Trend Indicator for TS?

[J-S 10]

Hi! First time poster here. I'm looking for something for TradeStation in which I can define a trend and have it tell me when one is in place. For example, let's say 4 full points in the ES (16 ticks) WITHOUT a 6-tick retracement. Does anything like that exist? Thanks.

[Blu-Ray 10]

Hi J-S

 

Could you post some pics of what you're referring to. ( a picture can speak a thousand words )

 

Cheers

 

Blu-Ray

[J-S 10]

Hi Blu-Ray,

 

Agreed, but I don't really know what to take a picture of here. Really, any strong trend would do it. You know, just a trend not really broken up by any substantial retracements.

[Blu-Ray 10]

J-S

 

I think the main question would be what criteria you are after to define an uptrend, eg higher highs and higher lows, higher highs only, or consecutive higher closes etc........ if so how many bars..........

 

This would need to be worked out for it to be put into a TS code and that was the reason I was asking for a couple of pics to see what you mean.

 

Hope this helps

 

Blu-Ray

[J-S 10]

Ah, okay. Well, how about this. Simply the distance between the lowest low of a trend (uptrend, obviously) to the highest high. That is, let's say the ES goes from a low point of 1400.00 to a high point of 1404.00 WITHOUT ever retracing 6 ticks (say, from 1403.00 down to 1401.50, and then back up again to 1404.00). Does that help? Thanks again.

[Blu-Ray 10]

Ah, okay. Well, how about this. Simply the distance between the lowest low of a trend (uptrend, obviously) to the highest high. That is, let's say the ES goes from a low point of 1400.00 to a high point of 1404.00 WITHOUT ever retracing 6 ticks (say, from 1403.00 down to 1401.50, and then back up again to 1404.00). Does that help? Thanks again.

 

Apologies in advance, but how are you defining an uptrend ?

 

I'll have a look into after hours, but if you can post a pic it would really help.

 

In the meantime if anyone else comes forward............

 

Cheers

 

Blu-Ray

[J-S 10]

Hi. Well, I define an uptrend, for the sake of this conversation anyway (and what I'm looking for from a code), just as I described it in that last post. I just used the word uptrend to distinguish it from the opposite -- obviously a downtrend. For that, everything would simply be the opposite -- from 1404 down to 1400. Thanks.

[thrunner 10]

Here are some trend threads on TS to get a better idea of how to define a trend : https://www.tradestation.com/Discussions/Topic.aspx?Topic_ID=30732

https://www.tradestation.com/discussions/topic.aspx?topic_id=30775

 

A lot of smarter traders than you and I have tried to define it and in the above threads you have mmillar, Bamboo, ghkramer, waynechem and others trying to do so. There is really no need to start your own new definition of trend when the market is full of traders following each other in these definitions.

 

If you want a short summary, here it is:

1. about half the market is looking at a moving average trend

2. the other half may be looking at some trend lines (or zigzags, similar idea).

3. the calculation of trends can be made more precise by using the average true range function (ATR). The market often trades with an ATR stop. In practice, a trend would often stall or ends once the ATR trailing stop is hit.

 

If you like the idea of following a moving average trend, the following waynechem indicator based on calculating the area under the trending moving averages may be a start:

{ TrendArea Indicator  WAV 9/15/04 } 

inputs: ThresholdArea(1500); 

vars: BarCount(0),SlowMA(0),FastMA(0), 
color(0),area(0); 

SlowMA = average(close,15); 
FastMA = average(close,5); 

{ see if we have a new possible trend starting } 
if FastMA crosses above SlowMA or 
  FastMA crosses below SlowMA then 
begin 
  BarCount = 0; 
  area = 0; 
end; 

{ increment BarCount +1 if FastMA above SlowMA... 
 decrement BarCount -1 if FastMA below SlowMA} 
BarCount = IFF(FastMA > SlowMA,BarCount + 1,BarCount); 
BarCount = IFF(FastMA < SlowMA,BarCount - 1,BarCount); 

{ multiply each individual area by its barcount } 
area = area +  AbsValue(BarCount) * (FastMA - SlowMA); 

color = IFF(BarCount > 0,green,cyan); 
color = IFF(BarCount < 0,red,color); 

plot1(area,"Area",color); 
plot2(0,"zero line"); 
plot3(ThresholdArea,"+Thresh"); 
plot4(-ThresholdArea,"-Thresh"); 

[J-S 10]

Well, thanks, but I think everyone here is getting a bit sidetracked by trying to determine what is or isn't a trend. Really, the only definition I'm interested in is the one I defined -- 4 full points on the ES in one direction (doesn't matter which) without a 6 tick retracement in the midst of that trend. That's not something I made up -- the system I'm trading has a higher probability of working by not trading a reversal of such a trend. I don't expect there to be anything with those exact parameters, of course. I was just hoping there might maybe be a code in which I could just plug in those numbers. For all I know, it's a ridiculous question. I'm still fairly new to trading, and even newer to TradeStation (I had used Sierra Chart before). Furthermore, I know NOTHING about coding! The only reason I think it might NOT be a ridiculous question is that I've already found myself amazed at what's out there, and what's possible even if not yet out there. Hope that clears things up! Thanks again.

[J-S 10]

Just one more thought on this, by the way. From the still relatively little I know about TradeStation, I get the feeling that if such a thing does in fact exist, it might be in the form of a "show me" dot type-thing rather than an indicator. You know -- as in when such a trend is in place, a dot appears.

[Blu-Ray 10]

Well, thanks, but I think everyone here is getting a bit sidetracked by trying to determine what is or isn't a trend. Really, the only definition I'm interested in is the one I defined -- 4 full points on the ES in one direction (doesn't matter which) without a 6 tick retracement in the midst of that trend. That's not something I made up -- the system I'm trading has a higher probability of working by not trading a reversal of such a trend. I don't expect there to be anything with those exact parameters, of course. I was just hoping there might maybe be a code in which I could just plug in those numbers. For all I know, it's a ridiculous question. I'm still fairly new to trading, and even newer to TradeStation (I had used Sierra Chart before). Furthermore, I know NOTHING about coding! The only reason I think it might NOT be a ridiculous question is that I've already found myself amazed at what's out there, and what's possible even if not yet out there. Hope that clears things up! Thanks again.

 

J-S

 

Thrunner has posted some excellent material for you, but you seem to have dismissed it. I don't mind coding something up for you, but what you're describing without a pic doesn't make sense, as you can see in my chart below all 4 point moves are not equal.

 

 

Now seriously, I've asked 3 times for you to post a chart, but nothing yet, you keep saying just a 4 point move without a 6 tick retracement.

 

Heres the code you're after but it's missing a vital part:

 

Inputs:

UpColor( Green ),DownColor ( Red);

 

Condition1 = UpTrend { this being your version of an uptrend, eg 3 higher highs or 3 higher closes, or 3 closes above a moving average, above ATR.....etc }

Condition2 = DownTrend { Opposite criteria for uptrend }

 

If Condition1 then Plot1(high,"UpTrend", UpColor);

If Condition2 then Plot2(Low,"DownTrend", DownColor);

 

Cheers

 

Blu-Ray

[J-S 10]

Blu Ray,

 

First, just a few comments. Believe me, I NEVER expected you or anyone else here to actually code anything for me! I just thought that someone might know of something in the universe of TS codes out there that might fit the description of what I'm looking for. I'm TRULY grateful! I wish you would have made that clear, though. The fact is, I've never (believe it or not) taken a screenshot of TS before. At first it wasn't uploading to this forum properly. Finally I tried saving the image as a jpeg instead of a bitmap file and now it seems to have worked. I just thought that a good description would be as good as an image, but I guess you feel otherwise. But again, had I known that you were actually going to attempt to code something, I would have acted differently.

 

Also, I have no doubt that Thrunner's information is, yes, excellent, and it wasn't my intention to dismiss it. It's just that I try to trade (like, I would think, most serious traders) very rule-based, and this definition of a trend fits my rules. I'm not saying that others aren't valid -- they're just not mine. Please keep in mind that what I'm trying to do here, in labeling these trends, is to disqualify potential trades without having to take the time to actually "count" the trend -- obviously very hard to do in a fast-moving market.

 

Anyway, the good news is that I found a perfect pic for you! As you'll see from my annotations on the actual chart, the upmove on the left does NOT constitute a trend according to my rules because the six-tick retracement prevents it from being one. The downmove on the right IS a trend, as there is no six-tick retracement. By the way, you'll notice that my bars are of a much shorter timeframe (well, volume level, actually) than the ones in your image. I suppose it doesn't really make a difference in the actual calculation, but it's certainly clearer visually when there are more bars involved. Maybe that's part of the confusion here. So, finally, here's the chart! Thanks again.

[Blu-Ray 10]

Thanks for the chart J-S.

 

The reason I asked for a chart is, as we all know, you can look at a chart and say " it's in an uptrend", but putting that into coding language is not so straight forward. Let me explain using your chart.

 

You could go for, for example, 3 higher highs.........so the code would be

 

if H > H[1] and H > H[2] and H > H[3] then plot............

 

but using your chart it would stop where I've marked A.

 

Alternatively you could use the code so if the high is higher or equal to previous bar, this would get you above A, but it would also signal an uptrend at B for example.

 

You could then move on to higher highs and higher lows and this would again stop at A.

 

You could then do as above so the high and low are greater or equals to the previous, but realise that could result in C.

 

Another thing that you might ( edit: you will ) find is that where I've marked D. for example if that low was 1 tick above the previous low then your downtrend is invalidated ( via the code ) but you're still clearly in a downtrend.

 

Basically what I'm trying to point out is that although visually we can spot a trend, but putting that into code needs criteria.

 

Hope this helps

 

Blu-Ray

 

[BlowFish 10]

J-S on your chart the downtrend is over almost as soon as it starts. You don't know it is a downtrend until it has moved 4 points right? A point later price retraces 6+ ticks so its finished.

 

There are much better ways of determining trend imho that you can see instantly just using price action. Is price making higher highs higher lows and higher closes? Is it leaving higher swing highs and swing lows? etc. Thats just my opinion each to there own of course:D

 

You might want to check out Clyde Lee's website the swing machine he has a tradestation function called swingleeII (from memory) that is freely given and has many user inputs and options to determine swing points. It will plot a zigzag swing to swing I think too. Actually i believe most zigzag indicators will do what you require with little or no modification.

 

Cheers.

[J-S 10]

Okay, this is obviously more difficult than I thought. Or, maybe I should say, than I had hoped! I'm going to have to take some time to digest all of this after-hours. I'm kind of getting the feeling that what I want is not possible -- indefinable by code.

[johnnydaymon 11]

There is a v2 of TrendArea

TRENDAREA 1 & 2.ELD