Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Bfbusa

Trading Size

Recommended Posts

Guest cooter

Beautiful. I think Walter has captured the essence of it, at least for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brown : you must take into acct that the first hour of trading is diferent to the rest of the session... if you are scalper your first hour its like a session itself... IF IF the market shows a momentum day in front ( very unusual ) then you may consider leaving some runners.... but for the seasoned scalper, his session is normally the first hour and goodby, lets play golf, take a dip on the pool, make love... if he keeps trading ( happens to me ) normally as he is on a diferent allien context he will give back his first hour gains... there is no point in staying on such diferent market context if you made good money on your normal habitat.... cheers Walter.

 

If your analysis has shown that your trading is best suited for the first hour and the first hour only, then I would just trade the first hour as well. I have no idea how a seasoned scalper operates as I am not trading for ticks myself.

 

For example - the ES got a really nice drop today around 11am EST. If you just trade the first hour and the first hour only, you just missed out on a ton of available cash... For me, that's not worth missing by limiting myself to either a $ gain and/or a time limit.

 

In the end, we have NO IDEA when the best movements will show up. No idea. I've heard the first hour and done, no lunch, only morning and/or afternoon, etc. etc. And if your trading does not survive during these times b/c you have proven to yourself this is the case, great. If you are just saying only trade the 1st hour b/c some website or book said to, I would suggest that until you perform your own analysis, that suggestion means nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If your analysis has shown that your trading is best suited for the first hour and the first hour only, then I would just trade the first hour as well. I have no idea how a seasoned scalper operates as I am not trading for ticks myself.

 

For example - the ES got a really nice drop today around 11am EST. If you just trade the first hour and the first hour only, you just missed out on a ton of available cash... For me, that's not worth missing by limiting myself to either a $ gain and/or a time limit.

 

In the end, we have NO IDEA when the best movements will show up. No idea. I've heard the first hour and done, no lunch, only morning and/or afternoon, etc. etc. And if your trading does not survive during these times b/c you have proven to yourself this is the case, great. If you are just saying only trade the 1st hour b/c some website or book said to, I would suggest that until you perform your own analysis, that suggestion means nothing.

 

 

Brown : I have 11 years of my own experience to say that... lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brown : I have 11 years of my own experience to say that... lol

 

Walter - sounds like you have proven to yourself that the first 1 hour of trading is best for the way you trade. And the fact is that most traders will never reach the point to be able to say with 100% confidence what you are saying here. Anyone can say don't trade during lunch, the AM session, the PM session, etc. but until you actually do it yourself for the way you trade, it doesn't mean much. I mean, you said the first hour is best. I've read over and over that staying out of the first half hour is the best way to get the 'unprofessional' money out of the way. Is either 'right'? Well, only the end user can decide that. Like you, I love the first hour usually. On a day like today however, the move I am looking to jump on did not show till about 11am EST.

 

But in reference to my above mentioned ES down move from earlier, this thing is still cooking for me. Initial short was around 11am EST and 1/3 of my contracts are still out there short. I have no idea if this will continue down more or not, but the only way to win is to be in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The only way to win is to be in the game

 

 

 

 

:cool:

 

Just in case anyone missed that...

 

 

jejejej good Mr Paul ¡¡¡ and yes Brown, normally on my type of play the game happens on the first hour... after that usually its over... dont forget I am a scalper, not a day trader... cheers Walter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good discussion here, even if it digressed a bit. ;)

 

Hopefully any new traders reading this are realizing a couple things...

 

1) You can't just take what you read in a book, message board, etc. and assume that way of trading will work for you. Here, in this thread, I've tried to explain that in order for me to execute my plan, I need to be in any and all trades that appear, regardless of time. Walter has shared that his way of trading best produces in the first hour of trading. No one is 'right' here as each of us operate differently and have different ideal conditions.

 

2) Once you prove to yourself that particular setup(s) at particular time(s) work, trade it like there's no tomorrow. Again, you MUST be confident in your setups due to your hours and hours of work that prove your analysis is solid.

 

3) In order to win the game, you must be a participant. You cannot win watching from the sidelines.

 

And today was a great example... I had 3 setups today. The first two netted out a gain, but nothing to be exited about. Then the move of the day occurred and with a short around 11am, I literally rode 1/3 of my contracts till the close of the day. This is the kind of trade that I am talking about... First, you have to be in it to have a chance at catching this. Second, if you set a firm goal of $XXX/day, I would have exited this short LONG before it was even close to being done. That's some serious money left on the table.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good discussion here, even if it digressed a bit. ;)

 

Hopefully any new traders reading this are realizing a couple things...

 

1) You can't just take what you read in a book, message board, etc. and assume that way of trading will work for you. Here, in this thread, I've tried to explain that in order for me to execute my plan, I need to be in any and all trades that appear, regardless of time. Walter has shared that his way of trading best produces in the first hour of trading. No one is 'right' here as each of us operate differently and have different ideal conditions.

 

2) Once you prove to yourself that particular setup(s) at particular time(s) work, trade it like there's no tomorrow. Again, you MUST be confident in your setups due to your hours and hours of work that prove your analysis is solid.

 

3) In order to win the game, you must be a participant. You cannot win watching from the sidelines.

 

And today was a great example... I had 3 setups today. The first two netted out a gain, but nothing to be exited about. Then the move of the day occurred and with a short around 11am, I literally rode 1/3 of my contracts till the close of the day. This is the kind of trade that I am talking about... First, you have to be in it to have a chance at catching this. Second, if you set a firm goal of $XXX/day, I would have exited this short LONG before it was even close to being done. That's some serious money left on the table.

 

 

Well said Brownsfan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, this is pretty much what I will end up doing.

 

This whole week I contemplated going large size to help me pick the only the best entries. Well, sitting there with a teen number of contracts on the launch pad with the mindset of really pulling the trigger certainly did make me wait for only the textbook setup. I decided that it was just too risky. I was also becoming " comfortable " with the possibility of taking a loss. I guess I thought about it too long, ( Part of my risk management, consider your losses before taking the trade), and that essentially put me back to square one, being too comfortable in taking a loss.

 

This whole exercise did help me bring to focus on sharpening my rules. I will actually trade smaller size in certain situations and gradually increase my size in others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... I guess I thought about it too long...

 

Welcome to the club Bf!! It's always good to review your mechanics and fine tune as needed, but as we all know, your mind can be your own worst enemy at times. It's good to be able to share on a forum like this to get some constructive feedback.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Along the lines of a fixed daily goal and walking away... today I had a long setup on the ES at 10AM EST. I currently have 1/3 of my contracts still running out there. Entry was 1502.25. Current price is 1508. I have no idea if this will continue all day, like yesterday, but if I limited myself to making a certain amount of dollars and quitting, I would be out of this trade already. That would make 2 days in a row of nice running trades that would have been exited prematurely.

 

So, setting a daily goal and then walking away may sound good in the textbooks, but I would be hard pressed to see the practical use of such a method.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Along the lines of a fixed daily goal and walking away... today I had a long setup on the ES at 10AM EST. I currently have 1/3 of my contracts still running out there. Entry was 1502.25. Current price is 1508. I have no idea if this will continue all day, like yesterday, but if I limited myself to making a certain amount of dollars and quitting, I would be out of this trade already. That would make 2 days in a row of nice running trades that would have been exited prematurely.

 

So, setting a daily goal and then walking away may sound good in the textbooks, but I would be hard pressed to see the practical use of such a method.

 

 

Brown : I asume your trading style is "daytrading".... if that is the case you need more than one hour of session to get a decent trade completed...

 

For a "scalper" as I am, a trade may be 2 or 3 min long and your targets for the day may be met... so 1 hour gives you plenty trade oportunities.

 

So the 1 hour strategy I think is more suited for scalping.... and would not be proper on a day trading style... cheers Walter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brown : I asume your trading style is "daytrading".... if that is the case you need more than one hour of session to get a decent trade completed...

 

For a "scalper" as I am, a trade may be 2 or 3 min long and your targets for the day may be met... so 1 hour gives you plenty trade oportunities.

 

So the 1 hour strategy I think is more suited for scalping.... and would not be proper on a day trading style... cheers Walter.

 

I agree Walter. I am a 'daytrader' but not a scalper, that's for sure. All positions are exited by 4:15pm EST.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of random but related thoughts. I think there are very few 'regular' businesses that operate like this (finish at monetary target). I don't know of any that give there sales people the remainder of the month of when they have made there monthly goal!

 

I think it is valuable to set your 'normal' hours of work. Of course one of the great attractions of trading is the freedom and flexibility it affords. Despite this it appears a good idea to have some core guidelines to when you are going to do business, an important part of your trading plan.

 

It strikes me having a trade working at the close of play is quite similar to a normal business having a 'rush' on or taking an order that needs filling quickly - whatever. Work an extra hour or two and give the staff (you) a bonus or some time off in lieu!

 

With most of the trade management platforms out there its easy enough to leave a working order with a trailing stop and target. Though that might not suit some peoples style of trade management.

 

Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting thread here, I'll ad my .02

 

 

"Think to yourself, if you had twice or three times your normal size, I bet you would be darn well sure that the setup you take is the highest probability in your arsenal. You may find yourself not over trading and being alot more disciplined. (Of course you must have a solid trading plan and good setups first.)"

 

From my experience I have found that it completely depends on the trader. Typically, a trader has some range of contract sizes in which he/she is comfortable trading, ie one guy might trade between 1 and 5 contracts, and another guy might trade between 5 and 50 contracts.

 

An even more interesting question to pose is, what does your P/L look like when you trade x number of contracts in relation to what it looks like when you trade y number of contracts? Why do you trade the size you trade when you trade it? What makes you want to trade a 10 lot instead of a 5. What is the difference in times when you trade 6 lots and 8 lots, etc... Is it tied to confidence, and are you taking the exact same signals for each size incrememt, or are you rather assigning different lot sizes to different types of trades or market situations?

 

Have a look at the attached document. I've included examples of 3 different traders. Each trader is a unique story and each shows varying results with different-sized trades.

 

The left column represents the number of trades he did at that contract size and the right column represents his P/L per contract traded in the designated increment.

 

The last example shows in addition, the average shape of his trade in each contract size. This graphic shows a view values: profit opportunity (in $), risk taken in the trade (in $), avg. P/L, avg. time in trade.

 

If I am these traders, I want to find out as much about the instances in which I trade different sized contracts so that I can avoid trading sizes that have traditionally caused losses. For instance, if I have poor performance trading 5-lots, I want to find out as much as possible about my 5-lot trades (why i trade 5's, when i trade 5's, etc...)

Quantity Examples.doc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest BigWallStreet

To answer all the Q's...

 

There's a time to go big, and time to go small.

 

BigWallStreet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Great News: - starting from today minimum deposit is ONLY 10$ (use ENTER10 code) - Deposit using Cryptocurrencies or Fiat Money (12 Cryptocurrencies + Credit / Debit Cards, Bank Transfer & Many eWallets options) 50$ No Deposit Bonus STILL Available & Daily 250$ Free Entry Trading Tournament USA Customers Welcome https://binaryoptionsprofits.eu/review/pocket-option/ Make up to 128% Profit / Trade Every 60 Seconds!
    • $SPY (SPY) S&P 500 ETF top of range breakout watch above 294.92,analysis https://stockconsultant.com/?SPY
    • Date : 24th April 2019. MACRO EVENTS & NEWS OF 24th April 2019.FX News Today Australia’s bond as well as stock markets rallied after inflation came in lowerthan anticipated at 0.0% q/q, down from 0.5% in the previous period and versus median expectations of 0.1%. Markets are convinced that the inflation miss will make a rate cut all but inevitable and 10-year yields plunged 10.5 bp, while the ASX jumped as much as 1.1% to a more than 11 year high, after already outperforming yesterday. Elsewhere in Asia markets were under pressure, however, despite the strong close on Wall Street, where sentiment was boosted by upbeat earnings reports. The USA500 and USA100 closed at record highs Tuesday Twitter stock surged more than 15% on earnings beat, while the Coca-Cola share price is up 2% as Q1 earnings revenue was $8.02 billion, topping projections of $7.88 billion. The concerns that China may slow the pace of policy easing and stimulus measures continue to weigh on sentiment. WTI oil softer today after surge to 6-mth high at $66.60 yesterday. Charts of the DayTechnician’s Corner USOIL softer at 66.00 hurdle after topping at a new nearly six-month high of $66.60. Overall, outlook holds to the upside as the asset is sloping within an uptrend, with small corrections to the downside. USDJPY has continued to oscillate in a narrow range in the 111.75-112.00 area. The focus this week will be on fresh signs that corroborate the return-to-growth picture in major global economies. A continuation of this theme would be supportive of currencies that performer with higher beta characteristics, such as the Dollar bloc units, while currencies of the low-yielding safe haven type, such as the Yen, would be apt to underperform. USDJPY has Support at 111.54-111.60, levels which encompass the prevailing position of the 200-day moving average. AUDUSD dove to 0.7026, just a breath above 3-year Support. It was driven by Aussie-specific losses following sub forecast CPI data out of Australia, which catalysed calls for the RBA to cut interest rates at its next policy review in May. A break of 0.7000 could open the way towards a December slip. Main Macro Events Today IFO (EUR, GMT 08:00) – Business climate in the largest EU country is expected to have grown marginally to 99.9 compared to 99.6 last month. Event of the week – BoC Interest Rate Decision (CAD, GMT 14:00) – At the BoC meeting, consensus expectations are that there should be no interest rate change. A sharper and more broadly based slowdown in the domestic economy, alongside a slowing in the global economy that has been more pronounced and widespread than anticipated saw the Bank state “the outlook continues to warrant a policy interest rate that is below its neutral range.” Support and Resistance Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.Click HERE to access the full HotForex Economic calendar.Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HotForex Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date : 24th April 2019. MACRO EVENTS & NEWS OF 24th April 2019.FX News Today Australia’s bond as well as stock markets rallied after inflation came in lowerthan anticipated at 0.0% q/q, down from 0.5% in the previous period and versus median expectations of 0.1%. Markets are convinced that the inflation miss will make a rate cut all but inevitable and 10-year yields plunged 10.5 bp, while the ASX jumped as much as 1.1% to a more than 11 year high, after already outperforming yesterday. Elsewhere in Asia markets were under pressure, however, despite the strong close on Wall Street, where sentiment was boosted by upbeat earnings reports. The USA500 and USA100 closed at record highs Tuesday Twitter stock surged more than 15% on earnings beat, while the Coca-Cola share price is up 2% as Q1 earnings revenue was $8.02 billion, topping projections of $7.88 billion. The concerns that China may slow the pace of policy easing and stimulus measures continue to weigh on sentiment. WTI oil softer today after surge to 6-mth high at $66.60 yesterday. Charts of the DayTechnician’s Corner USOIL softer at 66.00 hurdle after topping at a new nearly six-month high of $66.60. Overall, outlook holds to the upside as the asset is sloping within an uptrend, with small corrections to the downside. USDJPY has continued to oscillate in a narrow range in the 111.75-112.00 area. The focus this week will be on fresh signs that corroborate the return-to-growth picture in major global economies. A continuation of this theme would be supportive of currencies that performer with higher beta characteristics, such as the Dollar bloc units, while currencies of the low-yielding safe haven type, such as the Yen, would be apt to underperform. USDJPY has Support at 111.54-111.60, levels which encompass the prevailing position of the 200-day moving average. AUDUSD dove to 0.7026, just a breath above 3-year Support. It was driven by Aussie-specific losses following sub forecast CPI data out of Australia, which catalysed calls for the RBA to cut interest rates at its next policy review in May. A break of 0.7000 could open the way towards a December slip. Main Macro Events Today IFO (EUR, GMT 08:00) – Business climate in the largest EU country is expected to have grown marginally to 99.9 compared to 99.6 last month. Event of the week – BoC Interest Rate Decision (CAD, GMT 14:00) – At the BoC meeting, consensus expectations are that there should be no interest rate change. A sharper and more broadly based slowdown in the domestic economy, alongside a slowing in the global economy that has been more pronounced and widespread than anticipated saw the Bank state “the outlook continues to warrant a policy interest rate that is below its neutral range.” Support and Resistance Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.Click HERE to access the full HotForex Economic calendar.Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HotForex Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • DASH trading: The Bears Head Towards a Critical Support, a Break or Reversal?   DASH Price Analysis – April 23 After April short position, DASH market had been following a bearish sentiment. Crossing down the 200-day MA, DASH/BTC nears a key support level of 0.022 BTC. Despite the fall, the 200-day MA still acts as a defensive line for DASH/USD pair. However, both markets respect a falling channel.   DASH/USD Market Key Levels: Resistance levels: $135, $145 Support levels: $115, $100   The price of DASH had been falling for the past weeks due to the selling pressure in the market. As a result of this, the market has been down by roughly 18% as price currently trades at $123 level. The volatility of the cryptocurrency appeared low with choppy price action.   Following the medium-term bearish correction, DASH is still respecting the bulls’ defensive line; the 200-day moving average line (yellow). Meanwhile, the $125 price level has been holding the bulls for the past twelve days. A successful breach might take price to $130.   As shown on the RSI, the trend is positioned at 56.8 level. The next major resistance is at $135 level which is outside the channel. A bearish move could slump price to $115support.   DASH/BTC Market While staying above the important 200-day moving average line (yellow) in late March, DASH price rose to the peak of 0.029 BTC high before plunging in a channel. Testing the yellow line on April 12, a significant break has further led the bears far below the yellow line.   Currently, the cryptocurrency head towards the March support at 0.022 BTC level. At the test of the mentioned support, a possible bounce up may occur for a bullish reversal. If a bounce up fails, a break down could further the trend in a more bearish condition.   The medium-term RSI is now trending below the 50 level after the price drop on April 1. A successful break up could kick-start a bull-run at 0.024 BTC resistance level, testing the important yellow line.     Please note: insidebitcoins.com is not a financial advisor. Do your own research before investing your funds in any financial asset or presented product or event. We are not responsible for your investing results.     How to trade Bitcoin successfully:  https://insidebitcoins.com/trading/bitcoin       Best cryptos exchanges:  https://insidebitcoins.com/cryptocurrency-exchanges  
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.