Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Recommended Posts

There really wasn't much on exact entry of hinges throughout this thread, nor much about it on your blog. I could have missed them.

 

 

May have been the chatroom. It's been a while.

 

The one thing that I'm confused on & you were going through this with Atto is:

 

1) how do you know which direction the trade is going? Or do you not, & is that why you said preferably both. It seems in one of the posts that you elluded to clues of which direction a chart he pulled up would go. Also, Atto mentioned hinges "tend" to be continuations.

 

You don't. Or at least I never assumed anything. Whether his comment was anecdotal or he really tested it, I don't know. Seems reasonable, but the market's always full of surprises.

 

 

In any case, if you plan for both, you needn't care. What's most important is not to be surprised and to plan ahead for all contingencies. Then emotions are less likely to screw you up.

 

 

It's important, though, to pair your entry stop with its cover stop. Otherwise, the program may think your cover stop is actually an entry stop and that can really ruin your day. If your program doesn't let you pair a cover stop with an entry stop so that they're linked at the time you transmit the order, get another program.

 

2) Are you referring to the hinge, or the WTF as for what only happens in the 1 minute or less interval?

 

My interest in hinges is to apply them to daily charts. The NQ example was just something I found after looking & looking at charts. It turned out nicely.

 

 

The WTF. The hinge can occur in any interval.

 

 

And yes, it did.:)

 

 

Db

 

Edit: These questions of yours rattled something loose and it eventually rose to the top. If you're really interested, there's a lengthy analysis of a hinge beginning here, though you may already have stumbled across it. This guy was sharp, but so were the others who participated. This was a particular kind of hinge and easier than usual to anticipate the outcome, but you never know. The observant trader can pick up all sorts of signals.

 

It is long. Almost 30 posts. But it's thorough. Yep, it's thorough.

 

Db

Edited by DbPhoenix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why?

 

Because by day-trading I eliminate overnight risk exposure and I will find more trading opportunities. (I will also sleep much better)

 

Also the leverage will allow me to grow my account once I become consistent.

 

Again, why?

 

I am considering tradingthe NQ futures because it has good liquidity, volume and volatility but I could always trade other index futures.

 

The TickQ indicator seems like a logical approach that appeals to me.

 

Also your boxes seem to work well in this market in 2008 :)

 

 

Not the best choice for a bread-and-butter setup. The Hinge is the cookie in the lunch box. You won't see it that often. Go for the sandwich.

 

Ok thanks for the advice, I will read on more setups, would you care to point me in the right direction? One setup that Ive been thinking about is the re-test of S/R on lower volume with a TickQ divergence, what do you think of this?

 

Maybe. Whether the trade works or not will depend in large part on how it's managed

 

I understand, but until I have an entry point theres nothing to manage...

 

 

 

Watching price move is always a good way to start. As for developing your edge, don't be concerned about that at the beginning. By determining so early what you're going to trade, when you're going to trade, what you're going to look for, etc., you've already cut yourself off from a number of options, which is why I asked my first two questions. Unless you have really good reasons for wanting to be a daytrader and trade the NQs, I suggest you rethink all of that. Trading futures intraday may seem like where all the action is, but it's also where a lot of people get chewed up.

 

Db

 

I am totally open to any form of trading and would be very interested in hearing your suggestions on wich market would be the most appropriate for my objectives, which are:

 

1- To make a decent living out of this, and save money for future projects.

2- To be in control of my time and spent most of my day doing the things I enjoy, instead of working.

 

I have seen you mentioned you trade for 90 minutes a day, this is obviously very appealing but I imagine getting to the 90 min trading-day has been hard work.

 

Is this a reasonable aspiration? (the 90 minute trading day) or is the reality of succesful day-trading very different from my expectations?

 

Thanks once again for your interest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know what DB considers the sandwich but in my trading I have found the [shakeout*]/upthrust to be high probability and regularly occurring. I only see hinges in retrospect.

 

[*I'll assume this is what was meant. (Db)]

Edited by DbPhoenix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Because by day-trading I eliminate overnight risk exposure and I will find more trading opportunities. (I will also sleep much better)

 

Also the leverage will allow me to grow my account once I become consistent.

 

I don't want to be directive :). It's your life. But I do want to suggest alternatives. Trading EOD, for example has certain advantages, not the least of which is the ability to pyramid, if you're trending. And the sleeping issue isn't the problem it often is with stocks, though others may disagree.

 

I will read on more setups, would you care to point me in the right direction? One setup that Ive been thinking about is the re-test of S/R on lower volume with a TickQ divergence, what do you think of this?

 

Instruments are always in a state of trend or no-trend, or trading range. Each of these has its pluses and its minuses in terms of trading opportunities. Some learn how to do both. Some are better at one or the other. If you find that you're particularly good at playing off support or resistance, then look for trading ranges and relax and do something else when there aren't any. Ditto with trading the trend. If you haven't looked at the Trend thread, that may give you something to chew on.

 

I am totally open to any form of trading and would be very interested in hearing your suggestions on wich market would be the most appropriate for my objectives, which are:

 

1- To make a decent living out of this, and save money for future projects.

2- To be in control of my time and spent most of my day doing the things I enjoy, instead of working.

 

I have seen you mentioned you trade for 90 minutes a day, this is obviously very appealing but I imagine getting to the 90 min trading-day has been hard work.

 

Is this a reasonable aspiration? (the 90 minute trading day) or is the reality of succesful day-trading very different from my expectations?

 

Thanks once again for your interest.

 

The reality of daytrading is very different from everybody's expectations. However, few people prepare for it. If you understand that the preparation can take a great deal of time, you may find success before you become discouraged. But even if you don't find success, at least you won't be broke. Understand also that you must have or acquire certain personal attributes, such as patience, tolerance, calm. These may come with a thoroughly-tested strategy, but it helps if you possess these qualities to start with.

 

Db

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I only see hinges in retrospect.

 

As soon as you have a lower high and a higher low, you have the beginnings of a possible hinge.

 

Db

Edited by DbPhoenix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DB in regards to hinges your response was this.

 

Not the best choice for a bread-and-butter setup. The Hinge is the cookie in the lunch box. You won't see it that often. Go for the sandwich.

 

Can you give us a pointer on what the bread-and-butter Wyckoff setups are?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reality of daytrading is very different from everybody's expectations. However, few people prepare for it. If you understand that the preparation can take a great deal of time, you may find success before you become discouraged. But even if you don't find success, at least you won't be broke. Understand also that you must have or acquire certain personal attributes, such as patience, tolerance, calm. These may come with a thoroughly-tested strategy, but it helps if you possess these qualities to start with.

 

Db

 

One question about your method of trading. without getting into specifics;

 

Do you still trade the first 90 minutes from the opening of the NQ futures?

How many trade setups do you normally find in a day?

Is it feassible for a newbie to try and trade in this period?

 

thanks a lot again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can not see your charts ?

 

In the Wyckoff's course there are sections where he moves between the 1 and 3 reversal charts taking note if there are any differences in column widths.

 

Now you have a formation on both the

1 point and the 3 point figure charts which looks like this:

IE: THE SAME !

 

( there is a good hint )

 

In general you look for the areas of congestion.

You derive upside counts from support ( the Lowest row even if it has more empty spaces )

You derive downside counts from Resistance ( the highest row even if it has more empty spaces )

 

You can also derive counts from the Line ( row ) with the most filled boxes.

 

You should scale a chart with the 1 box reversal and then consolidate that chart with the 3 reversal ( then x 3 makes sense because you are consolidating the horizontal and thereby consolidating the buying and selling waves )

 

If you start with the 3 reversal you will often have a BOX size to small.

The three box reversal is not doing it's job of consolidating the waves on the one box chart.it will tend to just reproduce them.

 

Again;

Now you have a formation on both the

1 point and the 3 point figure charts which looks like this:

IE: THE SAME !

 

 

Once you have your counts. You must place them in context of the other congestion zones.

 

Counts that are not fulfilled tell you just as much as having the count as a target.

 

Counts look forward to what might happen

But they look back and qualify what did happen.

 

We judge stocks just as much by what they do as what they DO NOT DO

 

Counts that do not get fulfilled or are quickly negated are telling you something !

 

A Study - CAUSE and EFFECT - THE COUNT

 

Motorway

Edited by motorway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you have a tested and profitable trading plan for all of this?

 

Db

 

I am curently working on building a trading system based on Wyckoff, I mainily trade trending markets with a proven system (at least proven by my standards) and applying Wyckoff principles about volume and price movement has helped me a lot, but it has always intrigued me how to make money in ranges and during the transicion from a range to a trend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can you give us a pointer on what the bread-and-butter Wyckoff setups are?

 

Re-read the course. And read Section 7 as often and as many times as it takes.

 

Db

Edited by DbPhoenix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One question about your method of trading. without getting into specifics;

 

Do you still trade the first 90 minutes from the opening of the NQ futures?

 

I bought a house and large lot last fall, both of which required/require/will require extensive renovation. Daytrading dropped to the bottom of my list of priorities. So I've rediscovered the pleasures of EOD trading. No idea what I'll do when I have more time.

 

How many trade setups do you normally find in a day?

 

Make that "found".

 

Depends on whether the day is trending or range-bound. If trending, generally one. If range-bound, maybe two. Often, none.

 

Is it feassible for a newbie to try and trade in this period?

 

I'm tempted to say no, but who am I to make those decisions. Whether or not a trader is going to be successful during this period depends as much on the kind of person he is as the strategy and tactics he employs. If you spend sufficient time in front of your screen, you'll quickly see when the market begins treading water. That's most often when amateur traders begin looking for trades that aren't there.

 

thanks a lot again.

 

You're welcome.

 

Db

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am curently working on building a trading system based on Wyckoff, I mainily trade trending markets with a proven system (at least proven by my standards) and applying Wyckoff principles about volume and price movement has helped me a lot, but it has always intrigued me how to make money in ranges and during the transicion from a range to a trend.

 

I don't want to be offensive, but if you have a proven system, I'm not sure why you asked the questions you asked in your last two posts. You should know on the basis of your testing where the best entries and stop placements are. If you don't, the system isn't proven. If it is proven, the answers are self-evident.

 

But let's say your system is proven at some level and you want to make it better, which entails a whole new course of proof. Where you intend to buy and sell is in concert with W's approach. And as to your initial stop, yes. But how you trail your stop depends only partly on what the approach would suggest. Much more than that are how familiar you are with the instrument and how its traders behave, what it's most likely to do, how it moves, whether it's calm or nervous. Your own risk tolerance and how you've dealt with your fear are also important components. The risk-averse and fearful tend to have stops that are far too tight. They can't give price room to breathe. So there is no right answer as to whether to move the stop up or not.

 

Db

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's got to be the pot calling the kettle black. ;) ... I was wondering if you'd slipped into another dimension. Welcome back DbPhoenix.

 

Welcome back, indeed! The quality of your posts played no small part in making TL a place where I chose to visit and contribute rather than just another search engine result from a long forgotten google search for who knows what I was looking for that day. I haven't visited TL in a while, and today would have been no different had the words "Hinges" and "DbPhoenix" not caught my eye in a TL email I was about to delete.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Welcome back, indeed! The quality of your posts played no small part in making TL a place where I chose to visit and contribute rather than just another search engine result from a long forgotten google search for who knows what I was looking for that day. I haven't visited TL in a while, and today would have been no different had the words "Hinges" and "DbPhoenix" not caught my eye in a TL email I was about to delete.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

Same here. I don't plan on being around that much. How much more is there to say (witness your own thread)? But the Forum was getting pretty ragged, esp with the sales pitches, so the sheriff came back to Dodge. I've also deleted a lot of bad links and expired posts, so going through the information should be a bit easier.

 

I hope people still visit your thread. It's the only one I know of that wasn't all hindsight crap (though there is one thread on the ES that appears to be run in real time, like a chatroom, which appears to be no longer here).

 

Db

Edited by DbPhoenix
Link added

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Note: Posts from this one through #184 ( 5/30/12) have been moved from the Trading in Foresight thread to this thread.

 

Where We Are

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=28773&stc=1&d=1335650001

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=28774&stc=1&d=1335650001

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=28775&stc=1&d=1335650001

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=28776&stc=1&d=1335650001

Image1.jpg.3b6ce8fde6a061b42f20bda4d5d150a2.jpg

Image2.jpg.b9528c1f1d3781f5bde9edf3db8f04cf.jpg

Image3.jpg.44d57f0aa4a25ddefeb88bf22aba8ecf.jpg

Image4.jpg.dfd1a8b3bf6fa5f11ad950fffe86fe9a.jpg

Edited by DbPhoenix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I

attachment.php?attachmentid=28771&stc=1&d=1335631737

 

Hello Db,

 

In this chart you have identified 3 "cajas famosas".

 

Which of these levels would you identify as S/R for the next trading day?

 

Presumably you don't take the top/bottom and midpoint of each range as S/R as there would be way to many lines on the chart right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I

 

Hello Db,

 

In this chart you have identified 3 "cajas famosas".

 

Which of these levels would you identify as S/R for the next trading day?

 

Presumably you don't take the top/bottom and midpoint of each range as S/R as there would be way to many lines on the chart right?

I moved your post here since my post should have been here in the first place, as I explained above.

 

As for your question, the point of this thread is to trade "in foresight", i.e., use this display to create a trading plan for the following session. Since your question has been answered many times in this thread with many examples, I'm afraid you're just going to have to read it.

 

Sorry :(

 

Once you have your plan together, however, if you have a question that hasn't been asked already, feel free to post it.

 

Db

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I moved your post here since my post should have been here in the first place, as I explained above.

 

As for your question, the point of this thread is to trade "in foresight", i.e., use this display to create a trading plan for the following session. Since your question has been answered many times in this thread with many examples, I'm afraid you're just going to have to read it.

 

Sorry :(

 

Once you have your plan together, however, if you have a question that hasn't been asked already, feel free to post it.

 

Db

 

I have read this thread entirely and I believe your answer to this has been. " You should only plot the S/R lines that are more likely to affect current price action, these are the lines that are closer to the current price"

 

I have added S/R lines to your chart, assuming the market opens close to the 2741. I would appreciate some feedback regarding my lines, are they enough or to many? Are they drawn in the correct area? (I am aware that this is not a pin pointing exercise)

 

Blue lines are support and red lines are resistance.

 

Cheers.

 

Edit= Do you consider 2650 as support simply because it acted as resistance on the 29th feb and on the 9th of March and resistance becomes support or other other reasons?

5aa710f4a38d0_NDXS-R.jpg.b3f062649378f85b5ad5476410dbe214.jpg

Edited by gaelgss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Similar Content

    • By vishnux
      Hey guys , what are the main things you look for to detect if the consolidation area is accumulating or distributing ? 
      1 ) I see springs in top , still markup happens and it becomes accumulation area and vice versa
      2) There is lots of volume absorption in support line and still markdown occurs.
      3) sometimes in market high / low it becomes re-accumulation  / re-distribution
      Is there any clear way to find it ? 
    • By millonmethod
      Hello everyone!
      I am an advanced trader, with many years of experience (about 15 years - 10 living exclusively from this)
      I am going to give you some tips that you must know:
      There are going to be many people who tell you that trade is easy, that with only crossiing a line  with another one you will win a lot of money.... and that´s not true.  No, Sir, reality is far away from that. Many people who start arrive here with the hope that someone "gives them" a free method, they watch youtube videos thinking that this will give them the "strategy" and in a few days they realize that it does not work for them - they lose money - and then They go looking for a new one ... and so on. YES, IT´S TRUE YOU EARN IN TRADING, A LOT. BUT THINK: for a few to win (10% + any BROKER) many others must lose (90% people). YOU MUST HAVE A MONEY MANAGMENT FORMULA ( you can email me) People study so many years to live on this, not because they are dumb, but to know what they do, when, and have absolute effectiveness. It´s very easy to get lost here: do not disperse, jumping from one to another strategy WILL NEVER give you money, it will only waste your time and make you nervous when trading. PEOPLE WHO CHANGE THEIR METHOD CONSTANTLY : LOOOOSE ALWAYS.   If you have the knowledge to develop it, take your time and do it.  Always try it first on DEMO for at least 2 weeks! If not: search to buy a solid strategy (no you tube videos pleassse ! Avoid losing money! ) This is like any business, it requires some capital to start (capital = money in the broker + solid made /purchased strategy) If you are lost: I RECOMMEND YOU NOT TO WASTE TIME IN YOUTUBE, JOIN PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO BUY A METHOD ... PLEASE !!!! DO NOT BUY 10 BAD AND CHEAP METHODS, SAVE MONEY AND BUY ONLY 1 BUT EXCLUSIVE AND MUST ALLWAYS HAVE SUPPORT !!!!!  Do not buy Signals! They never keep up with constant profits! One week will win and the next will lose. Nothing that does not depend absolutely on you will give you the money you are looking for. And if you do not have a strategy (made or purchased) do not even try PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: DO NOT USE REAL MONEY! AT LEAST 2 WEEK DEMO FREE HELP HERE!!!!!  IF YOU FOLLOW MY ADVICE YOU WILL BE PART OF THAT 10% WINNER, email me.
      Have a nice trading day
       
       
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 29th March 2024. GBPUSD Analysis: The Pound Trades Higher But For How Long? The global Stocks Markets are closed due to Easter Friday (Good Friday). The NASDAQ continued to follow the sideways trend while other indices again rose. The SNP500 reaches an all-time high, but the NASDAQ remains under pressure from Tesla, Meta and Apple. The Euro continues to trade lower against all major currencies including the US Dollar, Euro and Japanese Yen. The British Pound is the best performing currency during this morning’s Asian session. However, investors are largely fixing their attention on this afternoon’s Core PCE Price Index. GBPUSD – The Pound Trades Higher but For How Long? The GBPUSD is slightly higher than the day’s open and is primary due to the Pound’s strong performance. At the moment, the British Pound is increasing in value against all major currencies. However, the US Dollar Index is also trading 0.10% higher and for this reason there is a slight conflict here. If investors wish to avoid this conflict, the EURUSD is a better option. This is because, the Euro depreciating against the whole currency market avoiding the “tug-of-war” scenario. The GBPUSD is trading slightly lower than the 2-month’s average price and is trading at 49.10 on the RSI. For this reason, the price of the exchange is at a “neutral” level and is signalling neither a buy nor a sell. The day’s price action and future signals are possibly likely to be triggered by this afternoon’s Core PCE Price Index. Analysts expect the Core PCE Price Index to read 0.3% which is slightly lower than the previous month but will result in the annual figure remaining at 2.85%. The PCE rate is different to the inflation rate and the Fed aims for a rate between 1.5% to 2.00%. Therefore, even if the annual rate remains at 2.85%, as analysts expect, it would be too high for the Fed. If the rate increases, even if only slightly, the US Dollar can again renew bullish momentum and the stock market can come under pressure. This includes the SNP500. Investors are focused on the publication of data on the UK’s gross domestic product (GDP) for the last quarter of 2023: the quarterly figures decreased by 0.3%, and 0.2% over the past 12-months. This confirms the state of a shallow recession and the need for stimulation. The data, combined with a cooling labor market and a steady decline in inflation, increase the likelihood that the Bank of England will soon begin interest rate cuts. In the latest meeting the Bank of England representatives did not see any members vote for a hike. USA500 – The SNP500 Rises to New Highs, But Cannot Hold Onto Gains! The price of the SNP500 rises to an all-time high, before correcting 0.33% and ending the day slightly lower than the open price. Nonetheless, the index performs better than the NASDAQ which came under pressure from Tesla, Meta and Apple which hold a higher weight compared to the SNP500. For the SNP500, these 3 stocks hold a weight of 9.25%, whereas the 3 stocks make up 14.63% of the NASDAQ. The SNP500 is also supported by ExxonMobil’s gains due to higher energy prices. The market will remain closed on Friday due to Easter. However, the market will reopen on Monday for the US and investors can expect high volatility. Investors will also need to take into consideration how the PCE Price Index and the changed value of the US Dollar is likely to affect the stock market next week. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • MT4 is good and will be good until their parent company keep updating the software, later mt4 users will have to switch to mt5.
    • $SOUN SoundHound AI stock at 5.91 support area , see https://stockconsultant.com/?SOUN
    • $ELEV Elevation Oncology stock bull flag breakout watch , see https://stockconsultant.com/?ELEV
    • $AVDX AvidXchange stock narrow range breakout watch above 13.32 , see https://stockconsultant.com/?AVDX
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.