Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

com37

I Am Not Rich ! Do I Have a Place in Trading?

Recommended Posts

I am just thinking I dont have that much to spend in trading yet I have the courage to try. I am just afraid I'd fail.

 

If you are afraid to fail; you probably will.

 

Open an account and trade in simulation mode for several months... see what you think (cost you next to nothing... a maintenance fee and software rental). And by the way, be honest while doing it. If you can't get profitable in simulation you will never be profitable trading live.

 

In short: save that money that you can't afford to lose for now, get some experience and figure out how you would chose to exploit the market. If you can get to that place, then ask yourself..."Am I afraid to fail".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you are afraid to fail; you probably will.

 

Open an account and trade in simulation mode for several months... see what you think (cost you next to nothing... a maintenance fee and software rental). And by the way, be honest while doing it. If you can't get profitable in simulation you will never be profitable trading live.

 

In short: save that money that you can't afford to lose for now, get some experience and figure out how you would chose to exploit the market. If you can get to that place, then ask yourself..."Am I afraid to fail".

 

thank you for your kind suggestion :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am just thinking I dont have that much to spend in trading yet I have the courage to try. I am just afraid I'd fail.

 

Not rich? Join the club :)

 

You should try to be realistic about what you expect to achieve. A 10% return each year is perfectly acceptable. 20% is very good. And 30% theoretically places you amongst the elite performing hedge funds. If you think you're going to be quadrupling your money every month then forget it.

 

Secondly, realize that position sizing is one of the main factors in growing your account. Assuming you need to double your account before you can double your position size, then there is going to be a long wait before you can increase your position size if you're trading something that costs a lot of money (like a leveraged futures contract). You need to trade something with less value so that once your account has increased by, say, just 1%, you can increase your position size by 1% (as opposed to waiting until your account has increased by 100% to increase your position size by 100% because you can't by 1% chunks of a contract). In my opinion this "granularity" is absolutely essential if you want to grow a small account.

 

Hope that helps!

 

BlueHorseshoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In trading, being right is and always has been more important than being big/rich.

 

You should know, however, that barring divine intervention or spontaneous intellectual combustion, it WILL take some money, a lot of time and effort and even with years of effort your odds of ever making long term profits are greater than 20 to 1 against.

 

Few have the stamina for a trail that often includes years of disappointment and even fewer have the instinct or intellectual capacity to even have a chance at long term success.

 

There is nothing that says that you can't be one of the few. But before you embark you should consider who the very, very few are that make all the money and their level of experience and resource.

 

The competition for every dollar of trading profit is fierce. Your competition is not the posters on this or any other forum, it is the traders in high tech trading rooms and organizations like Goldman who are backed by legions of engineers, software developers, banks of servers and billions of dollars.

 

The odds of anyone spending a few months reading books and forums and practicing with a few thousand dollars worth of hardware, data and software and succeeding are way worse than 100 to 1 against.

 

 

UrmaBlume

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am just thinking I dont have that much to spend in trading yet I have the courage to try. I am just afraid I'd fail.

 

If you are afraid you will definitely fall. The fear of losing is the major factor of losing in financial markets. The best thing you can spare some funds which you can afford to lose and put it in trading and trade with those funds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As jpennybags mentioned, you should definitely check out market simulation software. There are actually a lot of online stock market games that are completely free. While there are a myriad of free ones, one place to start is Market Watch's Virtual Stock Exchange Games (VSE). Good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, it is possible to make money in trading. Some people have actually made millions trading in markets day in day out.

 

Thank you - Voice of Trading.

Let's all act as if com37 is still active in this thread ... 3 years later... here goes ...

 

I am just thinking I dont have that much to spend in trading yet I have the courage to try. I am just afraid I'd fail.

 

circa 7/11/16 not /13

 

If you are afraid to fail; you probably will.

If you are not afraid to fail; you probably will.

... “afraid” is irrelevant.

 

If you do not ‘fail’, you will certainly not ever ‘succeed’

"What has been universal of those who have succeeded is: the ability to endure. Unfortunately, it’s a law: if you just persist, you can have poor methods and even half ass intentions and still succeed. No short-cuts, as everyone must pay their dues, but you can facilitate success by never quitting." Scott Sonnon

 

and Re: “Courage”

Excellent choice of words! Do you really have courage?

( btw: answer that internally ... not up in this fkn place :))

Do you have the necessary courage to consciously give up / alter your attitudes?

 

“Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can’t practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but none of them consistently without courage.” Maya Angelou

 

“ courage is the catalyst for all change. To

modify any behavior or situation, it demands that you

courageously adopt and repeat an uncomfortable shift in a

pattern. ...”

 

Courage is derived from the Latin cor; meaning “the heart enabling the ability to face difficulty.” Feel entirely uncertain of the outcome of your impending trade, but still act courageously and face the challenge of unpredictable results. The courage to face the unknown itself can empower you.

 

( btw - you cannot adequately simulate the necessary realities via 'sim' trading. Sim is masturbation. Get real out the fkn gate (yes a real account - if nothing else a tiny little Oanda acct)... that is - if you have the courage... Later, when you know what you need to practice, then you can include sim for highly structured practice... )

 

courage is a ‘first step’, but it is essentially an oppositional advance. Ultimately you must truly reframe your potential to what you have not imagined yet ... beyond what you have previously and are defining yourself currently... NO one else can tell you if you "have a place in trading."

 

When you can authentically smile on your mistakes, your failures, your losses - in real time... then you’re getting ready to succeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, seeing how most words of advice and encouragement have already been given here, what I'd like to ask is you to keep us informed what decision you've made and how's your first trades going. :2c:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all, trading is not for rich or wealthy people. as a matter of fact, the ends of trading is to build wealth. Also, Courage and being afraid are not tools or basic requirement for trading. you need KNOWLEDGE of trading. because entering the market with courage or fear will not help you except you know how and what to trade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

re: "First of all, trading is not for rich or wealthy people. as a matter of fact, the ends of trading is to build wealth."

Yes ultimately the activities of the wealthy trends towards wealth preservation. However, absolute levels of wealth is never the determinant of how hungry a person stays and how much he or she continues to ‘trade’. Every few months or years the wealthy people I know share clever trades they just got into... and later they tell me when they get out of them. ie they never stop trading. Ie they never stop “building wealth”.

Note cuspers! ---- They do it with their imaginations ... not via trading methods or “KNOWLEDGE”

... Ultimately such trading, investing, wealth preservation allocations develop into a study of exposure.

 

 

re: "Also, Courage and being afraid are not tools or basic requirement for trading. you need KNOWLEDGE of trading. because entering the market with courage or fear will not help you except you know how and what to trade."

 

I have no idea what your Golden C is selling but that “KNOWLEDGE” crap is a trap. Beginners in ANY performance work/game should avoid getting knowledge at first. Rather they should get a feel for what the game has for them and what they have to bring to the game from within. The knowledge and skills they need to develop will quickly become apparent. Contrary to what the voice of trading’s vendor lie erroneouslyrepeats a gazillion times over - “KNOWLEDGE” is not what they need before beginning. Over 80 legitimate learning theories have been developed - yet the voice of trading vendors still keep coming back trying to sell beginners programs that are essentially repeats of elementary school in a system that uses a failed model.

...and both send students out into the world believing they are prepared and have relevant “KNOWLEDGE” but they are not at all really prepared to perform ...

Follow the suggested voices of trading’s path and very likely, the only “KNOWLEDGE” you will end up with is the “KNOWLEDGE” you have the wrong “KNOWLEDGE”

I thank god almost every day the fkn 90 yr old voice of trading is finally dying...

 

The depths to which beginning traders must delve into ‘knowledge’ will unfold later as they develop. Cramming some random ‘knowledge’ into their brains before they get their bodies involved is a big fkn counterproductive waste of time. ... and is only beneficial to the professional educators like they got stuck with in elementary school... (Like you? What are you selling, dbelov?)

 

Noobs (and yes this is a noob thread) - just trade. You likely already have a vision of what and how you want to trade. Do that. Yep - Do that with real trades.

 

And - yes, that vision will have to be corrected...

and - yes, it will cost you dearly...

and - yes, it will most likely involve failures... and pains.

But noob, you are sufficiently intelligent and self-correcting to find out what you need to master as you go along ... and when the time is right, suddenly, you will know precisely what you need to know - and only then - you can look for the right teacher of the appropriate “KNOWLEDGE”...

:haha: ... that is if you have the COURAGE and PERSISTENCE .

 

Noobs, the ‘voice of trading’ assumes you are starting at the first cusp. Most people buy that and do start at the first cusp and never go any further. I’m telling you something the ‘voice of trading’ by rule cannot tell you. You can immediately go to the second cusp and work there until you get into the top tier...

... that is if you have the COURAGE and PERSISTENCE.:rofl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Experience trumps knowledge every time...

 

So called "knowledge" which is what can be transferred from one brain to another, involves the use of words as images (and the use of images as words). A writer can have a masterful knowledge of his or her language, but still come up woefully short in the transference of an idea; some may realize the intent, and some may not; for some they will find themselves led astray by nothing other than life experience and bias (for some an inadequate understanding of the language). This the problem with structured learning in trading, and moreover the so called "voice of trading" technique of do-this-do-that is that it just doesn't work in the real time... with your brain, temperament, and skills.

 

Sorry guys... there is no easy out. I don't intend to leave the impression that I'm opposed to learning from others, but the real work comes from within; time is knowledge, and knowledge is time. Experience comes through the time of living in your own skin, and knowledge comes from the experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You put it in a kind of a sad way. Like is there really no use for a theoreticall knowledge?

 

Possibly I've been misunderstood...

 

The application of empirical knowledge in trading is a necessary part of the learning process; otherwise we as chimps would have to reinvent the use of the stick as a tool for gathering ants in each generation. Some things work; some things don't. In practical matters “monkey-see-monkey-do” is a straight forward way of learning what works, but until this knowledge is brought into application by the student, the student will not understand what doesn't work and can only then begin to build theory as to why one way is better (more successful) than another. At the start it's “ants good / stick gets ants”. From there it should progress to what size stick; how long to leave stick in hole; straight stick or crooked stick. Consider this “learning to trade”. Then you toss in the “human condition” and all of the impracticality, emotions, fears, bias, and utter bullshit that makes us who we are as individuals… you are no longer dealing with the simple task of licking ants off of a stick, you are faced with human drama that just gets in the way of feeding yourself.

 

Theory is good, application of theory is far more complex. For someone trading in the greater time frames theory can be applied with some success. For those trading in the lesser time frames theory must give way to intuition to some extent. Success in trading the lesser time frames is far more dependent on gut feel than in trading the greater time frames. The time frame that one finds success is largely dictated on personality and not desire; a square peg won't fit a round hole.

 

These are all complex matters, as we are complex persons (egos), and to tell a beginning trader to start here and go there is well: “a bunch of gawd damned foolishness”. Experience is the best teacher, but empirical knowledge has it's place. A beginning trader should take the time and the bitter consequences of groping in the dark. This simple act of relying on your own wits will foster a knowledge of what needs to come next, and it will come from a place that is deep enough that can affect change. It's about adapting and building these skills (mental pathways) that will (may) bring success.

 

We do so much, get in our own way. Learning to deal with that aspect is a large part of finding success; not for a week or a month, but in the long term.

 

My opinion... nothing more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess trading is for everyone however earning from it requires hard work and patience too. It can be started with small amount in your free time anywhere from the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

of course, trading is not for only rich people, i mean brokers like lmfx offer premium accounts as low as 50 USD with enough hard work you can turn it to 200-500 in a couple of months, as long as you have a good internet connection and a decent pc.. I started with 150 anyway. and made my way up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
of course, trading is not for only rich people, i mean brokers like lmfx offer premium accounts as low as 50 USD with enough hard work you can turn it to 200-500 in a couple of months, as long as you have a good internet connection and a decent pc.. I started with 150 anyway. and made my way up.

 

Hm, how rare is it to succeed with such a small account in your opinion? Can most traders do this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is no easy to handle small account for any one but if some one can not afford big amount he has no choice. But few people can make big amount with small amount, there are so many traders. But this is not true for every trader.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is no easy to handle small account for any one but if some one can not afford big amount he has no choice. But few people can make big amount with small amount, there are so many traders. But this is not true for every trader.

 

Is it because of a small overall win-rate, or because of some specifics of trading with small accounts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hm, how rare is it to succeed with such a small account in your opinion? Can most traders do this?

 

yes its rare, yes its not easy, but i have blown a good share of micro/premium accounts, and continued starting over with small amounts like 100-150 usd with hotforex, its not big but i treated it as a small side bet along the line that i work on when i have free time, after a couple of years that small account went from 3 digit to 4 digit, and the learning process continues and so on, dont rush things, never rush anything actually, keep the goal with in small manageble numbers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yes its rare, yes its not easy, but i have blown a good share of micro/premium accounts, and continued starting over with small amounts like 100-150 usd with hotforex, its not big but i treated it as a small side bet along the line that i work on when i have free time, after a couple of years that small account went from 3 digit to 4 digit, and the learning process continues and so on, dont rush things, never rush anything actually, keep the goal with in small manageble numbers.

 

So basically the smaller your account is, the more slow approach it requires?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • USD/JPY IS REACHING BEARISH EXHAUSTION, MAY REVERSE AT LEVEL 103.23 Key Resistance Levels: 111.000, 112.000, 113.000 Key Support Levels: 104.000, 103.000, 102.000 USD/JPY Price Long-term Trend: Bearish The USD/JPY pair has been in a downward move since November 12 after a rebound above level 103.30. The pair is approaching the previous support at level 103.30. The selling pressure will resume if the current is broken. The Yen will resume an upward move if the support holds. USD/JPY – Daily Chart Daily Chart Indicators Reading: The 21-day SMA and the 50-day SMA are sloping downward indicating the downtrend. The pair has fallen to level 40 of the Relative Strength Index period 14. The pair is in the downtrend zone and capable of falling. USD/JPY Medium-term Trend: Bearish On the 4-hour chart, the pair has been in a downward move after rejection at 105.00. On November 18 downtrend; a retraced candle body tested the 78.6% Fibonacci retracement level. This indicates that the market will fall to level 1.272 Fibonacci extensions. That is the Yen will reach the low of level 103.23 and reverse. USD/JPY – 4 Hour Chart 4-hour Chart Indicators Reading The USD/JPY pair is currently above the 25% range of the daily stochastic. It indicates that the pair is in a bullish momentum. The SMAs are sloping downward indicating the downtrend. General Outlook for USD/JPY USD/JPY has been on a downward move but the selling pressure is reaching bearish exhaustion. According to the Fibonacci tool analysis, the Yen will fall and reverse at level 103.23. Source: https://learn2.trade 
    • EURJPY BEARISH MOMENTUM REMAINS TOWARD 123.00 LEVEL EURJPY Price Analysis – November 20 The EURJPY pair is attempting to close beneath the 123.37 price zone as speculative interest stays trapped between coronavirus outbreaks and vaccine hopes. The pairs selling momentum remains toward the 123.00 level. Key Levels Resistance Levels: 127.07, 125.00, 123.37 Support Levels: 122.37, 121.61, 119.31 EURJPY Long term Trend: Ranging As seen in the daily time frame, the downside pressure is expected to accelerate if EURJPY breaks below the 123.00 support, exposing the ascending trendline support and the 122.37 low. Meanwhile, the moving average 5 and 13 stays mixed for a range in the coming sessions. If the 123.00 support holds, a surge towards the 123.40 level could be expected during the following trading session. However, a barrier around the MA 13 could serve as a limitation for bullish traders within this session. Lower here a firm breach of 119.31 level will argue that the rise from 114.42 level has completed and turned the focus back lower. EURJPY Short term Trend: Ranging The intraday bias in EURJPY is staying in consolidation with the current recovery. A much more decline is mildly in consideration with 123.37 minor resistance level intact. Beneath the 122.37 level will target a test on the 121.61 low level initially. The resolute breach there may restart the trend from 127.07 level with another decline to 119.31 key support level. On the upside, though, a breach of 123.37 minor resistance level may shift sentiment back to the upside for the 125.00 level instead. Source: https://learn2.trade 
    • Let’s skim some features of Dominion from the manual 1. Dominion is a black box with votes ultimately tabulated in a central server system. Who has access to the central server and where is the manual and security reviews of that server software? 2. Local IT can clandestinely change settings to potentially alter an entire election. There are no checks and balances or observers of the local IT guy when he accesses machine debug and admin settings. Its unclear if a log exists. 3. Many complex rules decide how the “straight ticket” option works, but he system can be set up to ignore votes for individuals if a straight ticket vote is selected. 4. Network Security is very weak since all software access keys use the same cryptographic pair. This gives plausible deniability to whoever potentially decides to mess around with voting settings. It cant be proven who changed a setting since everybody has the same key 5. Digital certificates are not protected by password, and Dominion user manual explicitly says not to enter a password. This enables potential for bad actors to MITM attack data traveling over network between precinct tabulator and central tabulator. 6. Cryptic “split rotation” function that features the ability to “force a maximum deviation”. There is no definition of a “split rotation”, so we cannot know what “force a maximum deviation” means in this instance. 7. Settings can be changed during evening downtime on first night of voting. Much easier to change settings on hundreds of machines than to forge thousands of ballots. A couple of people can do it quickly. 8. The word “Cast” became “Print”, obfuscating the moment when your vote becomes officially cast. Reason for the semantic changes requested by the State of Pennsylvania to the Dominion voting software is currently unknown. 9. There is an option to force the vote scanner to “overrun” a preset amount of ballots every time anybody pauses the scan mid-batch. “Overrun” is undefined. Potential for abuse is high with this function, which was added shortly after 2018 mid-term elections.   ... Americans have a bad and chronic case of “it can’t happen here” ... I'm just sayin'  
    • “The press in our free country is reliable and useful not because of its good character but because of its great diversity. As long as there are many owners, each pursuing his own brand of truth, we the people have the opportunity to arrive at the truth and to dwell in the light. The multiplicity of ownership is crucial. It’s only when there are a few owners, or, as in a government-controlled press, one owner, that the truth becomes elusive and the light fails. For a citizen in our free society, it is was an enormous privilege and a wonderful protection to have access to hundreds of periodicals, each peddling its own belief. There is safety in numbers: the papers expose each other’s follies and peccadillos, correct each other’s mistakes, and cancel out each other’s biases. The reader is was free to range around in the whole editorial bouillabaisse and explore it for the one clam that matters—the truth.”  E. B. White That is gone. And social media is blatantly censoring free expression of viewpoints. ... But,. more insidious than top down media censorship is self censorship.  ... fear of being ‘cancelled’ socially "Media censorship is a shift in the flow of information, while self-censorship is a shift in consciousness. It is the dangerous cornerstone of group-think."  Dylan Thomas     just saying
    • Exchange, supply and demand on them and of course arbitrage between exchanges and starting from recently derivative instruments like CFDs on bitmex 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.