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Eiger

[VSA] Volume Spread Analsysis Part III

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You forgot Shell Divers, One-Eyed Joes, and Opps! You need to know them all to pass the test :)

 

It is funny that people get so pissy over these things. It really makes me laugh. All of these names come from Bob Evans. Evans owned Wyckoff Associates (before it becameWyckoff/SMI) and was keen on teaching people how to trade the Wyckoff Method. In the 1940s, he used to send out a ree-to-reel tape machine along with teaching tapes of the then current markets! Eventually, they had more subscribers to the Course, tape machines became less expensive, and the just sent out the tapes. In any event, Evans was quite an educator. He was also a folksy kind of guy and looked to provide metaphors and analogies -- little stories -- that people could relate to and in that relating, develop a better understanding of Wyckoff principles and how the markets move. That's all. I really don't think he was trying to circumvent or undermine learning the Wyckoff method to understanding the market in any way. He wasn't malicious or trying to steer traders astray. As i see it, his intent was simply to teach and he had much of value to teach.

 

Many of his old tapes from the 1940s through the 1960s are available, some in MP3 format. Listen to one or two of them yourself and draw your own conclusions. I doubt you will view him as a manifestation of the Evil Empire :)

 

Eiger

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Ahh a test :D :D Actually i think I am up to date on the lingo except some of the SMI additions creeks, boy scouts, ice flows, polar bears etc.

 

It doesn't really matter. None of these are mentioned in Undeclared Secrets, and this is the VSA Forum, after all. :)

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As for "Unit 3", that's part of the SMI course. As I said, Wyckoff makes no mention of them.

 

He makes no mention of "flow," "boxes" - however famous, or Ticks either. I've looked really hard through the course and found no mention of any of these things. Hmmm, how do we understand this? Are you saying that if you think it OK, then it must be Wyckoff? Get off your high horse. And, Wyckoff has always been a part of the VSA forum. After all, VSA is derived from Wyckoff.

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You forgot Shell Divers, One-Eyed Joes, and Opps! You need to know them all to pass the test :)

 

It is funny that people get so pissy over these things. It really makes me laugh. All of these names come from Bob Evans. Evans owned Wyckoff Associates (before it becameWyckoff/SMI) and was keen on teaching people how to trade the Wyckoff Method. In the 1940s, he used to send out a ree-to-reel tape machine along with teaching tapes of the then current markets! Eventually, they had more subscribers to the Course, tape machines became less expensive, and the just sent out the tapes. In any event, Evans was quite an educator. He was also a folksy kind of guy and looked to provide metaphors and analogies -- little stories -- that people could relate to and in that relating, develop a better understanding of Wyckoff principles and how the markets move. That's all. I really don't think he was trying to circumvent or undermine learning the Wyckoff method to understanding the market in any way. He wasn't malicious or trying to steer traders astray. As i see it, his intent was simply to teach and he had much of value to teach.

 

Many of his old tapes from the 1940s through the 1960s are available, some in MP3 format. Listen to one or two of them yourself and draw your own conclusions. I doubt you will view him as a manifestation of the Evil Empire :)

 

Eiger

 

Whether Evans was a Master Trader or not is beside the point. If you want to delve into all that, address it in "rollotape"'s thread, as you seemed so eager to do while he was providing his "Wyckoff analysis". None of this is addressed in Wyckoff's course, much less in Undeclared Secrets. Sticking to Williams' work might prove to be enormously helpful to those who are trying to understand VSA. It would certainly be simpler. Plus nobody would have to buy anything.

 

Hope this is helpful.

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Whether Evans was a Master Trader or not is beside the point. If you want to delve into all that, address it in "rollotape"'s thread, as you seemed so eager to do while he was providing his "Wyckoff analysis". None of this is addressed in Wyckoff's course, much less in Undeclared Secrets. Sticking to Williams' work might prove to be enormously helpful to those who are trying to understand VSA. It would certainly be simpler. Plus nobody would have to buy anything.

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

As much respect as I have for you, unfortunately this is not helpful at all. Eiger's first post was helpful, regardless if this is called a spring, springboard, iron board, or any kind of board, but you managed to dilute this into a back and forth about silly things like terminology and who said what and when.

 

Please just let this thread be without feeling the need to interfere each time. We all know your feelings about Wyckoff and VSA. No need to repeat this over and over and over.

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He makes no mention of "flow," "boxes" - however famous, or Ticks either. I've looked really hard through the course and found no mention of any of these things. Hmmm, how do we understand this? Are you saying that if you think it OK, then it must be Wyckoff? Get off your high horse. And, Wyckoff has always been a part of the VSA forum. After all, VSA is derived from Wyckoff.

 

You've made it clear that you never grasped the importance of the continuity of price flow in Wyckoff's original course. But it is that which is the foundation of his wave metaphor. As for "boxes", they are drawn around trading ranges in order to highlight them. Wyckoff originated the idea of trading ranges and of support and resistance. As for Ticks, what do you think a print on a tape is?

 

And though certain ideas of Wyckoff's may have been incorporated into VSA, it is derived from SMI, not from Wyckoff. That you believe that there is no difference does not mean that there is none.

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This is typical of you Db. Clearly, you are looking for a fight and any reason to derail the VSA thread. We all know this. You need not direct anyone on where they may post and what they should do. You do not own this site. Please stop all of this now.

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This is typical of you Db. Clearly, you are looking for a fight and any reason to derail the VSA thread. We all know this. You need not direct anyone on where they may post and what they should do. You do not own this site. Please stop all of this now.

 

Not looking for a fight at all, just correcting a misstatement. As for derailing the thread, I would be very happy to see the VSA Forum focus on VSA.

 

You are, of course, welcome to delete all of these posts.

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No free course that I know of. Tom Williams's Undeclared Secrets that Drive the Stock Market is the basic text for VSA. The Wyckoff Course is available from Wyckoff/SMI - google and you will find. Units 2 & 3 are the heart of the course, if they still sell it by individual units.

 

Eiger

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Is there a free online course that someone could take to learn VSA or wykoff. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

TC

 

As far as Wyckoff goes, course? Not exactly. Free? Yes. Just check into the Wyckoff Forum.

 

As for VSA, I can't say. I suggest you begin with the Pure VSA and Helpful Hints for Newcomers to VSA threads here.

 

Edit: Sorry, I neglected to mention perhaps the best resource in this forum, the Summary Stickie. Those involved did an exceptional job. It's not exactly short, but it's a hell of a lot shorter than its source.

Edited by DbPhoenix

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Quite amazing, mere mention of Wyckoff used to wind people up in here, they only wanted to talk about pure VSA methodology,

Thank goodness, now it is acknowledged that VSA is all derived from Wyckoff only and now they harp on about Wyckoff.

 

If anybody else besides a VSA user utters the word Wyckoff here, , than ofcourse it is taboo, an attack on VSA and told to migrate to VSA crock or not thread. plain ridiculous:)))

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As a follow up to the premarket Spring posted earlier and to get this thread back on track ....

 

Just because a market dips below support and then rallies, doesn't make it a Spring. On the attached achart at A, the market comes down on wide spread and an increase in volume - not what we are looking for in a Spring. The wide spread, poor close, and increased volume is an indication of supply. Compare the premarket Spring with the behavior at A. In the pre-market, we see a modest dip under support. At A, we see the largest reaction since the rally began. The larger reaction, wide spread, and increased volume to the downside signals a change of behavior and not a wise place to enter longs.

 

Hope this is helpful,

 

Eiger

5aa70eec5c5fd_NoSpring6-19-09.thumb.png.e8e921a80d81ad920ac15ae09618aad7.png

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Hi Elger,

As a day trader, I want to buy this support area at A. Is VSA 'telling' me anything to help me buy at this support?

I see the NoDemand bar around 12:05 to help with selling that down move. Just wondering if there is any help at A.

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Hi Elger,

As a day trader, I want to buy this support area at A. Is VSA 'telling' me anything to help me buy at this support?

I see the NoDemand bar around 12:05 to help with selling that down move. Just wondering if there is any help at A.

 

I am not Eiger, but I see an immediate reversal the bar after A at bar 1, indicating potential strength, a no supply bar two bars after that at bar 2, followed by another no supply bar two bars later at bar 3, followed by a test immmediately after that at bar 4.

 

However I think this was a risky trade as all this action happens just below the broken support and upside potential was limited due the closeness of the day's high. However, the price action indicates that a test of the day's high was likely to happen but taking quick profit would have been wise at the grouping of 4 bars stalling close to the high with weak closes that just couldn't go higher at 5. You have to take what the market gives you.

5aa70eed4427e_NoSpring6-19-09markup.thumb.png.ac9ccabb41025e502a8d95d680102bdc.png

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Thanks for the reply, sevensa ...... I see what you mean. After breaking the support, the most that could reasonably be expected was a move back up to test that support, now resistance. I had seen the NoSupply bar (2), but figured that was a little late to get in.

 

I'm finding VSA a good filter for my study of S/R and average line movement ...... I can see I need more time with it.

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Accepted, let us put all this behind us,

 

Next time instruct Manby to come in and face the music himself.

Don't be naive enough to just blindly believe what he or anybody at TG says, you are dealing with savvy southern England crowd here, so take heed:))))

All of these guys have skeletons in their cupboards, There is no smoke without fire;)

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you are dealing with savvy southern England crowd here, so take heed:))))

All of these guys have skeletons in their cupboards, ;)

 

Sorry, just can't resist---*savvy* southern England, you mean like the fairy twinklers in Glastonbury?

Again, apologies, it's been a tough morning---the phrase, I believe, is "skeletons in the *closet*, unless you Brits have expanded your cupboard space dramatically since I was last there.

 

OK, enough foolishness. I have a serious invitation. I'd like all you VSA experts to please visit the Volume Splitter thread in the coding forum, and check out my latest post (permalink #311).

 

The fourth chart is the one I want you to look at.

 

For a little background, the entire point of the Volume Splitter thread is to see visual proof on your charts of the actions of the big traders. VSA has always said, "if you see big volume, it has to come from big traders." Yup, makes perfect sense, but maybe you could gain some additional information if you had an indicator that visually showed you what they were doing, and how strongly they were doing it. Then again, maybe you couldn't gain additional information---the volume splitter thread is a work in progress, and maybe we're all wet.

 

It's been tough sledding in the Volume Splitter thread, but I think that we have finally done it. Then again, maybe not, which is why I'd really like you folks to check it out.

 

Yeah, yeah, I know, it's a squiggly line, but maybe this one is not a lagging indicator. Just for the record, the indicator says VS_MACD2---however, it doesn't look like a MACD, nor does it behave like one.

 

VSA purists will turn up their royal noses at the idea that a squiggly line could give them information about the big traders, but I urge you to keep an open mind. You know what they say, minds are like parachutes--they only work when open.

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Hello, I am new to this thread and have found it very beneficial thus far. Have only been reading for a week and still have a lot of catching up to do. However Its seems very logical and since then I have been watching the market with this analysis in mind. Here is a chart of what i saw on friday with a question on one of the concepts I have read about. Any comments would be appreciate it.

thanks to all who have contributed to this great thread.

VSA061909.thumb.JPG.698f5c62a499ce70d4d961dc5ef8e778.JPG

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    • By vishnux
      Hey guys , what are the main things you look for to detect if the consolidation area is accumulating or distributing ? 
      1 ) I see springs in top , still markup happens and it becomes accumulation area and vice versa
      2) There is lots of volume absorption in support line and still markdown occurs.
      3) sometimes in market high / low it becomes re-accumulation  / re-distribution
      Is there any clear way to find it ? 
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    • Date: 17th April 2024. Market News – Appetite for risk-taking remains weak. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks, Treasury yields and US Dollar stay firmed. Fed Chair Powell added to the recent sell off. His slightly more hawkish tone further priced out chances for any imminent action and the timing of a cut was pushed out further. He suggested if higher inflation does persist, the Fed will hold rates steady “for as long as needed.” Implied Fed Fund: There remains no real chance for a move on May 1 and at their intraday highs the June implied funds rate future showed only 5 bps, while July reflected only 10 bps. And a full 25 bps was not priced in until November, with 38 bps in cuts seen for 2024. US & EU Economies Diverging: Lagarde says ECB is moving toward rate cuts – if there are no major shocks. UK March CPI inflation falls less than expected. Output price inflation has started to nudge higher, despite another decline in input prices. Together with yesterday’s higher than expected wage numbers, the data will add to the arguments of the hawks at the BoE, which remain very reluctant to contemplate rate cuts. Canada CPI rose 0.6% in March, double the 0.3% February increase BUT core eased. The doors are still open for a possible cut at the next BoC meeting on June 5. IMF revised up its global growth forecast for 2024 with inflation easing, in its new World Economic Outlook. This is consistent with a global soft landing, according to the report. Financial Markets Performance:   USDJPY also inched up to 154.67 on expectations the BoJ will remain accommodative and as the market challenges a perceived 155 red line for MoF intervention. USOIL prices slipped -0.15% to $84.20 per barrel. Gold rose 0.24% to $2389.11 per ounce, a new record closing high as geopolitical risks overshadowed the impacts of rising rates and the stronger dollar. Market Trends:   Wall Street waffled either side of unchanged on the day amid dimming rate cut potential, rising yields, and earnings. The major indexes closed mixed with the Dow up 0.17%, while the S&P500 and NASDAQ lost -0.21% and -0.12%, respectively. Asian stock markets mostly corrected again, with Japanese bourses underperforming and the Nikkei down -1.3%. Mainland China bourses were a notable exception and the CSI 300 rallied 1.4%, but the MSCI Asia Pacific index came close to erasing the gains for this year. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.vvvvvvv
    • Date: 16th April 2024. Market News – Stocks and currencies sell off; USD up. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks and currencies sell off, while the US Dollar picks up haven flows. Treasuries yields spiked again to fresh 2024 peaks before paring losses into the close, post, the stronger than expected retail sales eliciting a broad sell off in the markets. Rates surged as the data pushed rate cut bets further into the future with July now less than a 50-50 chance. Wall Street finished with steep declines led by tech. Stocks opened in the green on a relief trade after Israel repulsed the well advertised attack from Iran on Sunday. But equities turned sharply lower and extended last week’s declines amid the rise in yields. Investor concerns were intensified as Israel threatened retaliation. There’s growing anxiety over earnings even after a big beat from Goldman Sachs. UK labor market data was mixed, as the ILO unemployment rate unexpectedly lifted, while wage growth came in higher than anticipated – The data suggests that the labor market is catching up with the recession. Mixed messages then for the BoE. China grew by 5.3% in Q1 however the numbers are causing a lot of doubts over sustainability of this growth. The bounce came in the first 2 months of the year. In March, growth in retail sales slumped and industrial output decelerated below forecasts, suggesting challenges on the horizon. Today: Germany ZEW, US housing starts & industrial production, Fed Vice Chair Philip Jefferson speech, BOE Bailey speech & IMF outlook. Earnings releases: Morgan Stanley and Bank of America. Financial Markets Performance:   The US Dollar rallied to 106.19 after testing 106.25, gaining against JPY and rising to 154.23, despite intervention risk. Yen traders started to see the 160 mark as the next Resistance level. Gold surged 1.76% to $2386 per ounce amid geopolitical risks and Chinese buying, even as the USD firmed and yields climbed. USOIL is flat at $85 per barrel. Market Trends:   Breaks of key technical levels exacerbated the sell off. Tech was the big loser with the NASDAQ plunging -1.79% to 15,885 while the S&P500 dropped -1.20% to 5061, with the Dow sliding -0.65% to 37,735. The S&P had the biggest 2-day sell off since March 2023. Nikkei and ASX lost -1.9% and -1.8% respectively, and the Hang Seng is down -2.1%. European bourses are down more than -1% and US futures are also in the red. CTA selling tsunami: “Just a few points lower CTAs will for the first time this year start selling in size, to add insult to injury, we are breaking major trend-lines in equities and the gamma stabilizer is totally gone.” Short term CTA threshold levels are kicking in big time according to GS. Medium term is 4873 (most important) while the long term level is at 4605. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 15th April 2024. Market News – Negative Reversion; Safe Havens Rally. Trading Leveraged Products is risky Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Markets weigh risk of retaliation cycle in Middle East. Initially the retaliatory strike from Iran on Israel fostered a haven bid, into bonds, gold and other haven assets, as it threatens a wider regional conflict. However, this morning, Oil and Asian equity markets were muted as traders shrugged off fears of a war escalation in the Middle East. Iran said “the matter can be deemed concluded”, and President Joe Biden has called on Israel to exercise restraint following Iran’s drone and missile strike, as part of Washington’s efforts to ease tensions in the Middle East and minimize the likelihood of a widespread regional conflict. New US and UK sanctions banned deliveries of Russian supplies, i.e. key industrial metals, produced after midnight on Friday. Aluminum jumped 9.4%, nickel rose 8.8%, suggesting brokers are bracing for major supply chain disruption. Financial Markets Performance:   The USDIndex fell back from highs over 106 to currently 105.70. The Yen dip against USD to 153.85. USOIL settled lower at 84.50 per barrel and Gold is trading below session highs at currently $2357.92 per ounce. Copper, more liquid and driven by the global economy over recent weeks, was more subdued this morning. Currently at $4.3180. Market Trends:   Asian stock markets traded mixed, but European and US futures are slightly higher after a tough session on Friday and yields have picked up. Mainland China bourses outperformed overnight, after Beijing offered renewed regulatory support. The PBOC meanwhile left the 1-year MLF rate unchanged, while once again draining funds from the system. Nikkei slipped 1% to 39,114.19. On Friday, NASDAQ slumped -1.62% to 16,175, unwinding most of Thursday’s 1.68% jump to a new all-time high at 16,442. The S&P500 fell -1.46% and the Dow dropped 1.24%. Declines were broadbased with all 11 sectors of the S&P finishing in the red. JPMorgan Chase sank 6.5% despite reporting stronger profit in Q1. The nation’s largest bank gave a forecast for a key source of income this year that fell below Wall Street’s estimate, calling for only modest growth. Apple shipments drop by 10% in Q1. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
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