Reading Charts in Real Time

[Marko23 10]

...Its hard to explain why, but for me I have difficulty spotting these during the day. They always look so obvious after the fact though...

 

If you could explain that, you would have no difficulties to spot them...

 

The chart is a good example, because it also shows, that the 123-heuristic does not always work, I'll come to that later.

 

First: the following explanation is my way to sync with the trend; perhaps it can help

 

When I see this break of trendline, I assume to correction to the upmove. A correction normally retraces from 25% to 80%. A standard guess (for me) is 1/3 to 2/3, the fibs have 38% to 62%, Gann has 3/8 to 5/8.

 

If the market gives me an unconfirmed support in above range, I that it as the market's guess for a retracement and give preference to the market's guess.

 

Next I assume that the correction will take some form of a three part movement, "abc" in EW terms.

 

Now I observe the market with two very loose assumptions

a) retracement because of broken trend

b) three part movement

and absolulely no ego. I do not want to be right about these assumptions.

Anything can happen with the following bars.

 

Two bars later

I observe a small upmove and confirmed support and do not trade it, because this may be part "b" of an abc down. I have the "b24x" rule against going long.

 

Another three bars later

price is at confirmed support again.

 

If I trade short, this would be the continuation of the "abc" correction, which could come to an end at any bar before or at my 2/3 guess. Since this correction is the "b" of an "abc" movement in the direction of the upmove, I would violate my "b24x" rule. Therefore I wait again.

 

To be continued...

Edited January 16, 2010 by Marko23

[TradeRunner 10]

Thursday: 5 Trades:) (-60)

 

 

So when I see someone posting charts with 5-7 trades in one day, I would say that there is some over trading taking place.

 

Ok

 

Friday: 1 Trade (+9)

[thalestrader 14]

Friday: 1 Trade (+9)

 

Good. I do not have time to check right now, but I am curious - did you get stopped out at +9 on a trailing stop? Would you have made your +30 if you had not changed your stop management? Or would this have been a -15 trade?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[BlowFish 10]

I always struggled to see Vic 123's, I borrowed this chart from his book to illustrate where I go wrong most of the time. The black arrows are there to point out his 1,2 and 3 as they are a little hard to spot.

 

The blue arrows point out what I would have seen in real time and probably traded. Its hard to explain why, but for me I have difficulty spotting these during the day. They always look so obvious after the fact though.

 

Although I have followed this thread from the beginning I have not tried hard to learn from it :crap: So I am going back and starting over from the beginning, hopefully I will catch back up before too long.

 

I might have marked it as you had too, I don't think it is 'wrong'. You might want to read TT's posts a couple of pages back about magnitude and scale of 123's. The ones that you and I might have marked are slightly smaller magnitude. Some people (particularly if detecting SH's SL's programaticaly) might want to see a 3 bar high or even more. Some might want to have a couple of bars to the left and right of the swing bar. The other obvious way to quantify is by magnitude in price, so for example you might want to see price pull back a good 5 or 10 ticks.

 

You can make a science of this but it's probably enough to simply be a bit more aware of scale.

 

Another interesting thing you said is about hindsight. Well as you might tell from my comments above you need some sort of confirmation (in price or time) that a high or low has occurred. You wont know that the high ticjk is in fact the high tick the moment it occurs, it requires subsequent lower ticks. It is up to you to decide what is an adequate pullback to say "ahh that was a minor SH". This depends on your objectives (what size moves you are planning to capture).

 

I dunno if it might help but most charts have HH LL indicators or a zigzag indicator would do. I am not suggesting using such long term but it might help train your eye. It also will let you objectively see what effect changing the parameters for a swing has.

[BlowFish 10]

. I have the "b24x" rule against going long.

.

 

Great post. The 'sequence' of your thought process comes through very clearly as PA unfolds. I am not sure I completely got your b24x rule. Would you mind expanding that a little?

 

To be continued...

 

Look forward to it

[rigel 10]

Well, there are two different customs going on here concerning the 123. As you noted, there is Trader Vic's 123. Another writer by the name Joe Ross uses the 123 as you note also - high, low, lower high. Thus, there may be some confusion.

 

Joe Ross's nomenclature makes for easy labeling and communication on a forum, but Trader Vic's understanding really is the controlling logic to the approach I use. I had an "aha" moment recently where I realized that these two were being presented by me as identical, when in fact they are not.

 

As a result, I fear that many here perhaps fell into the trap common to those who attempt to follow Joe Ross of seeing these little 123's everywhere without every learning to distinguish those that are indicating a tradable trend change from those which are merely a continuation of the immediate trend. Trader Vic gets you in on the change (and to be fair, I do believe, as Blowfish has stated, that that is Joe Ross's intention as well).

 

Again, sorry for the confusion.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

You are right, there are many variations to 1-2-3 setup under different names depending on whether it is being employed to identify a trend reversal or trend continuation.

e.g. Humphrey Lloyd (Traders Press- Trading S&P futures, 1997) used this pattern in conjunction with Bollinger Bands, Joe Ross has also done the same as well as introducing his version with Ross Hook , Trader's trick Entry etc.

Then there is Vic Sperando ofcourse with his 1-2-3 and 2b or not 2b:)

Others (see attached word document) have introduction terms such as SNAPBACK and other modifications with trendlines etc to gain better entry.

Recently Al Brooks combined that pattern with Wedges, Trade Channel Breakout and reversal etc.

 

Once again demonstrating, "There is more than one way to skin a cat;)

A Pattern you can trade using nothing but a Price Chart.doc

[rcossey73 10]

If you could explain that, you would have no difficulties to spot them...

 

I think you just nailed it with this next part of your reply:

 

If I trade short, this would be the continuation of the "abc" correction, which could come to an end at any bar before or at my 2/3 guess. Since this correction is the "b" of an "abc" movement in the direction of the upmove, I would violate my "b24x" rule. Therefore I wait again.

 

 

I would have went short there for sure and felt like it was a good trade. I think I need to get a better understanding of the "abc" to see if it helps. After a losing trade I will often look back at why I took the trade and discover that it was actually a correction from a different degree, although I still have trouble figuring out which degree it was from sometimes.

 

To be continued...

 

Thanks for the great reply and I will be watching for the continuation.

[TradeRunner 10]

Good. I do not have time to check right now, but I am curious - did you get stopped out at +9 on a trailing stop? Would you have made your +30 if you had not changed your stop management? Or would this have been a -15 trade?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

Hi Thales

 

Yes I was trailing my stops and my initial stop loss was 24 and tp was 52. This would have been a break even trade with my original rules or -15 without the breakeven rule.

 

No regrets regarding the +9 instead of +52. If anything I think I gave it too much slack and should have been a break even after the initial breakout and then reenetered on second breakout. Do you ever enter on second breakouts?

 

TradeRunner

[Marko23 10]

Great post. The 'sequence' of your thought process comes through very clearly as PA unfolds. I am not sure I completely got your b24x rule. Would you mind expanding that a little?

 

Look forward to it

 

Thanks! I'll come back to "b24x" and scaling shortly, but want to continue with rcossey's example first. This is of course hindsight! Anyway, it should be my thinking, when I'm fully aware of PA, which is the case sometimes.

 

Price now displayes two moves of same degree, size shown on the right. If I trade short now, I trade this degree. Therefore the stop has to be at the top of the upmove not at rcossey's "2". Only after price crosses that point, I know for sure price didn't make it downwards. If I set the stop a bit above rcossey's "2", I'm an easy prey.

 

So if I can take this risk, my target is the beginning of the upmove, about 1.3R, and I have to be very patient.

If I choose not to take this risk, I wait.

 

Six bars later, the early "2" has been taken out and a chop zone may develop. The green comment is still vaild.

Price made two attempts for a new high with no success. When it breaks support now, I'll perceive the beginning of a downtrend and can short with a slightly lower stop (visible) and a better chance (assumed!) to get to the beginning of the upmove.

 

8 bars later, support is broken, I traded short and am by no means save now.

A measured move down is visible and price could very easily stop on its way down. Therefore the stop must remain at point "2". Risk cannot be reduced in this situation even after 7 bars in the trade.

 

To be continued....

Edited January 16, 2010 by Marko23

[rcossey73 10]

Price now displayes two moves of same degree, size shown on the right. If I trade short now, I trade this degree. Therefore the stop has to be at the top of the upmove not at rcossey's "2". Only after price crosses that point, I know for sure price didn't make it downwards. If I set the stop a bit above rcossey's "2", I'm an easy prey.

 

So if I can take this risk, my target is the beginning of the upmove, about 1.3R, and I have to be very patient.

 

This is an obvious problem for me, I would have put the stop just above "My 2" and never considered the top of the upmove. I would not have traded that if my stop had to be placed up there.

 

I think you opened my eyes up to an obvious problem I have and I need to try to look at the bigger picture a lot more. I tend to only focus on the current picture. I think this is because I always traded on 233 tick charts, without much success. I recently moved to 5 mins and things have improved for sure, but I hardly ever zoom out or look at the longer time frame. I struggle to look at 15 min candles as I keep thinking I am missing something or that I will be too late :doh:

 

Thank you very much for taking time to break it down...

[rcossey73 10]

You might want to read TT's posts a couple of pages back about magnitude and scale of 123's.

 

Actually that post is what got me to thinking I was looking at things wrong. Maybe wrong isn't the right word, but not the same way as others here that seem to be more successful at trading like this than I am.

[Marko23 10]

...

I struggle to look at 15 min candles as I keep thinking I am missing something or that I will be too late...

 

Glad to help you. They say "80% of trading is waiting." As a rule of thumb how long it may take, please look at your example 9 bars later

The orange lines are a guess of the time to the first target. The movement down has three parts. The third part took about the same time as parts one and two together. This sum is just a guess, which worked quite well in this example. Please don't try it in a 5m chart. The longer the time frame, the better. If the market wait for news release during the day, these guesses are complete nonsense.

 

All my "calculations" in the chart are rules of thumb or guesses, one draws a vertical or horizontal bar and moves it to a new place. They are not exact and I can easily give them up if the market decides otherwise. I do not have to be right with these guesses and am (more or less) free to perceive what the market does.

 

The 1st target is reached and the stop can be lowered to break even. A new upmove is always possible.

 

After another 10 bars price drops under the 1st target and the stop may be lowered again.

It took 28 bars to get to a mentionable profit, more than 5 weeks of trading on a daily chart.

 

After another 10 bars price finally fell below the 2nd target.

 

Thanks for your patience with these rather lengthy comments.

[thalestrader 14]

I do not agree that all your 123s are clear, it seems to me that some of them you have marked are simply bar breaks. Yes, I used the taboo word of 'bar' I understand what you say above but if one is entering off those small 123s that are not clearly visible from the 15m chart then there will be a HUGE amount of these. So much so probably as to overwhelm the trader which ones to take and which ones not.

 

Is it that you think them not clear, or you think them too insignificant to warrant trading off of them? After all, the very definition of trend and what it means to change trend direction demands the presence of a 123 at the point of the turn. Even a "V" bottom has a pullback that prints the first reall higher low.

 

You said that you did not agree that every trend change does not start with a a 123. I think you must mean, even if you are not aware that this is what you mean, that not every trend change commences with a 123 you would consider tradable. This simply means that you have developed some criteria by which you "filter" your interpretation of price action. That is fine. But you need to recognize that you are doing so, and if you are not aware of what those criteria are, you need to try to figure it out for yourself. But every trend change starts with a 123. And every trend is a cascading of 123's in the same direction (except for a sideways trend, which is either a series of 123's alternating in direction, or a series of alternating HL's and LH's (coil, hinge). What I think you are saying is that there is a size or degree of trend change that you think is optimal, and not every trend change seems to offer a clear opportunity compose of the size swings you prefer to trade. I may be wrong, but I think I am not.

 

 

I thought that to speed up my process I would look at very small time frame tick charts because this would expose me to more price action per day. I was trying to trade the obvious 123s, very similar to what is advocated here but I lost out huge just because there was so many of these patterns on a small time frame that do not go anywhere.

 

But they do go somewhere, I guarantee it! Its just you have to learn what to expect from a swing sequence depending upon its magnitude. I have made no secret that I use fib expansions for my profit targets. Why? Because it idiot proofs my trades (me being the idiot) from expecting too much from a particular trade. Of course, this means I sometimes am taking profits while the move is just about to pick up a head of steam. You have no idea how many times I bought right off the very bottom or sold near the very top of important trend reversals, and yet because of my profit strategy which assures that my profit targets are reasonable for the swing sequence I am trading, I lose my position while watching price move vast distances in short periods of time without me. but hey - "thems the breaks."

 

To date in the majority of my trading, I have been unable to extract consistent profits with a single entry unless the conditions are volatile. I would like to be able to hone my skills to be able to trade with a single entry so I can do an all in approach and enter every trade at its max position size.

 

This is the statement that led me to write all that came before. Of course you require volatility. We do not get paid without it. But it seems to imply that you are looking to get something out of your trades that can only be had infrequently. If you were to press me what I think is criss crossed in your trading, my best current guess would be that you want trendfollowing type profits, but you want to get them on a time frame that minimizes your participation in the market. Again, I may be wrong, but before you dismiss my musings out of hand, why not consider them for a few moments. While I may be wrong about the specifics, I am right (as are you) that something is wrong. Let's try to think it out for you.

 

Yes, I understand what you mean by varying degrees, but it looks to me that you know when to apply the smaller degree and when not to.

 

The answer is not in me, MK, it is in you. You understand what I mean about degrees, yet I do not think you understand what I expect from trades based upon swings of various sizes.

 

What do you expect to get out of trading, MK? I think that may be a good question to return to if you are to move forward. I mean this sincerely and in a helpful spirit. I hope you receive it as such.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[thalestrader 14]

Once again demonstrating, "There is more than one way to skin a cat;)

 

Actually, there really is only one way. A few different paths lead to the same right place; and many more wrong paths exist to lead to ruin.

 

Thank you for sharing the word document, by the way. At first glance, it looks like it describes one of the few right paths to the right place.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[thalestrader 14]

You can make a science of this but it's probably enough to simply be a bit more aware of scale.

 

Indeed!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[thalestrader 14]

Thanks for your patience with these rather lengthy comments.

 

Thank you!

 

I know how much work goes into a good series of posts like you gave us this morning. I am thankful to have someone like you here in the thread helping others.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[thalestrader 14]

I struggle to look at 15 min candles as I keep thinking I am missing something or that I will be too late

 

At one point during my early trading years, the thought occurred to me that I have lost more money trying to be early while I have often made out very well when I have been "late" entering a move. This approach is really meant to help you "be late," i.e. enter after price has indicated a reversal of some degree is starting. Being early is far more dangerous than being late. The problem is to overcome the bias that says, "why would I want to sell it here when I could have sold it higher," or "I'm not going to buy here, its already up so much." We all want to buy the bottom and sell the top, and yet the easy money to buy after the bottom or sell after the top is confirmed.

 

By the way, rcossey, What are you trading (sorry if I missed it)?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[rcossey73 10]

 

By the way, rcossey, What are you trading (sorry if I missed it)?

 

Currently not actively trading just watching ES, 6E, 6J.

 

I had an awesome 2008 trading ETF's (2 and 3x leveraged) and YM,ES. Thought I was superman. It was mostly luck! I thought I had found something that worked really well with RSI and MACD. Then 2009 started out as a disaster and kept getting worse so around the end of May I quit trading.

 

In Oct. I made the decision to start from scratch and try this again, but this time around I am taking a much slower approach and not using any indicators. I have mostly been reading and watching charts when I can.

 

I will add that I have (still do) been swing trading stocks and index etf's since the mid '90's but mostly in retirement accounts. The average hold time is 45days.

[MidKnight 12]

G'day Thales,

 

Is it that you think them not clear, or you think them too insignificant to warrant trading off of them? After all, the very definition of trend and what it means to change trend direction demands the presence of a 123 at the point of the turn. Even a "V" bottom has a pullback that prints the first reall higher low.

 

It seems you are using the 123 definition to encompass anything that gives a first HL or LH - I am not as it was my understanding that a 123 was in the following sequence of a HH-HL-LH or LL-LH-HL. I of course am in agreement that every PA trend change starts with a first HL or LH. Perhaps I have a misunderstanding of the JR 123 definition, but I thought it had to be in the sequence I describe which will exclude some sharp trend reversals.

 

Some of your marked 123s are nothing more than inside bar breaks on the 15m time frame - and those to me are certainly not clear. If one is considering those as a 123 on say the 15m chart, then to be consistent, without need of context (because 123 is an edge as you say) one could take every inside bar break and it would have a positive expectancy. I've tested this programatically 4 or 5 years ago - and it wasn't an edge then. You see what I mean here? Sometimes you trade them with this small inside bar look, sometimes you don't. I'm not trying to point out any 'flaw' in how you are doing things, just trying to hopefully hit home to you how much your discretion comes into play and really the 123 itself is the smallest but most mechanical piece of your trading.

 

You said that you did not agree that every trend change does not start with a a 123. I think you must mean, even if you are not aware that this is what you mean, that not every trend change commences with a 123 you would consider tradable. This simply means that you have developed some criteria by which you "filter" your interpretation of price action. That is fine. But you need to recognize that you are doing so, and if you are not aware of what those criteria are, you need to try to figure it out for yourself. But every trend change starts with a 123. And every trend is a cascading of 123's in the same direction (except for a sideways trend, which is either a series of 123's alternating in direction, or a series of alternating HL's and LH's (coil, hinge). What I think you are saying is that there is a size or degree of trend change that you think is optimal, and not every trend change seems to offer a clear opportunity compose of the size swings you prefer to trade. I may be wrong, but I think I am not.

 

Hopefully cleared up and answered above....

 

 

But they do go somewhere, I guarantee it! Its just you have to learn what to expect from a swing sequence depending upon its magnitude.

 

This guarantee to me implies there are no losers if one trades the 123s which I know not to be the case. If we go back to my exploration I don't recall any comments about me not seeing the 123s. When I trade a 123 with say a 20+ difference between point 1 and 2 and say at least 50% of the range from point 1 and 2 is for point 3. Then it breaks point 2 by just enough to trigger me in to the trade and then reverses, you are saying that I am expecting too much for that magnitude of swing? I seem to remember that happening a fair bit in my exploration and certainly happened a lot during the early exploration in my first year of trading that I was previously describing.

 

This is the statement that led me to write all that came before. Of course you require volatility. We do not get paid without it. But it seems to imply that you are looking to get something out of your trades that can only be had infrequently.

 

All I meant by the statement was that I find markets easier to read in terms of timing more exact entries and exits when the market is highly volatile. I have no idea why, maybe it is partly due to the speed of the oscillations and the pace of the market. It just seems that I always have best results under these conditions and tend to actually sync up with the market well.

 

If you were to press me what I think is criss crossed in your trading, my best current guess would be that you want trendfollowing type profits, but you want to get them on a time frame that minimizes your participation in the market. Again, I may be wrong, but before you dismiss my musings out of hand, why not consider them for a few moments. While I may be wrong about the specifics, I am right (as are you) that something is wrong. Let's try to think it out for you.

 

I don't get what you mean by the part in bold. Yeah, I do hate being on the sidelines on large multi-day moves that to me give little opportunity to participate (like GU late last week). When I did review for this past week, After we had done the large move up and then started to creep higher, the easier trades to me appeared in the USA session which is way past my bedtime. I actually like to be active in the market but I find with FX it is easier to only look for 1-3 trades a day rather than the 20+ I am more accustomed to on the Hang Seng.

 

What do you expect to get out of trading, MK? I think that may be a good question to return to if you are to move forward. I mean this sincerely and in a helpful spirit. I hope you receive it as such.

 

Massively broad question Thales. I could write a book on it

 

With kind regards,

MK

[jonbig04 10]

Is it that you think them not clear, or you think them too insignificant to warrant trading off of them? After all, the very definition of trend and what it means to change trend direction demands the presence of a 123 at the point of the turn. Even a "V" bottom has a pullback that prints the first reall higher low.

 

You said that you did not agree that every trend change does not start with a a 123. I think you must mean, even if you are not aware that this is what you mean, that not every trend change commences with a 123 you would consider tradable. This simply means that you have developed some criteria by which you "filter" your interpretation of price action. That is fine. But you need to recognize that you are doing so, and if you are not aware of what those criteria are, you need to try to figure it out for yourself. But every trend change starts with a 123. And every trend is a cascading of 123's in the same direction (except for a sideways trend, which is either a series of 123's alternating in direction, or a series of alternating HL's and LH's (coil, hinge). What I think you are saying is that there is a size or degree of trend change that you think is optimal, and not every trend change seems to offer a clear opportunity compose of the size swings you prefer to trade. I may be wrong, but I think I am not...

Thales

 

 

I don't mean to interrupt what is an interesting exchange, but I think MK is concentrating TOO hard, if that's possible. With respect MK, I think you are over-thinking this. I'm not saying it's easy to master (how would I know), but what I am saying is that what Thales does, and what every single good trader I know does, is simple.

 

You mentioned that not every trend change starts with the 123, well of course it does! If you can find be an uptrend that doesn't start with a low and a higher low I would be pretty surprised. Of course trading that with a good entry and risk management is obviously the hard part. But IMO using HHs HLs and LHs LLs is pretty fundamental.The respective size of the swings, or waves or whatever you want to call them also differ. Just like a trendline, support and resistance, or a double top.

[ziebarf 10]

Actually that post is what got me to thinking I was looking at things wrong. Maybe wrong isn't the right word, but not the same way as others here that seem to be more successful at trading like this than I am.

 

Honestly I view this trade in the exact same way, and I don't feel wrong about it. I have been thinking a lot about the pork bellies chart you posted. I would like to add a different perspective on how I would have traded that level.

 

First off, your 1-2-3 looks completely legitimate in my eyes. The only thing about trading it is you must be aware that it is second in line from the aggressive ways you could trade this area. By that, I mean that it is clearly visible that price was rejected at a level that appears to be supporting the correction to the rally. Shorting this you must be aware that you are hoping this level will break. Its a coin flip, but still not a bad trade in my opinion. In this instance the market even makes a lower high right after your short signaling to cut the trade. What does that lead to? A small loss.

 

Areas of reversals will often have shake outs, this is just something we have to deal with. So after taking your small loss, you are likely going to cool your jets and wait for the level to break. Not 15 days later price has broken the level and you are left an opportunity to get short not terribly far from your original short (point 3).

 

So to summarize, if you take the aggressive play you must understand there is a good chance the trade will not work and the criteria you are looking for. If you want the conservative trade, which might not occur at all, you must wait. But in the end, you are not viewing things "wrong"

 

Of course this all is in hindsight from a guy who hasn't made a dime in the market, but I am just trying to help.

Edited January 17, 2010 by ziebarf

[BlowFish 10]

Im playing catch up so TT might have answered already.

 

 

Some of your marked 123s are nothing more than inside bar breaks on the 15m time frame - and those to me are certainly not clear. If one is considering those as a 123 on say the 15m chart, then to be consistent, .................................................

 

Looking at the examples from the beginning of the thread you will see that TT is targeting swings of different magnitude. These seem to have a different 'look and feel' though the underlying principles are absolutely the same. With the benefit of hindsight perhaps this discussion would have been helpful earlier in the thread I can certainly see how it might be a little confusing.

 

This guarantee to me implies there are no losers if one trades the 123s

 

He said they go somewhere not to your target! Price will either take out the last swing high or the last swing low.

 

You could have quite a long discussion about the "time frame that minimizes your participation" This is all about picking charts that allow you to see what you need to see to reach your objectives and no more.For example if you are trying to catch 1-5 day 'swing trades' looking at HH LL's on a 1 minute chart is likely to provide you with way too many potentially tradeable spots. Selecting say a 1hour or even a 4hour chart will provide the 123's that delimit those 1-5 day swings without too many abortive trades in between. It minimises your participation except where you should be participating. Don't diddle in the middle!

[Marko23 10]

... I am not sure I completely got your b24x rule. Would you mind expanding that a little?

...

 

The "b24x" rule is another rule of thumb from the back of a paper napkin, nothing carved in stone.

 

The following drawings are from Prechter's EW booklet:

 

 

 

Normally I would not put on a trade in one of the waves marked in red.

[Marko23 10]

Thank you!

 

I know how much work goes into a good series of posts like you gave us this morning. I am thankful to have someone like you here in the thread helping others.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

It was a bit of a challenge and not without self-interest to read a 17 year old reprint of a pork belly chart. Usually it helps me if I can help.

[thalestrader 14]

Yes, I understand what you mean by varying degrees, but it looks to me that you know when to apply the smaller degree and when not to.

 

The answer is not in me, MK, it is in you. You understand what I mean about degrees, yet I do not think you understand what I expect from trades based upon swings of various sizes.

 

What do you expect to get out of trading, MK? I think that may be a good question to return to if you are to move forward. I mean this sincerely and in a helpful spirit. I hope you receive it as such.

 

Massively broad question Thales. I could write a book on it

 

I was thinking more of a business objective statement rather than a book. Assuming your goal is indeed to profit from your operations - what sort of profit do you expect and how would you like to acquire it? At the very least you might consider pondering those for a while, even if you think initially you already know the answers. There is something beyond mere technical considerations that is causing your difficulty, MK. I truly do believe the answer to your quandary is within you, and not ina anything I can do or say technically about the maner in which I trade.

 

You have to be willing to work on yourself.

 

There are other points in you post to which I will have to respond later.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales