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waveslider

Tradestation Just Lost My Business... Looking for a New Platform/broker

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Thursday's order entry debacle sealed it for me.

 

Tradestation used to be the standard for tech. analysis along with esignal, metastock. In the past years it has been passed up by better products.

 

I am now looking for a new solution.

 

Neoticker has always attracted me, and I think that using the MB account is what I will likely do.

 

I know about ninja trader and it seems good also.

 

Important to me is speed of execution/data quality. I don't need a lot of bells/whistles, but a decent programming language is helpful.

 

I am looking for a broker to work with also, someone who would soft dollar the software (I do a lot of business), and provide competitive commissions. Also the broker has to handle securities, or the software should handle multiple brokers.

 

Any help/suggestions are welcome, thanks in advance.

Edited by waveslider
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TS as a broker is pretty useless, but their charting and datafeed is still useful to me, so I am keeping a minimal TS account and doing 10 trades/month.

The most painless transition away from TS as a broker is probably to go Multicharts and IB. MC is >95% compatible with TS ESL and will support more brokers in the future : http://forum.tssupport.com/viewtopic.php?t=5419

We have finished working on FXCM as a supported broker. Our engineers have almost completed developing Zen Fire and are in the process of developing Pats. Trading Technologies is next in the line.

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I have often defended TS in the past but I am done with that. Their brokerage incompetence seems to grow with each passing quarter. I still like their charting, but the warts on the brokerage side are making me seriously consider a switch to Multicharts as well.

 

TS as a broker is pretty useless, but their charting and datafeed is still useful to me, so I am keeping a minimal TS account and doing 10 trades/month.

The most painless transition away from TS as a broker is probably to go Multicharts and IB. MC is >95% compatible with TS ESL and will support more brokers in the future : http://forum.tssupport.com/viewtopic.php?t=5419

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I have often defended TS in the past but I am done with that. Their brokerage incompetence seems to grow with each passing quarter. I still like their charting, but the warts on the brokerage side are making me seriously consider a switch to Multicharts as well.

 

But MC is just a charting platform. What advantage will this give you over TS if you still like the charting, but not TS brokerage? If you switch to MC, you will still need a broker and you don't get a better charting platform.

 

I have been using MC for the last 3+ years and has pretty much given up on them. Don't be fooled by all the features listed on their website. Many of them are very buggy. They implement features just for the sake of listing it on their website, but don't necessarily care to fix the bugs. They used to be very good in the beginning, but lately it seems they implement a feature, list it on their website and move on to the next feature without caring to fix the bugs first before implementing a new one. When pointing out the bugs, they just provide the vague response that it will be fixed/implemented in one of the future versions. Some issues have not been fixed yet for literally years. I suspect this is because they started off on the wrong path and to fix something will require massive rework, so they just ignore it.

 

The software is also very unstable. It crashes frequently and sometimes takes forever to start. It seems to be more stable if you have lots of memory and fast CPU, but forget about running it on the their minimum requirements. I can understand software being slow if you don't have lots of resources, but it is a sign of buggy software if it just crashes on less resources.

 

I think a big problem is that none of the MC staff actually trades so they don't understand what is really important. For example, they don't have a Trade Manager. If you trade longer term, you have to keep track of trades manually, change your system to write the next day's orders to a file, or look in the log files per their "solution". They don't think a Trade Manager is important even though they said it will be implemented in one of the future versions, which could be anything from 2 months to 3 years.

 

All in all, I don't think MC is any better than any entry level charting program out there and certainly is no better than TS with that regard. The advantage is that it does integrate with IB and other brokers like OEC for a datafeed and this is why I got it in the beginning. Back then the lifetime lisence was around $200 and with the pretty much free IB feed, you couldn't beat it for price.

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Does multicharts support any other broker besides IB? I hear their data feed is sub-par.

Other than that it looks good.

bh - agree, done defending TS

 

 

Scroll down to the bottom of the page to see their supported datafeeds.

 

http://www.tssupport.com/multicharts/datamanagement/

 

For a broker, they only support IB. They do claim to have an API available which you can use to connect to any broker. The price for this API is $5K.

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Look at SierraChart.

 

I used to be a TS2000 user but never fancied letting those b'stards be my broker. So when I got into day trading I moved to SC because it was cheap and reliable.

 

Its now very functional, very fast and NOT buggy, although the way they think is different to the way TS think so getting used to HOW the package does its stuff will take a few weeks. Once used to it people don't seem to switch back. It has both Worksheet based programming and dll based programming.

 

I use it with IB only (data + order entry) but quite a few people use SC's optional data feed and IB or other brokers (see their partner page).

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wave,

 

Neoticker is by far an awesome product with respect to features and the ability to mix and match multiple time frames, bar formats, and products all on the same chart, BUT:

I have a decent background in programming and whoa, coding in Neoticker was completely confusing. Finally when I got to the coding stage and tried some systems, I realized I had some data feed issues (with IB) that coud be corrected in Neoticker. I quickly asked a question on the forum and was told that most users have a professional feed and most users are "professionals". After a month, I gave up. Although the product is great, coding is not intuitive. I moved on to RightEdge because it gave the ability to program in C#. After a year of mucking around, th product is still in its infancy but if you are a good programmer (really good) you can do anything with that software (although not out of the box). That means you can right plugins for any datafeed / broker etc. Having said that, I recently switched to NinjaTrader and here is what I have found:

In less than a week, I had all my years worth of indicators in RightEdge transferred over. It is extremely simple to write custom indicators in NT6. It also supports C# (which I learned on the fly). If you are motivated enough, you can write your own datafeed and broker interface fairly simply but they support many out of the box, IB is one of them. Their chart trader feature is invaluable asis their trade management feature. So far the CONS for this platform is the baility to access/ view multiple products on the same chart. Specifically being able to trigger off of market internals to enter/exit YM for example. However, this is coming I am told.

 

Bottom line, I think NT is worth a look, its free to play/sim with until you want to go live, and they tend to respond quickly enough to their forums.

 

hope this helps...

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Anyone use neoticker? Its expensive, but has been around for years and seems to be outpacing the rest.

Neoticker looks interesting and Lawrence Chan writes a nice blog :http://newsletter.neoticker.com/

Flatwallet has written a good review right here on TL: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f92/re-experience-with-neoticker-3327.html#post37285 A lot of good info by Flatwallet, especially the part where you can save 33% off NeoT with the openecry offer:

http://www.openecry.com/special/announcement.cfm

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Hi waveslider,

 

I am sorry to hear about more TS crap. I was with TS over 3 years ago and went through similar stuff. It got me so so mad that I wrote a thread on ET about it titled "Tradestation - a risk to your business". It seems things haven't changed there. I have been using neoticker for about 1.5 years and it does take some initial getting used to. But I have found that to be true with every charting platform I have used. The same goes for learning how to program in a different platform. All I can say here is that, for me, it has been beneficial to stick with Neoticker.

 

Good luck on your exploration - I know it is time consuming and feels a bit chaotic.

 

MK

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Tradestation is a worst of breed company with one huge exception -- EasyLanguage. EL is a kick-ass product and there is nothing like it. Too bad this application is buried within a piece of shit company otherwise.

 

Meanwhile, Interactive Brokers 'Universal Account' is a kick-ass feature.

 

I am just switching myself having given up on Tradestation. I tried Ensign Software for a few months but decided I don't like it.

 

I am going with Interactive Brokers and running Multicharts. I need the functionality of EasyLanguage and the the ease-of-use of Interactive Brokers universal account. I do not need every bell and whistle, I just want to be able to write simple indicators designed to read order-flow in exactly the way that I want -- and EasyLanguage/PowerLanguage (Multicharts name) accomplishes this goal.

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Thank you VERY much jlurkin, this is important knowledge from experience which may have saved me a year to figure out.

I have been hearing about issues with IB's data feed, what that also getting multiple products on the same charts? Quality? Speed?

Will take a look at sierra charts too.

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Anyone use neoticker? Its expensive, but has been around for years and seems to be outpacing the rest.

 

I used to a long time ago. I quit as I had data mnagement issues (holes would show up in my tick database). It was with regret I shelved it. The main criticism is that the scripting and programming have a steep learning curve. It's very powerful though. I am sure that the data issue is sorted now. Their tickprecise feature allows you to do stuff that can not be achieved in other packages.

 

I agree broadly with what sevensa has posted about Multicharts. Having said that version 3.0 is reasonably stable and despite niggles it does the job. The beauty is that it compiles ELA's. There is a reasonably broad range of datafeeds.

 

Ninjatrade with Zenfire datafeed/execution engine is un-beatable at the price (free if you don't need dynamic DOM and multi-broker support). Probably every bit as good data and execution wise as TT. Charting and scripting is not bad at all (but with a bit of a learning curve, not as bad as Neoticker).

 

I use the last two currently depending on what I am doing. I would grab a trial MC which would probably have you up and running in no time at all. Ninja is worth taking a look as that won't cost anything. If you are prepared to put the time in with Neoticker I doubt you would be disapointed, it might take a bit of time to get the results you want though.

 

Cheers.

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think or swim is a great outfit with free extensive charting software,great for stocks and options,futures are best with spike trading,there t4 platform is lightning fast and easy to use,$4.75 a round turn with low intraday margins,you'll need 2 computers,one for charts with th or swim and another for 2nd acct for futures,think does futures but they are expensive,$7rt,and full margin

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wave,

 

Neoticker is by far an awesome product with respect to features and the ability to mix and match multiple time frames, bar formats, and products all on the same chart, BUT:

I have a decent background in programming and whoa, coding in Neoticker was completely confusing. Finally when I got to the coding stage and tried some systems, I realized I had some data feed issues (with IB) that coud be corrected in Neoticker. I quickly asked a question on the forum and was told that most users have a professional feed and most users are "professionals". After a month, I gave up. Although the product is great, coding is not intuitive. I moved on to RightEdge because it gave the ability to program in C#. After a year of mucking around, th product is still in its infancy but if you are a good programmer (really good) you can do anything with that software (although not out of the box). That means you can right plugins for any datafeed / broker etc. Having said that, I recently switched to NinjaTrader and here is what I have found:

In less than a week, I had all my years worth of indicators in RightEdge transferred over. It is extremely simple to write custom indicators in NT6. It also supports C# (which I learned on the fly). If you are motivated enough, you can write your own datafeed and broker interface fairly simply but they support many out of the box, IB is one of them. Their chart trader feature is invaluable asis their trade management feature. So far the CONS for this platform is the baility to access/ view multiple products on the same chart. Specifically being able to trigger off of market internals to enter/exit YM for example. However, this is coming I am told.

 

Bottom line, I think NT is worth a look, its free to play/sim with until you want to go live, and they tend to respond quickly enough to their forums.

 

hope this helps...

 

Wave, don't mean to steal the thread here but it seems you have spent a good time on NT - please feel free to PM me if you prefer. My question is on playback, can you actually playback multiple days in sequence? I've actually seen some replay files in their forum but it's only for one day ... some of my indicators need at least 2 days. Thanks.

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I am satisfied user of Neoticker & IB for about half a year now. It is by far one of the most flexible platform in the market, there is almost nothing that cannot be implemented on it. However with that flexibility comes the complexity, once you overcome the birth difficulties, the power will be in your hands.

I plan to move in the future for a better data source than IB as I am looking for better history upload and more reliable volume information.

 

tradinghumble, in Neoticker simulator you define the date & time you would like to stat your replay, and than NT will update your charts with all history up till that date, simulation will play from that moment on.

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Thank you VERY much jlurkin, this is important knowledge from experience which may have saved me a year to figure out.

I have been hearing about issues with IB's data feed, what that also getting multiple products on the same charts? Quality? Speed?

Will take a look at sierra charts too.

 

IB is good for their Universal Account only. Don't even waste your time considering them as a datafeed. Ok, maybe thats harsh but here's why:

Their feed is sampled/throttled so you will not get tick data. Their feed is reasonably fast in a fast market but if you are trying to build tick or volume bars, they will not be accurate (depending on the application). More importantly even their volume data is not accurate. For example, with every tick (sampled) their is volume data, but what about the volume for the missed ticks? That shows up as another event (Volume update event or something). Now depending on your platform, it may use that data and arbitrarily apply it to the last bar or discard it. Either way, the volume has no price data attached and you get incorrect bars. If you try to use market statistics for example, VWAP will be out of whack and unreliable. The fix for this intraday is to never do a backfill, annoying at best. Also historical updates take way too long.

IB's fees are reasonable, and access to products and markets is great, thats about it.

For free data, OpenTick data is accurate, but it seems slow in fast markets. I believe they are restructuring and will be allowing new subscribers soon. Good way to get Ninja tested out with OT for free.

For Live, I hear ZenFire is a super fast feed due to the compression it uses but I will be trying them out a little later myself.

DTN is also another feed I have in the back of my mind for stocks and other products.

I guess Tradestation is where it is because it offers a one stop shop - Platform, real time data, historical data and execution. You will have to handle these separately. Here are some options I want to look into myself

1. IB as broker, Ninja as Platform, DTNIQ as feed - Handles stocks, futures

2. Mirus broker, Ninja, ZenFire - Handles futures

3. IB, Ninja - Handles Futures, stocks (if tick level data is not too important)

 

Option 1 is ideal since you can us DTN as primary feed and IB feed as secondary.

 

Again, not sure exactly what your system requirements are and how far back you want to backtest etc, so just some suggestions that I am considering myself. Jus remember, I learned about IB's data feed the long and hard way. No need to repeat that journey!

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I know you are fuming right now with tradestation, but whatever you do, hang on to them until you are 110% up and running and confident on your new platform. You don't want to waste months only to find out you have to start over, been there twice now. In the end it will be their loss anyway. Heck hang on to them any way as a back up and run your miimum required trades. Also note that many platforms such as RightEdge, WealthLab, Ninja (even NeoTicker I think) are all supporting C#. Its an easy langage with tons of free support all over the net. If you have to learn a new language, this is the one, IMHO, the simplest.

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IB data has been discussed recently elsewhere. What they do is aggregate ticks however in my experience (testing various futures for a couple of weeks against Zenfire) the volume is pretty spot on. Depending on what you want to do it is perfectly adequate. For example if I can use constant volume or time based bars I often use IB & multicharts - if I want to process every single tick or need atick chart I'll use something else. To be honest most of the time it is pretty academic.

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I got caught in the debacle as well. Stuck in an position I didn't know I had filled on until i rebooted the platform 2 hours later and was down 400.00/contract.

 

But i took screenshots and documented the process and what was happening, account status, order failures, etc.

 

I emailed them and they provided full restitution +20.00 to cover any commissions i might've endured.

 

They screwed up and it was the most frustrating trade situation i've ever been in but they made right by me.

 

That being said, I think i'll be switching to Multicharts 3.0 and AGN futures as a broker. (FREE DATA!!!) and the tick data is excellent unlike IB.

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That's good they reimbursed you. Most brokers tell you so sorry, including my friend with TransAct a couple of days back, overall they are a fine broker.

 

I glad you posted that because I really want to find something to backtest my price and volume set ups, but can't spend the time and scenarios. I have literally almost opened a TS account 3 times this summer and then I see a thread topic like this or on ET where ppl. say TS network locked up and it cost them $$$.

 

I have a question on TS if I can ask. Is there anything I should know before using it for back testing futures. Normally when I manually backtest I just chop off the high/low to ensure a fill in ES. Right now I spend almost 7 minutes per set up manually backtesting and I am overwhelmed trying to test this set up vs. this manually.

 

On MC I have tried it twice and I can't get TS EL code to work. So I ask MC and they blame my computer and put the finger at me? Then they want to me to add a registry change to MS after I just reformat and everything was working fine. Still didn't work. They to want to blame bugs in their software on you. Maybe a good product but it's now the 2nd trial and doesn't work.

 

Is it hard to learn EL? I looked for a dummies book but no luck. I have never coded before.

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Well i've used TS for over two years now, and while they aren't perfect I have had no issues regarding data slowness, etc. Thats all a bunch of ET B.S. like most things over there are. In fact, they've done extensive upgrading recently to get even faster data.

 

This debacle the other day was the first time i've ever experience anything like that.

 

Curious on the bugs with MC. I have heard that from a friend as well when he tried them. I really want those guys to get the kinks ironed out of that platform because it is just soooo cool.

 

Anyway, I do manual backtesting as well with the same kind of logic. There really isn't too many ways around it.

 

I don't trade automated setups so i've never used the backtesting extensively but EL is fairly easy to code, but like anything, TS wants you to have to pay to go to education schools, etc for coding help, etc.

 

That being said there are tons of sites like this one and kreslik that have loads of indicators already created and ready to go for you.

 

Hope this helps.

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    • USDJPY Remains Biased To The Downside   USDJPY faces further price weakness despite its price hesitation on Tuesday. On the upside, resistance comes in at 109.00 level. Above this level will turn attention to the 109.50 level. Further out, we expect a possible move towards the 110.00 level on a break of that area, A cut through here will open the door for more gain towards the 110.50. On the downside, support lies at the 108.00 level where a break will target the 107.50 level. Below that level will turn focus to the 107.00 level and then lower towards the 106.50 level. On the whole, USDJPY faces further downside threats.        
    • Sterling Advances Barely Hours To UK Elections As Latest Poll Predicts Conservatives Win In just two days from now, a major event that will set the trend for the currency market for the year 2020, the UK elections will be held. In the face of a Brexit extension, UK prime minister had pushed for an earlier election in the hopes of having a majority conservatives win in the parliament which will make the Brexit deal pass through easily. As the clock ticks, with barely less than 48 hours to this epochal event, the newest poll by Survation conducted for ITV’s good morning Britain show predicts a Boris Johnson win by 14 pts. ahead of Jeremy Corbyn‘s Labour party. The Brexit deal seemed to give the conservatives an edge as it accounted for 32% of the vote decision while NHS gave Labour party a slight edge. On the overall, a majority vote of 42% was predicted for the conservatives while Labour had 28%. Market Reaction as the Clock Ticks Optimism looms in the market as the prediction of a conservatives win will ease Britain’s exit from Europe by January 31 deadline. The EUR/GBP pair continued to fall till the early hours of today breaking the 0.8411 trend line targeting the 0.8149 resistance level. GBP/USD pair rebounded to consolidate briefly targeting 1.3381 resistance levels. Technical analysis within a 4-hour MACD shows that both pairs may likely touch down. CAD edged slightly higher advanced by USMCA news but yet to consolidate gains. The USD against a basket of five major currencies held steady awaiting FOMC’s minutes due out tomorrow. Against a basket of currencies, NZD’s dominance is the highest. Sterling also gained momentum firmed up by approaching UK elections. The safe-haven, the Japanese yen, and Swiss franc remain pressured as major events that will shape the market for 2020 are been anticipated. On the Asia side, significant market activity wasn’t recorded as most currency pairs held steady within a day’s range. In the Asian stock market, not so much activity was recorded being weakened by recently released Chinese PMI numbers. Most of the indexes closed a little lower while US stocks rose swiftly after Friday’s release of US non-farm payroll reports. The outcome of the December 15 deadline set by the US for the signing of a preliminary trade pact will determine the week’s direction and even further into the year 2020. Also due out later in the week is UK GDP figures and ZEW released out of Germany.
    • Date : 11th December 2019. FOMC Preview – 11th December 2019. FOMC Preview No policy changes or surprises are expected with today’s announcement (19:00 GMT) and Chair Powell’s press conference 30 minutes later. It will be interesting to see if, as expected, the voting is unanimous this time round. The FOMC members have expressed significant differences of opinion during 2019 as three rate cuts were implemented.  The apparent paradox of low unemployment and low inflation, the new “norm”. The two-digit unemployment rate (U-3) in November edged down to 3.53% from 3.56% in October, and a 3.52% cycle-low in September, all below the 3.58% prior cycle-low in April and a 4.00% rate at the beginning of the year. Current readings remain much lower than the 4.2% long-run unemployment rate projection noted in the September SEP, it is expected that this estimate will be trimmed today. Headline CPI rose 0.4% in October while the core index rose by 0.2%, for respective y/y gains of 1.8% and 2.3%, versus September figures of 1.7% and 2.4%. Today the November headline is expected to fall again to 0.2% and the core remains flat at 0.2% too. The Fed’s favoured inflation gauge, the PCE chain price measure, rose 1.3% y/y in October and expectations are for an uptick to 1.4% in November. The core PCE chain price measure rose 1.6% y/y in November, versus 1.7% in September, and expectations are for the pace to hold at 1.6% in November. The FOMC’s latest median estimates for 2019 inflation are 1.5% for the headline and 1.8% for the core. Hence, the focus will be on the Fed’s new quarterly forecasts, with expectations raised and likely to be mostly bullish results with a bump up in the median growth projection and a drop in the median dot to reflect a steady stance through 2020. However, the individual dots are likely to show both, forecasts for cuts and hikes. Chair Powell is expected to reiterate the US economy and policy are in a “good place,” (a phrase he has used a number of times lately) and could sound a little more upbeat after the strong jobs report. But, he will continue to warn of downside risks. The FOMC isn’t likely to announce any new measures on reserve management operations (QE?) or a repo facility. All steady into 2020 and beyond. USDIndex remains biased to the down side but has support around 97.40 and the 200-day moving average. A breach of this key support zone brings in 97.00 and the October low of 96.85. A break over 97.80 (the confluence of the 20 and 50-day moving averages) and 98.00 would be required before a re-test of the recent high at 98.50 could be considered. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HotForex Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Stuart Cowell Head Market Analyst HotForex Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
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