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And from the amibroker user group:

-----------------------------------------

Hello All,

 

I have just completed a few days of testing several modeling/backtesting

programs. I thought, perhaps, the other members of the list might find the

results useful; as I am new here, hopefully this can serve as my first

productive contribution.

 

I do a lot of testing & modeling on (a) daily bars (looking to execute intraday

trades) and (b) tick data (for short-term trades). In the case of the first, I

need to create signals on a daily series but execute orders against a 1M

intraday series. So, in order to test an idea over five years of data, I have to

do it over 5Y of 1M data. This gets into performance issues when you start

wanting to run a test on several issues and want to run multiple revisions of

the test. As for testing on tick data, I am sure you are familiar (at least

conceptually) with the performance issues there.

 

I took a look at NinjaTrader, TradeStation, OpenQuant & AmiBroker. I created an

ASCII file of 5Y of EURUSD, USDJPY, GBPUSD, AUDUSD & USDCAD 1M data. In each

program, I ran a simple EMA crossover test (10/50). It was an obnoxious test,

resulting in +300,000 trades, but it was easy to implement and was a good stress

test. What I wanted to do was see if I could get: a) reliable (e.g.

reproducible) results from a single-security test and b) a test of the five FX

pairs as a portfolio (again, in a reliable/reproducible manner).

 

1. Ninja: I use Ninja daily to scalp with and execute some short-term system

code. I had dim hopes for the backtesting since I am familiar with the program -

Ninja really is an execution platform first and an analytical platform second.

The results were more or less what I expected: I could get it to test one issue

with reproducible results at an okay speed (about 3:00M) but it would start to

go into fits when I ran it against all five at once. The results of the five

issue test would vary from instance to instance - it would usually show the

results for the first 3 issues correctly, but on the last 2 it would suffer some

kind of memory issue and give me numbers that were totally off. In one pass, it

even managed to corrupt itself and I had to reload all the data.

 

2. TradeStation: I have a lot of time invested in TradeStation and I was already

familar with it's problems - mainly, that over a large test set, TS will return

different test results. I have talked with TS support and posted on the message

board about this, but I never got anyone interested in what I found to be a

critical issue. The results of this test were as expected: I could not get two

results to match. Any time I would refresh data from the TS data servers and run

the test again, I would get a different result. Sometimes it was as much as test

1 being -$190K and test 2 being +$74K. I do not understand how anyone can use

this tool for successful modeling if they are testing over a large dataset;

just making up a number would have been as useful. I even exported and imported

the data to ensure that it wasn't an issue with the TS data servers. Same

inconsistency. I couldn't test all five pairs together since TS does not do

portfolio backtesting. As

for time of a single test, it is hard to tell with TS as to what, exactly, it

is waiting for/trying to do at any given moment, but I would say it would

usually take about 2/4M per test (although, I have no idea what it was doing in

that 2/4M since the results it returned seemed random at times).

 

3. OpenQuant: This platform looked interesting. I set it up, imported the data

and ran a test. After 20M I noticed that the first EURUSD 1M test was at 10%. I

closed it down and uninstalled it. The performance was just not going to work

for me.

 

4. AmiBroker: You can likely guess the results as I am here as a new member. AB

was able to test EURUSD in about 30 seconds and was able to do the portfolio of

all 5 pairs in about 2M. No matter how many times I ran the test, the numbers it

would return were the same. This fact is pretty crucial to my work. I understand

that data will have errors in it, but I at least need my modeling software to

consistently return results (which AB did). I even created new databases and

populated them with the same data - all test results returned were the same.

 

As you all know, AB was, by far, the cheapest option out of all of the above.

-----------------------------------------------------------

So, nothing to add, just stick to your software and leave the edge to me.

 

Regards

 

Traders37

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To the O.P....

You don't want to run a live auto strategy on a buggy platform (ninja) or one with bad data (TS).

 

Tradestation has bad data?

 

(I've been very happy with data quality and success of auto-strategies in Tradestation)

 

Thanks.

 

Uli

Edited by Uli Schmuli
Error in post

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general reading material
800Mb memory perhaps is not enough for NT. you measured computation speed of MC to the windows scratch disk speed really..

 

Tams, could you please tell - you mentioned TT is now supported - can I connect MC to the Guardian (I have XTrader) or do I need connection to FIX server (my broker has no FIX)?

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800Mb memory perhaps is not enough for NT. you measured computation speed of MC to the windows scratch disk speed really..

 

Tams, could you please tell - you mentioned TT is now supported - can I connect MC to the Guardian (I have XTrader) or do I need connection to FIX server (my broker has no FIX)?

 

 

you better post the question at the TSSupport forum,

they are the authority.

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Tradestation has bad data?

 

(I've been very happy with data quality and success of auto-strategies in Tradestation)

 

Thanks.

 

Uli

 

Hi Uli:

In backtesting with TradeStation, I have gotten vastly different results before and after deleting my cache. That was running a test on a stock symbol. As the veteran TS user "Goose" says: "The data is always suspect."

 

I don't know if other data sources are more reliable. Is there a thread on "most reliable data providers" for the different types of securities (stocks, futures, forex, options)? Reliable data is the foundation for everything else.

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I've looked at most packages over the last few years - did an in depth review 2 1/2 years ago for my employer at the time.

 

NeoTicker (the one I got into most) turned out to be a total dog - slow and cumbersome.

AB keeps crashing one me randomly.

Most software can't backtest scans which given that my first trading system was a scanning system I've pretty much given up on other peoples stuff and I'm writing my own stuff in Excel, VBA, VB6, C++ and possibly Smalltalk MT, and no doubt if I get statisically technical I'll use R and MatLab. (I'd probably use Ninja or OpenQuant as Bots if need be). I also use QCollector to download data almost-realtime.

 

At least writing the stuff myself I'm not constrained to other peoples ideas, and it does force me to understand my trading systems.

 

Anyone else using Excel as their main system?

 

If so does any one have a great way of pulling in history into Excel / code?

 

 

--DM

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I've looked at most packages over the last few years - did an in depth review 2 1/2 years ago for my employer at the time.

 

NeoTicker (the one I got into most) turned out to be a total dog - slow and cumbersome.

AB keeps crashing one me randomly.

Most software can't backtest scans which given that my first trading system was a scanning system I've pretty much given up on other peoples stuff and I'm writing my own stuff in Excel, VBA, VB6, C++ and possibly Smalltalk MT, and no doubt if I get statisically technical I'll use R and MatLab. (I'd probably use Ninja or OpenQuant as Bots if need be). I also use QCollector to download data almost-realtime.

 

At least writing the stuff myself I'm not constrained to other peoples ideas, and it does force me to understand my trading systems.

 

Anyone else using Excel as their main system?

 

If so does any one have a great way of pulling in history into Excel / code?

 

 

--DM

 

 

 

What software you use depends, to a large degree, is dictated by what instrument you trade and the frequencies of your trades...

 

Excel has its place in the game... their charting is actually quite good. It will be a surprise to most people that their charting is very capable and very sophisticated.

 

 

There is a 3rd party add-on that can easily pull EOD data into Excel... the name escapes me at the moment. I will post it if my Alzheimer improves.

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Dangermouse.

we built a quite intensive excel portfolio backtester. The problem was it takes a long time to run through (45minutes) but the advantage is that you can actually see behind the scenes and also being excel its completely flexible for the user.

The big disadvantage we found was in the data downloading every day became a pain.

Also when building a portfolio testing system you need to ensure the data is all matched up accurately.

We spent a lot of time getting that data as accurate as possible - using futures it was a pain due to the rolling.

What we found now that works far easier is to use the systems that handle data better - eg; esignal, multicharts etc. And run through the signals/alerts . then we get those trades into excel - from there we use excel to really analyse the trades.

Disclaimer - we are not fully automated - while i would like to be, we rather use the indicators to show us possible trades, and we test those for how often they work, what happens when they do and dont work, and then we apply context as a discretionary input.

I am finding Multicharts works pretty well for this - while it does have its issues - its very flexible and it seems the guys there are actively working to be able to link it to excel using more of a cut and paste basis. This would make using their scans great without needing a lot of programming.

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Hey...

 

When you say we - you work for a fund?

 

"problem...45 minutes" - I do most of my spreadsheet work in VBA or if that's not fast enough VB6 (compiled VBA) or if that's not fast enough C++, for that very reason.

 

Interesting about MultiCharts getting better at Excel linkage. Can it output trades and stops, indicator values at setup time etc for trade system analysis later on?

 

Also can MultiCharts backtest a scanning trading strategy? E.g. trade the best performer from a basket?

 

I'm curious about how people link to Excel. I can use YLoader (yloader.com) to download EOD quotes onto disk, as CSV. I have a COM DLL to load timeseries from disk into arrays in VBA (and into Excel if needed), which if there was demand I'm pondering making a version available as freeware - it does all the memory management so a large timeseries database on disk can be accessed easily without blowing up Excel's 1GB limit.

 

Do you (or does anyone) use intraday bars in Excel?

 

I'm thinking of Sierra charts (due to market profile functionality) - any comments anyone?

 

 

 

-- DM

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...it does all the memory management so a large timeseries database on disk can be accessed easily without blowing up Excel's 1GB limit.

...

-- DM

 

 

the newer Excel does not have the limit.

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"you can use EasyLanguage (PRINT) to export/extract anything/anytime to a csv file." - useful to know. I was analysising someone else's trade results and they said they couldn't get out the initial stop or the ATR - so I was restricted in the analysis.

 

the newer Excel does not have the limit - there's still the 2GB limit that 32-bit windows enforces (unless you play with the registry). My intraday database is much bigger than 2GB so having the memory management done for me by the DLL makes it much easier to use...

 

Is there any generic ways to read CSVs - other than the cumbersome import dialog - for let's say I have 100 results and want to summarise them in XL?

 

Cheers

 

-- DM

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...Is there any generic ways to read CSVs - other than the cumbersome import dialog - for let's say I have 100 results and want to summarise them in XL?

 

Cheers

 

-- DM

 

 

there is a 3rd party add-on that can do it easily... but I don't recall the name right now.

 

 

you can check this code to see if it helps:

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f46/dom-excel-ib-5900.html

10440d1241448157-dom-excel-ib-dom2.gif

89

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Hi DM -

"we" is myself, and a person i employed to make the coding for excel more efficient.

I know far more about trading than coding.

you asked....

Also can MultiCharts backtest a scanning trading strategy? E.g. trade the best performer from a basket?

Not that i can gather. Thats one of the reasons we used excel. it allowed us to rank instruments for our system/idea testing.

It sounds like you know a fair bit of programming, i would suggest trialling MC - there is a 30 day free trial. There is plenty of info about the language it uses on the web - there are some fantastic people on this and others forum that can help. MC is very flexible and a bit of a pain to learn at the start, but due to this flexibility it seems to be improving all the time.

Given what you have talked about I think you will find it a good system to tie in with your excel. Let it do all the data management, and excel do the sorting.

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I am on the TS platform and the back testing for the emini is deplorable. You can test at 100% and lose your shirt live. In addition, over night a great strategy will go from 1200.00 profit to 550.00 for two days testing on the weekend with no new data. Go figure.

Just my opinion

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I am on the TS platform and the back testing for the emini is deplorable. You can test at 100% and lose your shirt live. In addition, over night a great strategy will go from 1200.00 profit to 550.00 for two days testing on the weekend with no new data. Go figure.

Just my opinion

 

 

there is a method to everything...

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I am on the TS platform and the back testing for the emini is deplorable. You can test at 100% and lose your shirt live. In addition, over night a great strategy will go from 1200.00 profit to 550.00 for two days testing on the weekend with no new data. Go figure.

Just my opinion

 

More detail would be helpful if you are interested in learning how to make TS work for you, instead of just complaining about it. Your comment contains no information useful for troubleshooting your issues.

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    • Date: 17th April 2024. Market News – Appetite for risk-taking remains weak. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks, Treasury yields and US Dollar stay firmed. Fed Chair Powell added to the recent sell off. His slightly more hawkish tone further priced out chances for any imminent action and the timing of a cut was pushed out further. He suggested if higher inflation does persist, the Fed will hold rates steady “for as long as needed.” Implied Fed Fund: There remains no real chance for a move on May 1 and at their intraday highs the June implied funds rate future showed only 5 bps, while July reflected only 10 bps. And a full 25 bps was not priced in until November, with 38 bps in cuts seen for 2024. US & EU Economies Diverging: Lagarde says ECB is moving toward rate cuts – if there are no major shocks. UK March CPI inflation falls less than expected. Output price inflation has started to nudge higher, despite another decline in input prices. Together with yesterday’s higher than expected wage numbers, the data will add to the arguments of the hawks at the BoE, which remain very reluctant to contemplate rate cuts. Canada CPI rose 0.6% in March, double the 0.3% February increase BUT core eased. The doors are still open for a possible cut at the next BoC meeting on June 5. IMF revised up its global growth forecast for 2024 with inflation easing, in its new World Economic Outlook. This is consistent with a global soft landing, according to the report. Financial Markets Performance:   USDJPY also inched up to 154.67 on expectations the BoJ will remain accommodative and as the market challenges a perceived 155 red line for MoF intervention. USOIL prices slipped -0.15% to $84.20 per barrel. Gold rose 0.24% to $2389.11 per ounce, a new record closing high as geopolitical risks overshadowed the impacts of rising rates and the stronger dollar. Market Trends:   Wall Street waffled either side of unchanged on the day amid dimming rate cut potential, rising yields, and earnings. The major indexes closed mixed with the Dow up 0.17%, while the S&P500 and NASDAQ lost -0.21% and -0.12%, respectively. Asian stock markets mostly corrected again, with Japanese bourses underperforming and the Nikkei down -1.3%. Mainland China bourses were a notable exception and the CSI 300 rallied 1.4%, but the MSCI Asia Pacific index came close to erasing the gains for this year. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.vvvvvvv
    • Date: 16th April 2024. Market News – Stocks and currencies sell off; USD up. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks and currencies sell off, while the US Dollar picks up haven flows. Treasuries yields spiked again to fresh 2024 peaks before paring losses into the close, post, the stronger than expected retail sales eliciting a broad sell off in the markets. Rates surged as the data pushed rate cut bets further into the future with July now less than a 50-50 chance. Wall Street finished with steep declines led by tech. Stocks opened in the green on a relief trade after Israel repulsed the well advertised attack from Iran on Sunday. But equities turned sharply lower and extended last week’s declines amid the rise in yields. Investor concerns were intensified as Israel threatened retaliation. There’s growing anxiety over earnings even after a big beat from Goldman Sachs. UK labor market data was mixed, as the ILO unemployment rate unexpectedly lifted, while wage growth came in higher than anticipated – The data suggests that the labor market is catching up with the recession. Mixed messages then for the BoE. China grew by 5.3% in Q1 however the numbers are causing a lot of doubts over sustainability of this growth. The bounce came in the first 2 months of the year. In March, growth in retail sales slumped and industrial output decelerated below forecasts, suggesting challenges on the horizon. Today: Germany ZEW, US housing starts & industrial production, Fed Vice Chair Philip Jefferson speech, BOE Bailey speech & IMF outlook. Earnings releases: Morgan Stanley and Bank of America. Financial Markets Performance:   The US Dollar rallied to 106.19 after testing 106.25, gaining against JPY and rising to 154.23, despite intervention risk. Yen traders started to see the 160 mark as the next Resistance level. Gold surged 1.76% to $2386 per ounce amid geopolitical risks and Chinese buying, even as the USD firmed and yields climbed. USOIL is flat at $85 per barrel. Market Trends:   Breaks of key technical levels exacerbated the sell off. Tech was the big loser with the NASDAQ plunging -1.79% to 15,885 while the S&P500 dropped -1.20% to 5061, with the Dow sliding -0.65% to 37,735. The S&P had the biggest 2-day sell off since March 2023. Nikkei and ASX lost -1.9% and -1.8% respectively, and the Hang Seng is down -2.1%. European bourses are down more than -1% and US futures are also in the red. CTA selling tsunami: “Just a few points lower CTAs will for the first time this year start selling in size, to add insult to injury, we are breaking major trend-lines in equities and the gamma stabilizer is totally gone.” Short term CTA threshold levels are kicking in big time according to GS. Medium term is 4873 (most important) while the long term level is at 4605. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 15th April 2024. Market News – Negative Reversion; Safe Havens Rally. Trading Leveraged Products is risky Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Markets weigh risk of retaliation cycle in Middle East. Initially the retaliatory strike from Iran on Israel fostered a haven bid, into bonds, gold and other haven assets, as it threatens a wider regional conflict. However, this morning, Oil and Asian equity markets were muted as traders shrugged off fears of a war escalation in the Middle East. Iran said “the matter can be deemed concluded”, and President Joe Biden has called on Israel to exercise restraint following Iran’s drone and missile strike, as part of Washington’s efforts to ease tensions in the Middle East and minimize the likelihood of a widespread regional conflict. New US and UK sanctions banned deliveries of Russian supplies, i.e. key industrial metals, produced after midnight on Friday. Aluminum jumped 9.4%, nickel rose 8.8%, suggesting brokers are bracing for major supply chain disruption. Financial Markets Performance:   The USDIndex fell back from highs over 106 to currently 105.70. The Yen dip against USD to 153.85. USOIL settled lower at 84.50 per barrel and Gold is trading below session highs at currently $2357.92 per ounce. Copper, more liquid and driven by the global economy over recent weeks, was more subdued this morning. Currently at $4.3180. Market Trends:   Asian stock markets traded mixed, but European and US futures are slightly higher after a tough session on Friday and yields have picked up. Mainland China bourses outperformed overnight, after Beijing offered renewed regulatory support. The PBOC meanwhile left the 1-year MLF rate unchanged, while once again draining funds from the system. Nikkei slipped 1% to 39,114.19. On Friday, NASDAQ slumped -1.62% to 16,175, unwinding most of Thursday’s 1.68% jump to a new all-time high at 16,442. The S&P500 fell -1.46% and the Dow dropped 1.24%. Declines were broadbased with all 11 sectors of the S&P finishing in the red. JPMorgan Chase sank 6.5% despite reporting stronger profit in Q1. The nation’s largest bank gave a forecast for a key source of income this year that fell below Wall Street’s estimate, calling for only modest growth. Apple shipments drop by 10% in Q1. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
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