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I've stated before (in a previous post) that I think it's very difficult to teach and/or learn this method from a forum such as this. So many things are open to misinterpretation. To my knowledge there haven't been a lot of long-term success stories from this thread or previous threads on another site. Many have adapted this method or "merged" it with other ways of viewing the market. And to be honest, spyder changed his own personal approach when he started this thread on TL. Prior to the start of this thread he annotated as many as five or six (or more) gaussian levels, but he never posted those charts in a public forum. However, in 2009, he adjusted his approach to only annotate 3 fractals at most....tape, traverse, & channel.

 

With that said, I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from studying. Just know that it will likely take a long time before you "see" it. It definitely did with me and that was with a lot of support and help outside of this thread. I mentioned before that I privately mentor a small group of folks....but even with the day-to-day support and our frequent discussions, it takes some time for folks to 1. learn the method, and 2. learn to trust what they see and act upon it.

 

It's a process - and not an easy one. Hang in there!!

 

Thank you for explaining. Clearly you cannot privately mentor everyone here on the forum. :)

 

But, what I really want to know before I spend/lose another ridiculous amount of time trying to learn the method, is that, starting from fall 2010, really everything is there to learn the method succesfully. Because, if not, I'm not going to waste any more time on this. I already wasted way to much time on learning wrong, incomplete or, God forbid, wrong things. I'm asking because you said "most is there".

Otherwise I'd be more than happy to dive in.

 

You were lucky to get support and help outside of this thread, your friends from you, but most of us don't. Just sayin'.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm truly happy for you that you did manage to get it.

 

Heisenberg

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I just wanted to point out, that I appreciate your help and I see that many others do as well. When we spoke a couple months ago, it sounded like you were on the fence about getting involved. Many others had expressed the same view as well. Over the past couple of months things have changed, and I genuinely believe that many of us have started to improve.

 

I just wanted to challenge you publicly to not hold back. Share with us detailed answers with graphical explanations. Help provide us with information that is not a replay of the same old record. We may not be your family or good friends, but we are still a community of members that have been working hard together to achieve a common goal.

 

To everyone: Try to avoid repetitive generalities that are undermining and unhelpful. If you are explaining a topic the best you can, then no hurt in that.

 

If you were willing to go into detail on how you build your fractals that would be very helpful. Specifically, how you interpret the volume pace levels in determining the length of the cycle.

 

When your looking for a shift or change (start of B2B or R2R), and your looking to make an entry, what do you specifically look for to confirm that you are seeing Change, and not a continuation of the last leg of the prior trend?

 

Please do not attack other members on this forum. I have read this thread a number of times and the amount of charts Spyder posted fully annotated with explanations on TL, is exactly ZERO.

 

Secondly other people may not be at the same level as you, so things that are not helpful to you may be helpful to others.

 

This is a public forum and treat it as such.

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Thank you for explaining. Clearly you cannot privately mentor everyone here on the forum. :)

 

But, what I really want to know before I spend/lose another ridiculous amount of time trying to learn the method, is that, starting from fall 2010, really everything is there to learn the method succesfully. Because, if not, I'm not going to waste any more time on this. I already wasted way to much time on learning wrong, incomplete or, God forbid, wrong things. I'm asking because you said "most is there".

Otherwise I'd be more than happy to dive in.

 

You were lucky to get support and help outside of this thread, your friends from you, but most of us don't. Just sayin'.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm truly happy for you that you did manage to get it.

 

Heisenberg

 

Clearly there are spyder "gems" of information scattered throughout this thread. Some of the exchanges around fractals and gaussians in October 2010 could be quite helpful in my opinion.

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The attached chart has several gaussian possibilities.

 

My question, if anyone can help, is as noted on the chart:

 

"Where is the blue thicker line (fractal) FTT ?

Wouldn't we need one in order to start the red thicker line (fractal) ?"

 

There is always the possibility !, that my trend lines are wrong.

But regardless of thickness I think I am correct to say:

that we need an FTT to start a new leg on the same fractal ?

 

If so any feedback is most welcome.

 

thx

5aa7119e6151c_ES03-13(5Min)11_01_2013.1.thumb.jpg.4631a41af214bcc1f5a116d2e3274d08.jpg

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Hmmm....i do have a clear ftt @ 0935 on TradeNavigator. There seems to be a data issue here? edit: upon closer inspection it appears a LOT of your bars display different data than mine. For instance, the open/close is slightly different on many of your bars. I assume the range is different on some as well.

 

The attached chart has several gaussian possibilities.

 

My question, if anyone can help, is as noted on the chart:

 

"Where is the blue thicker line (fractal) FTT ?

Wouldn't we need one in order to start the red thicker line (fractal) ?"

 

There is always the possibility !, that my trend lines are wrong.

But regardless of thickness I think I am correct to say:

that we need an FTT to start a new leg on the same fractal ?

 

If so any feedback is most welcome.

 

thx

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Spyder gave us a channel drill.So I am writing to suggest to others; those who may have most of the puzzle pieces but are still missing some critical element....work the channel drill until you find the answers. Once you find the solutions the charts will become crystal clear almost overnight. http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/6320-price-volume-relationship-93.html#post76623

 

John

 

A trader can easily learn to differentiate the various tapes, traverses and channels formed by the market, as well as the sequences of Price and Volume which landmark these specific events, by starting with a known entity - one which exhibits certainty as defined by the market itself. Beginning with 10:10 AM on 7-13-2009, and continuing through until 15:30 PM on 8-5-2009 the market has provided just such an event. In addition, beginning with the very same 15:30 PM Bar on 8-5-2009, move forward until 13:30 PM on 8-11-2009 in order to see the exact same event, but in the opposite direction.

 

This Channel Drill requires the trader to construct their charts in such a fashion that one knows with 100% certainty the end has arrived for both entities described above. Whatever solution works for one part of a chart, must work for all charts in the time frames mentioned.

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/6320-price-volume-relationship-56.html#post73139

- Spydertrader

 

Click link, scroll down to "slow download" for the free download.

 

2009_Channel_Drill_ES.rar - download now for free. File sharing. Software file sharing. Free file hosting. File upload. FileFactory.com

 

First known entity lasts for 18 days.Second known entity for 4 days.Hmm.Thought i would repost this information for anyone who missed them and encourage discussion as we work thru this daunting task.hth

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Click link, scroll down to "slow download" for the free download.

 

2009_Channel_Drill_ES.rar - download now for free. File sharing. Software file sharing. Free file hosting. File upload. FileFactory.com

 

First known entity lasts for 18 days.Second known entity for 4 days.Hmm.Thought i would repost this information for anyone who missed them and encourage discussion as we work thru this daunting task.hth

 

I have to be totally honest - I should retract that post from Sept 2009. The answers I initially thought I found didn't prove consistently successful. IOW, it wasn't just a lateral problem. Turns out I continued to have "fractal issues" that needed to be resolved. It took me considerably more time after this channel drill to sort those out. But I imagine that experience sounds familiar to many of us - thinking we have had a breakthrough only to find it didn't hold up long term. Such is the nature of this journey, right? ;)

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What you see is what you get. Look at ehorn next-day's chart I posted too.

Hi SK0,

 

As shown on your annotated chart, there is a down slope of volume from the market open till 13:00. How do you know that you have a dominant traverse? Please see the attached 3Aug4Aug2009 for two full days of chart. TIA

DownSlope.jpg.936e1fe235d088ec45a87c424dd69f32.jpg

3Aug4Aug2009.thumb.jpg.7304c7e6cb961e0994d87d0843f089c1.jpg

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Hi SK0,

 

As shown on your annotated chart, there is a down slope of volume from the market open till 13:00. How do you know that you have a dominant traverse? Please see the attached 3Aug4Aug2009 for two full days of chart. TIA

 

Look at the scalloped-shaped volume bars of THAT Down Traverse starting at 13:00. It is non-dominant. What is before this non-dominant move? It must be a dominant move in opposite sentiment. We were given limited information set of context prior to THAT Down Traverse which was the main interest of the drill. So I assumed that some near ending bar of prior day as the start of Up Traverse. Pragmatically for the drill, we wanted to get the RTL of Up Traverse which could be flatten, accelerated or extended.

 

Now, what you see in the declining volume prior to 13:00 is the end effect of one or more pairs of M1 and M2. The volume during this phase is usually much weaker than the initial FTT. Use the Peak at the initial FTT for comparison to see the volume dominance.

 

To know with certainty of having correct annotation, you need to have full information set of context. That is, you must look back in days and aided with 15m, 30m or daily chart to get a swing point that is absolutely the beginning of a Channel or even Super-Channel. Then you build your Channel from there.

Edited by SK0

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Hi SK0,

 

As shown on your annotated chart, there is a down slope of volume from the market open till 13:00. How do you know that you have a dominant traverse? Please see the attached 3Aug4Aug2009 for two full days of chart. TIA

Don't forget the RTH pace.

5aa7119fb67e0_RTHPace.thumb.gif.35628f4bdd61f3af7744810a06345518.gif

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Don't forget the RTH pace.

 

Hi cnms2,

 

RTH pace, Dominant volume slope and Dominant volume slope make my pea brain spinning. Attached is a multi days of 30-minute chart and PV relationship is very tricky. Could you kindly annotate the chart with RTH pace rule being applied and some brief explanation? TIA?

MultiDays.thumb.jpg.dd3f8e42d0ce720b16bba23add26ab4b.jpg

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SK0 please could you post your annotated chart on this forum.

 

Thanks

 

Sorry that I have annoyed you with my replies to NYCMB. I am not an expert in annotation nor do I care too much. I merely want to live (= trade and learn and horn more advanced skills) with what is given in limited context instead of chasing dream and solving puzzles. I hope that she will figure out she can still live with limited context. Sorry if I annoy you again. I hereby bow out.

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Sorry that I have annoyed you with my replies to NYCMB. I am not an expert in annotation nor do I care too much. I merely want to live (= trade and learn and horn more advanced skills) with what is given in limited context instead of chasing dream and solving puzzles. I hope that she will figure out she can still live with limited context. Sorry if I annoy you again. I hereby bow out.

 

 

No need to bow out. Well said. The goal is to make money. There are people out there using parts of this method that are successful.

 

Good luck

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Such is the nature of this journey, right? ;)

 

by starting with a known entity in order to see the exact same event, but in the opposite direction.

- Spydertrader

 

Jbarnby,thank you for that frank reply.You are so correct about the nature of this journey.I think spydertrader had a few reasons for posting this channel drill.One is the huge difference in the amount of days it takes the market to complete "the exact same event" and the hope this would be a wake up call for those learning this method.I believe these "events" spydertrader is referring to are channel fractals.The first event (beginning with 10:10 AM on 7-13-2009 and continuing through until 15:30 PM on 8-5-2009) i think is an up channel fractal event.The second event(15:30 PM Bar on 8-5-2009, move forward until 13:30 PM on 8-11-2009) a down channel fractal.Could it be said that "It doesn't appear you need my help at all" ? Tia

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Jbarnby,thank you for that frank reply.You are so correct about the nature of this journey.I think spydertrader had a few reasons for posting this channel drill.One is the huge difference in the amount of days it takes the market to complete "the exact same event" and the hope this would be a wake up call for those learning this method.I believe these "events" spydertrader is referring to are channel fractals.The first event (beginning with 10:10 AM on 7-13-2009 and continuing through until 15:30 PM on 8-5-2009) i think is an up channel fractal event.The second event(15:30 PM Bar on 8-5-2009, move forward until 13:30 PM on 8-11-2009) a down channel fractal.Could it be said that "It doesn't appear you need my help at all" ? Tia

 

Ha - in all honesty I don't recall that I ever went back and reworked those channels. But yes, those were supposedly channels.

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Hi cnms2,

 

RTH pace, Dominant volume slope and Dominant volume slope make my pea brain spinning. Attached is a multi days of 30-minute chart and PV relationship is very tricky. Could you kindly annotate the chart with RTH pace rule being applied and some brief explanation? TIA?

When day-trading, the RTH pace trough affects your analysis. During the midday hours additional faster fractals can be observed. Volume slopes that span over several hours are affected. Money making velocity changes.

 

Your chart doesn't follow the bar coloring recommended for this method.

5aa7119fd5d57_090723080530min.thumb.jpg.184ec2423b6fdc2f3e19bd5d72746ae6.jpg

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I thought this might be a fun sequence to bring up for discussion. I have it on "good authority" that this snippet represents a Traverse. For context, this is a non-dominant traverse of a down channel. We have a complete skinny cycle up to 1105, then a down tape followed by an up tape. Would you have seen it as such? Why or why not?

Filtertip's question about that FTT brought to my memory this drill submitted by jbarnby over an year ago: where that container ends, and why?

060309.thumb.png.9cec62480eed3714991bff64fb00551b.png

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Clearly there are spyder "gems" of information scattered throughout this thread. Some of the exchanges around fractals and gaussians in October 2010 could be quite helpful in my opinion.

 

Trying to narrow things down, more specifically, what am I looking for? Posts from Spydertrader, gucci or both?

 

thanks,

Heisenberg

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Trying to narrow things down, more specifically, what am I looking for? Posts from Spydertrader, gucci or both?

 

thanks,

Heisenberg

 

My recommendation is Spydertrader only.

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    • Date: 16th April 2024. Market News – Stocks and currencies sell off; USD up. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks and currencies sell off, while the US Dollar picks up haven flows. Treasuries yields spiked again to fresh 2024 peaks before paring losses into the close, post, the stronger than expected retail sales eliciting a broad sell off in the markets. Rates surged as the data pushed rate cut bets further into the future with July now less than a 50-50 chance. Wall Street finished with steep declines led by tech. Stocks opened in the green on a relief trade after Israel repulsed the well advertised attack from Iran on Sunday. But equities turned sharply lower and extended last week’s declines amid the rise in yields. Investor concerns were intensified as Israel threatened retaliation. There’s growing anxiety over earnings even after a big beat from Goldman Sachs. UK labor market data was mixed, as the ILO unemployment rate unexpectedly lifted, while wage growth came in higher than anticipated – The data suggests that the labor market is catching up with the recession. Mixed messages then for the BoE. China grew by 5.3% in Q1 however the numbers are causing a lot of doubts over sustainability of this growth. The bounce came in the first 2 months of the year. In March, growth in retail sales slumped and industrial output decelerated below forecasts, suggesting challenges on the horizon. Today: Germany ZEW, US housing starts & industrial production, Fed Vice Chair Philip Jefferson speech, BOE Bailey speech & IMF outlook. Earnings releases: Morgan Stanley and Bank of America. Financial Markets Performance:   The US Dollar rallied to 106.19 after testing 106.25, gaining against JPY and rising to 154.23, despite intervention risk. Yen traders started to see the 160 mark as the next Resistance level. Gold surged 1.76% to $2386 per ounce amid geopolitical risks and Chinese buying, even as the USD firmed and yields climbed. USOIL is flat at $85 per barrel. Market Trends:   Breaks of key technical levels exacerbated the sell off. Tech was the big loser with the NASDAQ plunging -1.79% to 15,885 while the S&P500 dropped -1.20% to 5061, with the Dow sliding -0.65% to 37,735. The S&P had the biggest 2-day sell off since March 2023. Nikkei and ASX lost -1.9% and -1.8% respectively, and the Hang Seng is down -2.1%. European bourses are down more than -1% and US futures are also in the red. CTA selling tsunami: “Just a few points lower CTAs will for the first time this year start selling in size, to add insult to injury, we are breaking major trend-lines in equities and the gamma stabilizer is totally gone.” Short term CTA threshold levels are kicking in big time according to GS. Medium term is 4873 (most important) while the long term level is at 4605. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 15th April 2024. Market News – Negative Reversion; Safe Havens Rally. Trading Leveraged Products is risky Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Markets weigh risk of retaliation cycle in Middle East. Initially the retaliatory strike from Iran on Israel fostered a haven bid, into bonds, gold and other haven assets, as it threatens a wider regional conflict. However, this morning, Oil and Asian equity markets were muted as traders shrugged off fears of a war escalation in the Middle East. Iran said “the matter can be deemed concluded”, and President Joe Biden has called on Israel to exercise restraint following Iran’s drone and missile strike, as part of Washington’s efforts to ease tensions in the Middle East and minimize the likelihood of a widespread regional conflict. New US and UK sanctions banned deliveries of Russian supplies, i.e. key industrial metals, produced after midnight on Friday. Aluminum jumped 9.4%, nickel rose 8.8%, suggesting brokers are bracing for major supply chain disruption. Financial Markets Performance:   The USDIndex fell back from highs over 106 to currently 105.70. The Yen dip against USD to 153.85. USOIL settled lower at 84.50 per barrel and Gold is trading below session highs at currently $2357.92 per ounce. Copper, more liquid and driven by the global economy over recent weeks, was more subdued this morning. Currently at $4.3180. Market Trends:   Asian stock markets traded mixed, but European and US futures are slightly higher after a tough session on Friday and yields have picked up. Mainland China bourses outperformed overnight, after Beijing offered renewed regulatory support. The PBOC meanwhile left the 1-year MLF rate unchanged, while once again draining funds from the system. Nikkei slipped 1% to 39,114.19. On Friday, NASDAQ slumped -1.62% to 16,175, unwinding most of Thursday’s 1.68% jump to a new all-time high at 16,442. The S&P500 fell -1.46% and the Dow dropped 1.24%. Declines were broadbased with all 11 sectors of the S&P finishing in the red. JPMorgan Chase sank 6.5% despite reporting stronger profit in Q1. The nation’s largest bank gave a forecast for a key source of income this year that fell below Wall Street’s estimate, calling for only modest growth. Apple shipments drop by 10% in Q1. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • The morning of my last post I happened to glance over to the side and saw “...angst over the FOMC’s rate trajectory triggered a flight to safety, hence boosting the haven demand. “   http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/topic/21621-hfmarkets-hfmcom-market-analysis-services/page/17/?tab=comments#comment-228522   I reacted, but didn’t take time to  respond then... will now --- HFBlogNews, I don’t know if you are simply aggregating the chosen narratives for the day or if it’s your own reporting... either way - “flight to safety”????  haven ?????  Re: “safety  - ”Those ‘solid rocks’ are getting so fragile a hit from a dandelion blowball might shatter them... like now nobody wants to buy longer term new issues at these rates...yet the financial media still follows the scripts... The imagery they pound day in and day out makes it look like the Fed knows what they’re doing to help ‘us’... They do know what they’re doing - but it certainly is not to help ‘us’... and it is not to ‘control’ inflation... And at some point in the not too distant future, the interest due will eat a huge portion of the ‘revenue’ Re: “haven” The defaults are coming ...  The US will not be the first to default... but it will certainly not be the very last to default !! ...Enough casual anti-white racism for the day  ... just sayin’
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