point. I have 2.5ms connection to a server which is 0.5ms away from CME and my algo on empty test run can demonstrate 40 microseconds order release. And I still think myself a retail. And the hair splitting I did helped me to achieve this.

 

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just to prove my point. I have 2.5ms connection to a server which is 0.5ms away from CME and my algo on empty test run can demonstrate 40 microseconds order release. And I still think myself a retail. And the hair splitting I did helped me to achieve this.

 

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk

 

Where's your algo run from though? If it's London, there's still going to be lag. Fair enough if it's right next to the CME.

Edited by TheNegotiator

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • also ... and barely on topic... Winners (always*) overpay. Buying the dips is a subscription to the belief that winners win by underpaying - when in actuality winners (inevitably/always*) win by overpaying... it’s amazing the percentage of traders who think winners win by underpaying ... “Winners (always*) overpay.” ...  One way to implement this ‘belief’ is to only reenter when prices have emphatically resumed the 'trend' .   (Fwiw, While “Winners (always*) overpay.” holds true in most endeavors (relationships, business, sports, etc...) - “Winners (always*) overpay.”  is especially true for auctions... continuous auctions included.)
    • re:  "Does it make sense to always buy the dips?  “Buy the dip.”  You hear this all the time in crypto investing trading speculation gambling. [zdo taking some liberties] It refers, of course, to buying more bitcoin (or digital assets) when they go down in price: when the price “dips.” Some people brag about “buying the dip," showing they know better than the crowd. Others “buy the dip” as an investment strategy: they’re getting a bargain. The problem is, buying the dip is a fallacy. You can’t buy the dip, because you can't see the total dip until much later. First, I’ll explain this in a way that will make it simple and obvious to you; then I’ll show you a better way of investing. You Only Know the Dip in Hindsight When people talk about “buying the dip,” what they’re really saying is, “I bought when the price was going down.” " ... example of a dip ... 
    • Date: 19th April 2024. Weekly Commodity Market Update: Oil Prices Correct and Supply Concerns Persist.   The ongoing developments in the Middle East sparked a wave of risk aversion and fueled supply concerns and investors headed for safety. Hopes for imminent rate cuts from the Federal Reserve diminish while attention is now turning towards the demand outlook. The Gold price hit a high of $2417.89 per ounce overnight. Sentiment has already calmed down again and bullion is trading at $2376.50 per ounce as haven flows ease. Oil prices initially moved higher as concern over escalating tensions with the WTI contract hit a session high of $85.508 per barrel overnight, before correcting to currently $81.45 per barrel. Oil Prices Under Pressure Amid Middle East Tensions Last week, commodity indexes showed little movement, with Oil prices undergoing a slight correction. Meanwhile, Gold reached yet another record high, mirroring the upward trend in cocoa prices. Once again today, USOil prices experienced a correction and has remained under pressure, retesting the 50-day EMA at $81.00 as we moving into the weekend. Hence, despite the Israel’s retaliatory strike on Iran, sentiments stabilized following reports suggesting a measured response aimed at avoiding further escalation. Brent crude futures witnessed a more than 4% leap, driven by concerns over potential disruptions to oil supplies in the Middle East, only to subsequently erase all gains. Similarly with USOIL, UKOIL hovers just below $87 per barrel, marginally below Thursday’s closing figures. Nevertheless, volatility is expected to continue in the market as several potential risks loom:   Disruption to the Strait of Hormuz: The possibility of Iran disrupting navigation through the vital shipping lane, is still in play. The Strait of Hormuz serves as the Persian Gulf’s primary route to international waters, with approximately 21 million barrels of oil passing through daily. Recent events, including Iran’s seizure of an Israel-linked container ship, underscore the geopolitical sensitivity of the region. Tougher Sanctions on Iran: Analysts speculate that the US may impose stricter sanctions on Iranian oil exports or intensify enforcement of existing restrictions. With global oil consumption reaching 102 million barrels per day, Iran’s production of 3.3 million barrels remains significant. Recent actions targeting Venezuelan oil highlight the potential for increased pressure on Iranian exports. OPEC Output Increases: Despite the desire for higher prices, OPEC members such as Saudi Arabia and Russia have constrained output in recent years. However, sustained crude prices above $100 per barrel could prompt concerns about demand and incentivize increased production. The OPEC may opt to boost oil output should tensions escalate further and prices surge. Ukraine Conflict: Amidst the focus on the Middle East, markets overlooking Russia’s actions in Ukraine. Potential retaliatory strikes by Kyiv on Russian oil infrastructure could impact exports, adding further complexity to global oil markets.   Technical Analysis USOIL is marking one of the steepest weekly declines witnessed this year after a brief period of consolidation. The breach below the pivotal support level of 84.00, coupled with the descent below the mid of the 4-month upchannel, signals a possible shift in market sentiment towards a bearish trend reversal. Adding to the bearish outlook are indications such as the downward slope in the RSI. However, the asset still hold above the 50-day EMA which coincides also with the mid of last year’s downleg, with key support zone at $80.00-$81.00. If it breaks this support zone, the focus may shift towards the 200-day EMA and 38.2% Fib. level at $77.60-$79.00. Conversely, a rejection of the $81 level and an upside potential could see the price returning back to $84.00. A break of the latter could trigger the attention back to the December’s resistance, situated around $86.60. A breakthrough above this level could ignite a stronger rally towards the $89.20-$90.00 zone. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou Market Analyst HMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past perfrmance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 18th April 2024. Market News – Stock markets benefit from Dollar correction. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Technical buying, bargain hunting, and risk aversion helped Treasuries rally and unwind recent losses. Yields dropped from the recent 2024 highs. Asian stock markets strengthened, as the US Dollar corrected in the wake of comments from Japan’s currency chief Masato Kanda, who said G7 countries continue to stress that excessive swings and disorderly moves in the foreign exchange market were harmful for economies. US Stockpiles expanded to 10-month high. The data overshadowed the impact of geopolitical tensions in the Middle East as traders await Israel’s response to Iran’s unprecedented recent attack. President Joe Biden called for higher tariffs on imports of Chinese steel and aluminum.   Financial Markets Performance:   The USDIndex stumbled, falling to 105.66 at the end of the day from the intraday high of 106.48. It lost ground against most of its G10 peers. There wasn’t much on the calendar to provide new direction. USDJPY lows retesting the 154 bottom! NOT an intervention yet. BoJ/MoF USDJPY intervention happens when there is more than 100+ pip move in seconds, not 50 pips. USOIL slumped by 3% near $82, as US crude inventories rose by 2.7 million barrels last week, hitting the highest level since last June, while gauges of fuel demand declined. Gold strengthened as the dollar weakened and bullion is trading at $2378.44 per ounce. Market Trends:   Wall Street closed in the red after opening with small corrective gains. The NASDAQ underperformed, slumping -1.15%, with the S&P500 -0.58% lower, while the Dow lost -0.12. The Nikkei closed 0.2% higher, the Hang Seng gained more than 1. European and US futures are finding buyers. A gauge of global chip stocks and AI bellwether Nvidia Corp. have both fallen into a technical correction. The TMSC reported its first profit rise in a year, after strong AI demand revived growth at the world’s biggest contract chipmaker. The main chipmaker to Apple Inc. and Nvidia Corp. recorded a 9% rise in net income, beating estimates. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 17th April 2024. Market News – Appetite for risk-taking remains weak. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks, Treasury yields and US Dollar stay firmed. Fed Chair Powell added to the recent sell off. His slightly more hawkish tone further priced out chances for any imminent action and the timing of a cut was pushed out further. He suggested if higher inflation does persist, the Fed will hold rates steady “for as long as needed.” Implied Fed Fund: There remains no real chance for a move on May 1 and at their intraday highs the June implied funds rate future showed only 5 bps, while July reflected only 10 bps. And a full 25 bps was not priced in until November, with 38 bps in cuts seen for 2024. US & EU Economies Diverging: Lagarde says ECB is moving toward rate cuts – if there are no major shocks. UK March CPI inflation falls less than expected. Output price inflation has started to nudge higher, despite another decline in input prices. Together with yesterday’s higher than expected wage numbers, the data will add to the arguments of the hawks at the BoE, which remain very reluctant to contemplate rate cuts. Canada CPI rose 0.6% in March, double the 0.3% February increase BUT core eased. The doors are still open for a possible cut at the next BoC meeting on June 5. IMF revised up its global growth forecast for 2024 with inflation easing, in its new World Economic Outlook. This is consistent with a global soft landing, according to the report. Financial Markets Performance:   USDJPY also inched up to 154.67 on expectations the BoJ will remain accommodative and as the market challenges a perceived 155 red line for MoF intervention. USOIL prices slipped -0.15% to $84.20 per barrel. Gold rose 0.24% to $2389.11 per ounce, a new record closing high as geopolitical risks overshadowed the impacts of rising rates and the stronger dollar. Market Trends:   Wall Street waffled either side of unchanged on the day amid dimming rate cut potential, rising yields, and earnings. The major indexes closed mixed with the Dow up 0.17%, while the S&P500 and NASDAQ lost -0.21% and -0.12%, respectively. Asian stock markets mostly corrected again, with Japanese bourses underperforming and the Nikkei down -1.3%. Mainland China bourses were a notable exception and the CSI 300 rallied 1.4%, but the MSCI Asia Pacific index came close to erasing the gains for this year. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.vvvvvvv
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.