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patrader, as an assignment use the picture attached and place your pt1,p2 and p3 of your different fractals in respective places.

 

You may have an "aha" moment.

 

HTH

 

Credits go to Nkhoi

fractal3.thumb.png.5fada0a28ab65d1cbb6bc79b353fcf3e.png

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LOL did make one mistake on the pt1-2-3 drill....the first chart is a downtrend so the pt3's should all be red not black and the second chart is a uptrend so of course all the pt3's should also be black.....sorry for any confusion

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The lateral formation continues until terminated with two closes outside the Lateral boundaries (created from the High / Low of Bar 1) - except where the 'two closes' form a 'flaw.' In such a case, we require a 'third' close outside the lateral boundary in order to have reached 'termination' of the previous lateral.

 

Here is my latest refinement of ways a lateral can be "killed" (with enlightment from jbarnby).

The lateral formation continues until terminated with two closes outside the Lateral boundaries (created from the High / Low of Bar 1) - except where the 'two closes' form a 'flaw' (internal formation) and the second bar of this internal is on DECREASING VOLUME.In such a case, we require a 'third' close outside the lateral boundary in order to have reached 'termination' of the previous lateral.If the second bar of the internal formation is on INCREASING VOLUME then the lateral is terminated (killed) and does not require the "third" close outside the lateral boundary.hth

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[/u] As to whether or not an I.B.G.S. on increasing Volume does or does not terminate a lateral. Does it?

 

 

- Spydertrader

 

Continuing the refinement of possible ways a lateral formation are terminated (killed) i have found that ibgs's on increasing volume where the ibgs breaks outside the boundary of the lateral does kill it (no matter where the close of the bar).Ibgs's on increasing volume where the high/low are fully inside the lateral boundaries do not kill it.Ibgs's on decreasing volume do not kill a lateral.OB's(outside bars) also follow the same rules as ibgs's when the ob is also an ibgs.hth

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Here is my latest refinement of ways a lateral can be "killed" (with enlightment from jbarnby).

The lateral formation continues until terminated with two closes outside the Lateral boundaries (created from the High / Low of Bar 1) - except where the 'two closes' form a 'flaw' (internal formation) and the second bar of this internal is on DECREASING VOLUME.In such a case, we require a 'third' close outside the lateral boundary in order to have reached 'termination' of the previous lateral.If the second bar of the internal formation is on INCREASING VOLUME then the lateral is terminated (killed) and does not require the "third" close outside the lateral boundary.hth

 

I like to refer to these as "guidelines" and not rules. I had this same discussion with a couple of my students this week about reading the market. Same applies to using IBGS or OB's to kill laterals. First and foremost, I default to the sequences and determine can we use a specific bar(s)/volume to complete a sequence or not. Because when you think about it, the role of most laterals (not all) is to take us from 2-3 of something, right? How we go about completing something can depend on how/when we kill the lat, as well as the type of lateral we're working with.

 

Sequences sequences sequences!! Just ask the students who have progressed to my live trading room - what do I harp on all day every day. Without hesitation they would tell you "sequences". Become proficient at those and you'll know exactly when your fractal has completed and exactly when you have permission to look for change.

 

I had a student yesterday who got a little rattled in real-time by the 1120 bar. But there should have been no question at that point in time - the market had NOT yet completed it's sequence.

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Spyder,

 

I have a question about the attached snippet. Specifically, the 1310 bar on 08/5 (highlighted in yellow). From time to time I run across an area such as this, where I am unable to ftt the bar on any fractal. The gaussians support that this area completes the 2-3 movement, but is that possible with the ve? I'm very familiar with the valuable discussion between Romanus and PointeOne on this topic.

 

Does such an event tell me that I have taped the area incorrectly? What am I missing here?

 

.attachment.php?attachmentid=13015&stc=1&d=1250658768

 

While the event which you describe may indeed point to errors in annotation technique, in this specific example, no errors exist (with respect to the area under discussion).

 

 

 

Either, you do not see something which provides the FTT or you do not see a contextual difference which indicates the possibility an environment exists which has the ability to obscure that which you expect to see.

 

- Spydertrader

 

After review, and comparing the 1310 bar from 08/05 to a few others, I notice that volume accelerates in this area in a fashion similar to what we used to call Peak Volume. Seems I recall that PV would frequently mask an FTT on a VE of the tape.

 

Jbarnby,just came across this in the thread and want to thank you for posting this big time.What a huge AH HA.I have attached a chart with volume of the same day so the PEAK VOLUME (which is not labeled on that chart but should have been with a P) can be seen on that bar (keep in mind its the 12:10 bar on that chart due to the labeling of time being off by one hour).hth

8-5-2009.thumb.jpg.b8c2fa2efe6cb944ee7415de754cb086.jpg

Edited by patrader

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Sequences sequences sequences!!

 

Sure thing. Let's start by taking a look at today's (6-22) S & P 500 E-Mini (The ES) using a five minute chart. Thinking fractally, we want to locate the Volume Sequences which the market displays all day, every day in every market. By describing these Volume Sequences using Volume Color (Black for Up and Red for Down), a trader should expect to see R 2 R 2 B 2 R (for a down trend) and B 2 B 2 R 2 B for an Up Trend. Again, thinking fractally, the market should provide these sequences on each and every trading fractal.

 

An example of a very fast fractal:

 

11635d1245729253-open-free-discussion-volume-fractal1.jpg

 

An example of a slightly less fast fractal:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=11636&stc=1&d=1245729260

 

An example of a slow fractal:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=11637&stc=1&d=1245729260

 

An example of the slowest fractal:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=11638&stc=1&d=1245729260

 

 

As you can see, irrespective of the chosen fractal, the market provides the same exact sequences. Combine these fractals, and a trader can 'see' that which must complete.

 

Learning to thoroughly and properly 'contain' Price and Volume in order to more easily see these sequences represents the first step toward profitability.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Interestingly enough what i believe is the best examples by spydertrader of sequences are not in this thread but a short lived earlier thread(Open and Free Discussion on Volume).It appears that the fractal encased by thicker purple trendlines in the 10-3-2012 chart by jbarnby corresponds to the slow fractal example.hth

5aa711a536325_10-3-12jbarnby.thumb.png.1e12602a7d5844f948256018675ff917.png

Edited by patrader

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B2B2R2B and R2R2B2R.Reference materals are forestgaussians.pdf (http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/e-mini-futures-trading-laboratory/5920-ideal-volume-channel-up-down-4.html#post66298)posted by spydertrader in Ideal Volume in Channel UP/Down(post #32) and Avi 8 post #2195 in this thread http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/6320-price-volume-relationship-275.html

B2B2R2B.jpg.148ecb5bf5adc18b36e50744a7ec67bc.jpg

R2R2B2R.jpg.547e9a482bc6767dcce659643d559815.jpg

Edited by patrader

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Cleaned up the "example of slow fractal" (see attached).Corrected some of the price and matching volume bars to have correct bar coloration.Added the slightly faster nested gaussians.I believe this is same fractal weighting used by jbarnby's in the 10-3-2012 purple thick down container(traverse).One interesting side note is the placement location of the "trough" of R2R of traverse.There is some comments by spydertrader where the location of the R2R traverse trough may be located starting on http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/6320-price-volume-relationship-271.html post #2167.hth

5aa711a6aee4f_exampleofaslowfractalmodified.thumb.JPG.fa74ee6afdc9de6a142048d1020c48bc.JPG

5aa711a6bd414_10-3-12jbarnby.thumb.png.5356e3e898cdde93e9d5f262b82d2677.png

Edited by patrader

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Cleaned up the "example of slow fractal" (see attached).Corrected some of the price and matching volume bars to have correct bar coloration.Added the slightly faster nested gaussians.I believe this is same fractal weighting used by jbarnby's in the 10-3-2012 purple thick down container(traverse).One interesting side note is the placement location of the "trough" of R2R of traverse.There is some comments by spydertrader where the location of the R2R traverse trough may be located starting on http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/6320-price-volume-relationship-271.html post #2167.hth

 

patrader, nicely done. Are you able to determine what the above is? (tape, traverse or channel)

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[2:29:00 PM] Erica Walker: sometimes it does feel like this method is magic. i'm having a "smh" moment in a little bit of awe...!

 

A realtime skype quote from one of my "newer" students today in our trading room. I thought her comment was pretty cool.

 

Stay motivated!!

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dE06WoI.jpg

 

what do you guys think of the outcome for this stock?

 

I think it looks extremely bullish with the price increasing with the volume whereas the stock decreased on decreasing volume. Also the stock has past the possibility of it being a correction in the trend.

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[2:29:00 PM] Erica Walker: sometimes it does feel like this method is magic. i'm having a "smh" moment in a little bit of awe...!

 

A realtime skype quote from one of my "newer" students today in our trading room. I thought her comment was pretty cool.

Magic, really? Wait till she gets into muddy hours. Sorry, can't help to burst out my thought about someone showing me how magical moving average was years ago.

 

Stay motivated!!

Definitely!

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dE06WoI.jpg

 

what do you guys think of the outcome for this stock?

 

I think it looks extremely bullish with the price increasing with the volume whereas the stock decreased on decreasing volume. Also the stock has past the possibility of it being a correction in the trend.

 

Without a fully (and correctly) annotated chart one cannot say whether the trend is near completion or not.

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Magic, really? Wait till she gets into muddy hours. Sorry, can't help to burst out my thought about someone showing me how magical moving average was years ago.{/QUOTE]

 

well, she's been working on learning and perfecting the method for over a year....I'd say she's more than familiar with what you call "muddy hours". And yes, magic is not an overstatement IF one knows how to track all sequences on every fractal. (I'm guessing you don't?)

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Magic, really? Wait till she gets into muddy hours. Sorry, can't help to burst out my thought about someone showing me how magical moving average was years ago.{/QUOTE]

 

well, she's been working on learning and perfecting the method for over a year....I'd say she's more than familiar with what you call "muddy hours". And yes, magic is not an overstatement IF one knows how to track all sequences on every fractal. (I'm guessing you don't?)

 

My bad, I don't mean to insult you. Personally, I have gone through a looping journey of thinking I found a 'magic' with a new idea but realized later it was just a 'one-time' magic.

 

If you could make your student to see REAL magic with barely more than a year in learning the method disclosed here, you sure know the bottle-necks in learning this method. Why not squeeze a tiny portion of your time to put up a series of one or two examples with helpful and direct clues to clarify various topics in Spydertrader's concept of sequences which should go beyond application to ideal scenario? Then leave people here to learn by themselves.

 

I appreciate a lot if you take up my suggestion.

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patrader, nicely done. Are you able to determine what the above is? (tape, traverse or channel)

 

 

patrader, sorry for confusing you with an A-Team member. I had a look through this thread and can see you have been working on this for years. Like others struggling :doh:, “Stay motivated”

 

It is good to review the basics and fundamentals like you did with internals. However, don’t overcomplicate things.

 

If you are getting stuck with the fractal drill, reverse engineer it. (What isn’t it?)

 

HTH

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Something to think about:

 

 

A fractal is a mathematical set that has a fractal dimension that usually exceeds its topological dimension[1] and may fall between the integers.[2] Fractals are typically self-similar patterns, where self-similar means they are "the same from near as from far".[3] Fractals may be exactly the same at every scale, or, as illustrated in Figure 1, they may be nearly the same at different scales.[2][4][5][6] The definition of fractal goes beyond self-similarity per se to exclude trivial self-similarity and include the idea of a detailed pattern repeating itself.[2]:166; 18[4][7]

 

Fractal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

HTH

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My bad, I don't mean to insult you. Personally, I have gone through a looping journey of thinking I found a 'magic' with a new idea but realized later it was just a 'one-time' magic.

I wasn't insulted at all...i realized when I said "newer" that wasn't a fair explanation of her experience.

 

 

If you could make your student to see REAL magic with barely more than a year in learning the method disclosed here, you sure know the bottle-necks in learning this method. Why not squeeze a tiny portion of your time to put up a series of one or two examples with helpful and direct clues to clarify various topics in Spydertrader's concept of sequences which should go beyond application to ideal scenario? Then leave people here to learn by themselves.

 

I appreciate a lot if you take up my suggestion.

 

Your request is not unreasonable...and you're not the first to request it. Nothing would have pleased me more than if I could have simply referred my friends (earliest students) to this thread and set them free to learn the method. But unfortunately, while there is a WEALTH of information herein, I didn't find it enough (for me personally) to fully understand fractals. Other's experience might be different however.

 

As to why I don't provide more direct clues....I try to walk a very fine line. Why? Because I wish to respect Spyder's wishes as to how much information is fully revealed in a public forum. Clearly he could have chosen to provide direct answers throughout this thread, but he chose a different path, wanting the market to provide those answers, not the teacher. Whether we agree or disagree over his method of teaching, it is what it is. What I have done is posted fully annotated charts (something he chose not to do) and provided some clues as to where I found helpful information.

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But unfortunately, while there is a WEALTH of information herein, I didn't find it enough (for me personally) to fully understand fractals.

 

jbarnby,

 

Thank you for your contributions to this thread, especially your recent postings. I have a couple of very sincere questions. What do you suggest, to those of us still trying to fully understand fractals? If the information in this thread isn't enough and if someone isn't already your friend (and therefore cannot join your chat room), where does one turn? Can you give us a few clues without crossing the line you wrote about above?

 

-river

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jbarnby,

 

Thank you for your contributions to this thread, especially your recent postings. I have a couple of very sincere questions. What do you suggest, to those of us still trying to fully understand fractals? If the information in this thread isn't enough and if someone isn't already your friend (and therefore cannot join your chat room), where does one turn? Can you give us a few clues without crossing the line you wrote about above?

 

-river

 

river you have been on this thread long enough to know that is a rhetorical question. The day Spyder left

 

so say we all

Edited by wilddog

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One of my favorite exercises in this entire thread. In fact, I love this channel drill so much that I use it as part of the training for each of my students. There's a TON of information within this drill, and it may take you a long time to piece it all together, but it has a bit of everything that one uses in their daily decision making process...sub fractals, containers, ve's, pace accelerations, unobservable events, etc...this list goes on! If you have a problem maintaining fractal integrity, this drill will be a challenge.

 

I don't have time to lead a discussion on this exercise, but I thought it worthwhile for some of you to revisit this drill, and perhaps work through it together.

 

Spyder tells us that a new channel begins at 1415 on 10/13/10. The channel ends at 1030 on 10/15/10.

 

Good luck!

 

 

I want to work through these channels---was wondering if anyone had some un-annotated charts for the 13th, 14th and 15th----my data doesn't go back that far.

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Sorry to be a bit ot here but what is the significance of the thin break lines in some of the formation boxes in the attached TN chart ?

 

Thanks, Steve

 

Software formatting, no significance

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    • Date: 18th April 2024. Market News – Stock markets benefit from Dollar correction. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Technical buying, bargain hunting, and risk aversion helped Treasuries rally and unwind recent losses. Yields dropped from the recent 2024 highs. Asian stock markets strengthened, as the US Dollar corrected in the wake of comments from Japan’s currency chief Masato Kanda, who said G7 countries continue to stress that excessive swings and disorderly moves in the foreign exchange market were harmful for economies. US Stockpiles expanded to 10-month high. The data overshadowed the impact of geopolitical tensions in the Middle East as traders await Israel’s response to Iran’s unprecedented recent attack. President Joe Biden called for higher tariffs on imports of Chinese steel and aluminum.   Financial Markets Performance:   The USDIndex stumbled, falling to 105.66 at the end of the day from the intraday high of 106.48. It lost ground against most of its G10 peers. There wasn’t much on the calendar to provide new direction. USDJPY lows retesting the 154 bottom! NOT an intervention yet. BoJ/MoF USDJPY intervention happens when there is more than 100+ pip move in seconds, not 50 pips. USOIL slumped by 3% near $82, as US crude inventories rose by 2.7 million barrels last week, hitting the highest level since last June, while gauges of fuel demand declined. Gold strengthened as the dollar weakened and bullion is trading at $2378.44 per ounce. Market Trends:   Wall Street closed in the red after opening with small corrective gains. The NASDAQ underperformed, slumping -1.15%, with the S&P500 -0.58% lower, while the Dow lost -0.12. The Nikkei closed 0.2% higher, the Hang Seng gained more than 1. European and US futures are finding buyers. A gauge of global chip stocks and AI bellwether Nvidia Corp. have both fallen into a technical correction. The TMSC reported its first profit rise in a year, after strong AI demand revived growth at the world’s biggest contract chipmaker. The main chipmaker to Apple Inc. and Nvidia Corp. recorded a 9% rise in net income, beating estimates. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 17th April 2024. Market News – Appetite for risk-taking remains weak. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks, Treasury yields and US Dollar stay firmed. Fed Chair Powell added to the recent sell off. His slightly more hawkish tone further priced out chances for any imminent action and the timing of a cut was pushed out further. He suggested if higher inflation does persist, the Fed will hold rates steady “for as long as needed.” Implied Fed Fund: There remains no real chance for a move on May 1 and at their intraday highs the June implied funds rate future showed only 5 bps, while July reflected only 10 bps. And a full 25 bps was not priced in until November, with 38 bps in cuts seen for 2024. US & EU Economies Diverging: Lagarde says ECB is moving toward rate cuts – if there are no major shocks. UK March CPI inflation falls less than expected. Output price inflation has started to nudge higher, despite another decline in input prices. Together with yesterday’s higher than expected wage numbers, the data will add to the arguments of the hawks at the BoE, which remain very reluctant to contemplate rate cuts. Canada CPI rose 0.6% in March, double the 0.3% February increase BUT core eased. The doors are still open for a possible cut at the next BoC meeting on June 5. IMF revised up its global growth forecast for 2024 with inflation easing, in its new World Economic Outlook. This is consistent with a global soft landing, according to the report. Financial Markets Performance:   USDJPY also inched up to 154.67 on expectations the BoJ will remain accommodative and as the market challenges a perceived 155 red line for MoF intervention. USOIL prices slipped -0.15% to $84.20 per barrel. Gold rose 0.24% to $2389.11 per ounce, a new record closing high as geopolitical risks overshadowed the impacts of rising rates and the stronger dollar. Market Trends:   Wall Street waffled either side of unchanged on the day amid dimming rate cut potential, rising yields, and earnings. The major indexes closed mixed with the Dow up 0.17%, while the S&P500 and NASDAQ lost -0.21% and -0.12%, respectively. Asian stock markets mostly corrected again, with Japanese bourses underperforming and the Nikkei down -1.3%. Mainland China bourses were a notable exception and the CSI 300 rallied 1.4%, but the MSCI Asia Pacific index came close to erasing the gains for this year. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.vvvvvvv
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