Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

dandxg

Order Flow Analytics

Recommended Posts

OFA is doing something that is different from MD footprint charts or any other recent links provided so I give them some credit. OFA has decided on a statistical level of order flow transition criteria (their algorithmic function) to determine WHEN a new reversal bar should form based upon the order flow that shows conviction.....that is a smart move imo. Of course this function they have built within their software is totally dependent on clean bid/ask data and a platform that can handle that data. If OFA remains using Ninjatrader with a broker provided feed, they will not get fully accurate bid/ask data and will have computational mis-plots of their reversal bars (not good). If OFA software is running in a platform/charting set up that can handle an uncoalesced feed with no data loss, then their trade set up criteria may work just fine (since they are properly pin pointing statistical SHIFTS within the realtime order flow conviction.....which is one of the key components to a proper high probability trade entry determination).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Care to elaborate how this could be done?

In the case of OFA software, they have determined a set amount of contract differential from tracking Cumulative Delta as their algorithmic criteria for a new reversal bar to be initiated. Since I have used Cumulative Delta exclusively now for over 6 years, I know various statistical order flow transition levels that are important to me.....I have no idea what OFA is using as their benchmark order flow transition criteria (Cumulative Delta order flow "flip" differential).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you cannot make money by Understanding and Trading Order Flow itself, irrelevant of which Software (OFA or MarketDelta) provides it, forget it. It really doesnt matter about Algorithms and super programming. Its just another system IMO. Order Flow Trading should stay discretionary as that is where the Edge is. Someone will always come along a promise another Holy Grail, and we all no there is no such thing. So best thing to do is learn how to trade Order Flow Well, find a few Executions patterns that work and just Manage your Risk VERY well. Simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Care to elaborate how this could be done?

 

Nothing is being done. If you watch their video, the person who is demoing the software specifically says the bars are created using PNF bars also known as a reversal chart which has been in MD for a long time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not understand the criticism of Zen-Fire + NinjaTrader, to process the tape.

I have programmed my own tools to analyze the tape (one full session) and found that match with CME (for mini-sp)

I use NinjaTrader and Zen-Fire.

I searched the forum but have not found any evidence to show that the flow of Zen-Fire is wrong, or NinjaTrader can not process it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do not understand the criticism of Zen-Fire + NinjaTrader, to process the tape.

I have programmed my own tools to analyze the tape (one full session) and found that match with CME (for mini-sp)

I use NinjaTrader and Zen-Fire.

I searched the forum but have not found any evidence to show that the flow of Zen-Fire is wrong, or NinjaTrader can not process it.

I have MANY that were using Ninjatrader with Zenfire feed to do their bid/ask differential work for Cumulative Delta plots and there was frequent data drops day after day (since the CME data output changes in October of 2009).

 

To research the problems that had started to appear for ALL Ninjatrader/Zenfire users running bid/ask data, I compared the end of day data runs to a very robust uncoalesced server side accessed feed. The NT/Zenfire data runs for BID/ASK data comparisons did not at all match up with the CME feed runs from a very high end application.

 

You will need access to direct uncoalesced FCM server side feed or pay high bucks for very robust low latency feeds to make a proper comparison. It was pretty bad actually, everyone that I know who was using NT/Zenfire for doing bid/ask work all had their charting go to crap after the CME data changes......I wished that was not the case!

 

I was also a user of the NT/Zenfire feed for back up bid/ask data work, but I myself no longer use this set up.....not until I see new proof that NT/Zenfire have made the necessary changes to whatever is causing the problems (and that will take some extensive work to change their current application limitations). I really like the Ninjatrader platform and I still use the platform for basic order entry/management ops, but I do not at all use it for Cumulative Delta work anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading this much informative thread from start to end there one confusion still lies, how OFA Change the bar? is it pnf as someone said above or is it using variation of CD Algo? Most of guys must have used it by now, how was the real time experience?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OFA has a proprietary calculation its not 6 tick reversal, but 6 ticks work pretty well so does 6 range. Take the demo, they are pretty nice guys. I just refuse to pay $2500 for their education class to use their software to learn what I learning for alot less from IOAMT. Some of OFA's set ups are the same as IOAMT they wait for a high volume spike at low or high then when those traders are upside down they fade em'. You can get a few ideas from watching tradersforce on you tube also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks blowfish, and yes if there is a debate over bid-ask vs uptick-downtick then i will take a side of uptick-downtick, i dont believe bid-ask order directly affect the price structure, other time frame traders ( which are the most influencial one to change the shape of a profile ) trades on higher time frame & logically they will wait on bid rather than hitting the ask price aggressively, yes bid-ask has a value but mostly for quants who uses the imbalance in a flash. Whereas uptick-downtick itself is the product of price movement so is more reliable market induced information imho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OFA has a proprietary calculation its not 6 tick reversal, but 6 ticks work pretty well so does 6 range. Take the demo, they are pretty nice guys. I just refuse to pay $2500 for their education class to use their software to learn what I learning for alot less from IOAMT. Some of OFA's set ups are the same as IOAMT they wait for a high volume spike at low or high then when those traders are upside down they fade em'. You can get a few ideas from watching tradersforce on you tube also.

 

compulsory boot-camp with fee of 2500$ means they dont target there s/w for experience traders. Thanks for the reviews.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was also a user of the NT/Zenfire feed for back up bid/ask data work, but I myself no longer use this set up.

 

Hi FulcrumTrader:

Lately my TradeStation data delivery has been problematic and also the charts have been freezing. Please, what platform/data feeds are you using? I'm in the market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi FulcrumTrader:

Lately my TradeStation data delivery has been problematic and also the charts have been freezing. Please, what platform/data feeds are you using? I'm in the market.

 

I am familiar with Fulcrums posts let me see if I can help, in the meantime. Fulcrum uses, last time I read, DTN IQ NX core, with Investor RT. Most would be fine with IQ feed regular. You could try Market Delta, very similar, for free, for 30 days but doesn't store historical data. TradeStation is notorious for bottlenecking on high volume bursts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
they will wait on bid rather than hitting the ask price aggressively

 

Can you explain this further? Are you saying they will put a limit order on the bid and let the offer come to them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can you explain this further? Are you saying they will put a limit order on the bid and let the offer come to them?

 

Totally, thats what i mean, most of the time when we see market holding on support on low volume this thing happens, but it doesnt mean they always give limit orders below the actual price, volatility need to be consider as well, in high volatility environment OTT (other timeframe traders ) wont wait but rather hit the ask price, you see thats what i mean so many ifs & buts to the extent of curve fitting the vague theory. In market profile we say responsive buying by other time frame traders, they pounce on the opportunity when they think value is reasonable thats the tendency of smart auction player so why would OTT always hit the market price OR ask price ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
compulsory boot-camp with fee of 2500$ means they dont target there s/w for experience traders. Thanks for the reviews.

 

Indeed.

 

I really quite like what they are doing. If I could just buy the software for a grand I probably would. There pricing model is weird, 10 bucks a month per extra instrument? 500 (or whatever it is) if you want clusters shaded? Kinda crazy and firmly in the "lets make a living out of education and software". Another concerned is that just because there are no parameters exposed there clearly things that could/should be. It is a dark grey box that may well need tuning for different markets or conditions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could come up with only two possible reasons for this weird thing, they are paranoid of some one might crack it if they keep their s/w for demo without controlling who is downloading it. Second reason could be ..One guy who is using it told its pure vanilla s/w no indicators could be backtested in Ninja. If its true then its visual ease to the eye kind of utility and to make a best use of it you need to have some knowladge of how the order flow works and the secret they only posses and instead using that secret to make real money in market by actual trades they choose to sell it, pretty convincing. Nothing against/for any vendor, just expressing my views.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks blowfish, and yes if there is a debate over bid-ask vs uptick-downtick then i will take a side of uptick-downtick, i dont believe bid-ask order directly affect the price structure, other time frame traders ( which are the most influencial one to change the shape of a profile ) trades on higher time frame & logically they will wait on bid rather than hitting the ask price aggressively, yes bid-ask has a value but mostly for quants who uses the imbalance in a flash. Whereas uptick-downtick itself is the product of price movement so is more reliable market induced information imho.

 

The predominance of Commercials order flow is handled through algorithmic automated entry/exit systems with "market orders".....BID/ASK Differential is critical to track this very important order flow dynamic. With current technology and speed available for routing orders, the best method possible for Commercials to mask their activity in the market is through "market order" driven order flow. Sitting fat in the order book is the old game...."market order" driven activity through automation is the king right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi FulcrumTrader:

Lately my TradeStation data delivery has been problematic and also the charts have been freezing. Please, what platform/data feeds are you using? I'm in the market.

 

Investor RT Pro with regular DTN.IQ feed is what I recommend for tracking Cumulative Delta.

 

TradeVec and marketdelta.com are additional alternatives if used with DTN.IQ feed (a rock solid feed is a MUST to properly track the Cumulative Delta).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BTW, does anyone know if OFA is still trying to use Rithmic feed to track BID/ASK Differential?

 

 

Did OFA finally make the switch to a proper data feed for BID/ASK Differential work with DTN.IQ feed yet?

 

 

I believe it works with zen-fire still. You can run it through Ninja and then connect ninja to IQFeed but I suspect that would have performance implications.

 

This is one reason I use Market Delta so that I can use it with IQFeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I believe it works with zen-fire still. You can run it through Ninja and then connect ninja to IQFeed but I suspect that would have performance implications.

 

This is one reason I use Market Delta so that I can use it with IQFeed.

Right.....BID/ASK differential work with a broker supplied feed is not usable data (tainted results). DTN.IQ is the best option at this time to make sure you have proper BID/ASK data.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • also ... and barely on topic... Winners (always*) overpay. Buying the dips is a subscription to the belief that winners win by underpaying - when in actuality winners (inevitably/always*) win by overpaying... it’s amazing the percentage of traders who think winners win by underpaying ... “Winners (always*) overpay.” ...  One way to implement this ‘belief’ is to only reenter when prices have emphatically resumed the 'trend' .   (Fwiw, While “Winners (always*) overpay.” holds true in most endeavors (relationships, business, sports, etc...) - “Winners (always*) overpay.”  is especially true for auctions... continuous auctions included.)
    • re:  "Does it make sense to always buy the dips?  “Buy the dip.”  You hear this all the time in crypto investing trading speculation gambling. [zdo taking some liberties] It refers, of course, to buying more bitcoin (or digital assets) when they go down in price: when the price “dips.” Some people brag about “buying the dip," showing they know better than the crowd. Others “buy the dip” as an investment strategy: they’re getting a bargain. The problem is, buying the dip is a fallacy. You can’t buy the dip, because you can't see the total dip until much later. First, I’ll explain this in a way that will make it simple and obvious to you; then I’ll show you a better way of investing. You Only Know the Dip in Hindsight When people talk about “buying the dip,” what they’re really saying is, “I bought when the price was going down.” " ... example of a dip ... 
    • Date: 19th April 2024. Weekly Commodity Market Update: Oil Prices Correct and Supply Concerns Persist.   The ongoing developments in the Middle East sparked a wave of risk aversion and fueled supply concerns and investors headed for safety. Hopes for imminent rate cuts from the Federal Reserve diminish while attention is now turning towards the demand outlook. The Gold price hit a high of $2417.89 per ounce overnight. Sentiment has already calmed down again and bullion is trading at $2376.50 per ounce as haven flows ease. Oil prices initially moved higher as concern over escalating tensions with the WTI contract hit a session high of $85.508 per barrel overnight, before correcting to currently $81.45 per barrel. Oil Prices Under Pressure Amid Middle East Tensions Last week, commodity indexes showed little movement, with Oil prices undergoing a slight correction. Meanwhile, Gold reached yet another record high, mirroring the upward trend in cocoa prices. Once again today, USOil prices experienced a correction and has remained under pressure, retesting the 50-day EMA at $81.00 as we moving into the weekend. Hence, despite the Israel’s retaliatory strike on Iran, sentiments stabilized following reports suggesting a measured response aimed at avoiding further escalation. Brent crude futures witnessed a more than 4% leap, driven by concerns over potential disruptions to oil supplies in the Middle East, only to subsequently erase all gains. Similarly with USOIL, UKOIL hovers just below $87 per barrel, marginally below Thursday’s closing figures. Nevertheless, volatility is expected to continue in the market as several potential risks loom:   Disruption to the Strait of Hormuz: The possibility of Iran disrupting navigation through the vital shipping lane, is still in play. The Strait of Hormuz serves as the Persian Gulf’s primary route to international waters, with approximately 21 million barrels of oil passing through daily. Recent events, including Iran’s seizure of an Israel-linked container ship, underscore the geopolitical sensitivity of the region. Tougher Sanctions on Iran: Analysts speculate that the US may impose stricter sanctions on Iranian oil exports or intensify enforcement of existing restrictions. With global oil consumption reaching 102 million barrels per day, Iran’s production of 3.3 million barrels remains significant. Recent actions targeting Venezuelan oil highlight the potential for increased pressure on Iranian exports. OPEC Output Increases: Despite the desire for higher prices, OPEC members such as Saudi Arabia and Russia have constrained output in recent years. However, sustained crude prices above $100 per barrel could prompt concerns about demand and incentivize increased production. The OPEC may opt to boost oil output should tensions escalate further and prices surge. Ukraine Conflict: Amidst the focus on the Middle East, markets overlooking Russia’s actions in Ukraine. Potential retaliatory strikes by Kyiv on Russian oil infrastructure could impact exports, adding further complexity to global oil markets.   Technical Analysis USOIL is marking one of the steepest weekly declines witnessed this year after a brief period of consolidation. The breach below the pivotal support level of 84.00, coupled with the descent below the mid of the 4-month upchannel, signals a possible shift in market sentiment towards a bearish trend reversal. Adding to the bearish outlook are indications such as the downward slope in the RSI. However, the asset still hold above the 50-day EMA which coincides also with the mid of last year’s downleg, with key support zone at $80.00-$81.00. If it breaks this support zone, the focus may shift towards the 200-day EMA and 38.2% Fib. level at $77.60-$79.00. Conversely, a rejection of the $81 level and an upside potential could see the price returning back to $84.00. A break of the latter could trigger the attention back to the December’s resistance, situated around $86.60. A breakthrough above this level could ignite a stronger rally towards the $89.20-$90.00 zone. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou Market Analyst HMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past perfrmance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 18th April 2024. Market News – Stock markets benefit from Dollar correction. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Technical buying, bargain hunting, and risk aversion helped Treasuries rally and unwind recent losses. Yields dropped from the recent 2024 highs. Asian stock markets strengthened, as the US Dollar corrected in the wake of comments from Japan’s currency chief Masato Kanda, who said G7 countries continue to stress that excessive swings and disorderly moves in the foreign exchange market were harmful for economies. US Stockpiles expanded to 10-month high. The data overshadowed the impact of geopolitical tensions in the Middle East as traders await Israel’s response to Iran’s unprecedented recent attack. President Joe Biden called for higher tariffs on imports of Chinese steel and aluminum.   Financial Markets Performance:   The USDIndex stumbled, falling to 105.66 at the end of the day from the intraday high of 106.48. It lost ground against most of its G10 peers. There wasn’t much on the calendar to provide new direction. USDJPY lows retesting the 154 bottom! NOT an intervention yet. BoJ/MoF USDJPY intervention happens when there is more than 100+ pip move in seconds, not 50 pips. USOIL slumped by 3% near $82, as US crude inventories rose by 2.7 million barrels last week, hitting the highest level since last June, while gauges of fuel demand declined. Gold strengthened as the dollar weakened and bullion is trading at $2378.44 per ounce. Market Trends:   Wall Street closed in the red after opening with small corrective gains. The NASDAQ underperformed, slumping -1.15%, with the S&P500 -0.58% lower, while the Dow lost -0.12. The Nikkei closed 0.2% higher, the Hang Seng gained more than 1. European and US futures are finding buyers. A gauge of global chip stocks and AI bellwether Nvidia Corp. have both fallen into a technical correction. The TMSC reported its first profit rise in a year, after strong AI demand revived growth at the world’s biggest contract chipmaker. The main chipmaker to Apple Inc. and Nvidia Corp. recorded a 9% rise in net income, beating estimates. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 17th April 2024. Market News – Appetite for risk-taking remains weak. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks, Treasury yields and US Dollar stay firmed. Fed Chair Powell added to the recent sell off. His slightly more hawkish tone further priced out chances for any imminent action and the timing of a cut was pushed out further. He suggested if higher inflation does persist, the Fed will hold rates steady “for as long as needed.” Implied Fed Fund: There remains no real chance for a move on May 1 and at their intraday highs the June implied funds rate future showed only 5 bps, while July reflected only 10 bps. And a full 25 bps was not priced in until November, with 38 bps in cuts seen for 2024. US & EU Economies Diverging: Lagarde says ECB is moving toward rate cuts – if there are no major shocks. UK March CPI inflation falls less than expected. Output price inflation has started to nudge higher, despite another decline in input prices. Together with yesterday’s higher than expected wage numbers, the data will add to the arguments of the hawks at the BoE, which remain very reluctant to contemplate rate cuts. Canada CPI rose 0.6% in March, double the 0.3% February increase BUT core eased. The doors are still open for a possible cut at the next BoC meeting on June 5. IMF revised up its global growth forecast for 2024 with inflation easing, in its new World Economic Outlook. This is consistent with a global soft landing, according to the report. Financial Markets Performance:   USDJPY also inched up to 154.67 on expectations the BoJ will remain accommodative and as the market challenges a perceived 155 red line for MoF intervention. USOIL prices slipped -0.15% to $84.20 per barrel. Gold rose 0.24% to $2389.11 per ounce, a new record closing high as geopolitical risks overshadowed the impacts of rising rates and the stronger dollar. Market Trends:   Wall Street waffled either side of unchanged on the day amid dimming rate cut potential, rising yields, and earnings. The major indexes closed mixed with the Dow up 0.17%, while the S&P500 and NASDAQ lost -0.21% and -0.12%, respectively. Asian stock markets mostly corrected again, with Japanese bourses underperforming and the Nikkei down -1.3%. Mainland China bourses were a notable exception and the CSI 300 rallied 1.4%, but the MSCI Asia Pacific index came close to erasing the gains for this year. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.vvvvvvv
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.