Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

shane

Can Anyone Explain Margin In Laymans Terms... Please :)

Recommended Posts

Hello, I have been day trading for under a year... I use Interactive Brokers but I usually only get to trade one or two days during each week because Once I use my cash, I cannot use it again until it clears which takes 3 or 4 days.

 

I do not use margin, but I've been reading about it. I'm assuming that if I signup as a margin account, I will then be able to double the money I have to use for trades?

 

(1) Lets say I have $30,000 cash account. If I signup for a margin account, will I then be able to trade with $60,000? Thus allowing me to trade more than one or two days per week?

 

(2) If I close all positions before the end of each day, do I still have to pay interests on the margin money? (I ask because I read an article that seemed to say that).

 

(3) Do any of you use a margin account, and if so, do you feel like sharing any pros and cons?

 

basically I feel like I'm doing pretty good with my trades overall, but just not making a lot of money because I enter and exit pretty quickly with low amounts of shares (100 - 300). If I had more, I could jump back in at the next reversal or just in general trade on more days than just one or two.

 

Well thanks for any advice and I look forward to being a member of this forum. I just foudn it today and I have spent hours reading through it already! lol. Im about to go eat finally. LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For any broker - best to seek out there own words.

Margin

 

Once you switch to a margin account - if your trading STOCKS - if you borrow money to purchase a stock - you will pay interest. I am not sure when IB charges it - there rates are low (money is cheap right now...right?).

 

Regarding specifics - you can borrow up to 50% of the price of the security to purchase on margin. And you must maintain adleast 25% of the total market value of the securities you own within the margin account. (So if you have a portfolio worth 200K, you need to have adleast 50K in the account). If your a pattern day trader - you need to have at the bare minimum 25K in the account or 25% of portfolio - whichever is greater.

 

So...if your looking for advice...I would tell you - forget the above. Dont trade on margin. Wait until you have 2 or 3 years of success under your belt.

 

The reason your not making alot of money has NOTHING to do with not trading on margin. It has to do with either too early profit targets, too late of stop exits, or poor trade selection. There are a tremendous amount of very successful traders who trade unleveraged. If you want to leverage up - adleast get some solid success in the rear view mirror. Otherwise you are just asking to be blotted out quicker than the usual wash out rate.

 

Remember...this is a profession. You don't start skiing on double diamonds or chutes in Jackson Hole. You start on the bunny hill. Enjoy the experience.

 

Good luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Margin is a loan from the broker to buy stocks. Margin is also a percentage of notional value you need to deposit to trade a futures contract or a forex lot.

 

I try to avoid using margin as much as possible because if things go bad traders on margin lose everything they have made for many months or years in just one day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone who treats trading as a business would want to multiply their efforts as quickly as possible. There is no other liquid business in the world that allows the amount of leverage that stocks/futures/forex/etc derivatives offer. So with a successful trading strategy, I wouldn't see a reason NOT to use the extra buying power to scale as much as the mechanical limits allow.

 

Sure you can just run one restaurant all the time. But why not have two restaurants? 4? 10? etc if you could afford it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyone who treats trading as a business would want to multiply their efforts as quickly as possible. There is no other liquid business in the world that allows the amount of leverage that stocks/futures/forex/etc derivatives offer. So with a successful trading strategy, I wouldn't see a reason NOT to use the extra buying power to scale as much as the mechanical limits allow..

 

If you do not see a reason now see what happened in 2008 when investors on margin, not even traders, were liquidated just before the market bottom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello, I have been day trading for under a year... I use Interactive Brokers but I usually only get to trade one or two days during each week because Once I use my cash, I cannot use it again until it clears which takes 3 or 4 days.

 

I do not use margin, but I've been reading about it. I'm assuming that if I signup as a margin account, I will then be able to double the money I have to use for trades?

 

Theoretically yes. Assuming you are talking about stock trades, you may have double the money (or 4x if you're a pattern day trader).

 

Other markets may have their own leverage system so for now we're only talking about stocks.

 

(1) Lets say I have $30,000 cash account. If I signup for a margin account, will I then be able to trade with $60,000?

 

Yes. Your account will say something like this:

 

Cash balance: $30,000

Buying Power (non-Margin): $30,000

Buying Power (Margin): $60,000

 

These values may change depending on if you currently have any positions. Different stocks may require different levels.

 

If you do more than 3 round trips in a week and your account gets labeled as a pattern day trader, you may get 4x margin.

 

Thus allowing me to trade more than one or two days per week?

 

A margin account lets you bypass the waiting period for funds to become available.

 

(2) If I close all positions before the end of each day, do I still have to pay interests on the margin money? (I ask because I read an article that seemed to say that).

 

No.

 

(3) Do any of you use a margin account, and if so, do you feel like sharing any pros and cons?

 

I have 2x margin in my account (I don't day trade stocks) but I don't actually use the margin, it's just there because I happen to have a margin account.

 

Keep in mind that just because you have margin doesn't mean you have to use it. In the example you gave with a $30,000 account, even if you have a margin account and they give you $60,000 buying power, as long as you don't buy more than $30,000 worth of stock you won't be using margin and you won't be charged any interest.

 

basically I feel like I'm doing pretty good with my trades overall, but just not making a lot of money because I enter and exit pretty quickly with low amounts of shares (100 - 300). If I had more, I could jump back in at the next reversal or just in general trade on more days than just one or two.

 

Correct, it would be available immediately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks a lot 1a2b3cppp! and everyone else as well for all of the input.

 

There is obviously a lot of pros and cons to using margin. Im glad I asked the question.

 

I was about to just stay away from it, but now after 1a2b3cppp's comment, I'm interested again. lol. :) I'm on a roller coaster...

 

 

One person replied with the following, "if things go bad traders on margin lose everything they have made for many months or years in just one day"

 

So let me ask a follow up question...

 

- Assume this scenario: I'm day trading stocks only, and closing out all positions before the end of the day.... and on bad trades, Im selling off the stocks for a small loss before the price falls too far...

 

My question: Wouldn't the broker just take back the money that was loaned? and therefore basically just close positions? lets say you bought 100 shares of ABC stock for $25. then that day The broker forces you to close positions.. You dont lose all the money right? if the stock was selling at $24, then you basically just lose $100, right? If that is correct, it doesn't seem that bad of a deal.

 

Am i understanding correctly yet? :)

 

Thanks again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 18th April 2024. Market News – Stock markets benefit from Dollar correction. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Technical buying, bargain hunting, and risk aversion helped Treasuries rally and unwind recent losses. Yields dropped from the recent 2024 highs. Asian stock markets strengthened, as the US Dollar corrected in the wake of comments from Japan’s currency chief Masato Kanda, who said G7 countries continue to stress that excessive swings and disorderly moves in the foreign exchange market were harmful for economies. US Stockpiles expanded to 10-month high. The data overshadowed the impact of geopolitical tensions in the Middle East as traders await Israel’s response to Iran’s unprecedented recent attack. President Joe Biden called for higher tariffs on imports of Chinese steel and aluminum.   Financial Markets Performance:   The USDIndex stumbled, falling to 105.66 at the end of the day from the intraday high of 106.48. It lost ground against most of its G10 peers. There wasn’t much on the calendar to provide new direction. USDJPY lows retesting the 154 bottom! NOT an intervention yet. BoJ/MoF USDJPY intervention happens when there is more than 100+ pip move in seconds, not 50 pips. USOIL slumped by 3% near $82, as US crude inventories rose by 2.7 million barrels last week, hitting the highest level since last June, while gauges of fuel demand declined. Gold strengthened as the dollar weakened and bullion is trading at $2378.44 per ounce. Market Trends:   Wall Street closed in the red after opening with small corrective gains. The NASDAQ underperformed, slumping -1.15%, with the S&P500 -0.58% lower, while the Dow lost -0.12. The Nikkei closed 0.2% higher, the Hang Seng gained more than 1. European and US futures are finding buyers. A gauge of global chip stocks and AI bellwether Nvidia Corp. have both fallen into a technical correction. The TMSC reported its first profit rise in a year, after strong AI demand revived growth at the world’s biggest contract chipmaker. The main chipmaker to Apple Inc. and Nvidia Corp. recorded a 9% rise in net income, beating estimates. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 17th April 2024. Market News – Appetite for risk-taking remains weak. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks, Treasury yields and US Dollar stay firmed. Fed Chair Powell added to the recent sell off. His slightly more hawkish tone further priced out chances for any imminent action and the timing of a cut was pushed out further. He suggested if higher inflation does persist, the Fed will hold rates steady “for as long as needed.” Implied Fed Fund: There remains no real chance for a move on May 1 and at their intraday highs the June implied funds rate future showed only 5 bps, while July reflected only 10 bps. And a full 25 bps was not priced in until November, with 38 bps in cuts seen for 2024. US & EU Economies Diverging: Lagarde says ECB is moving toward rate cuts – if there are no major shocks. UK March CPI inflation falls less than expected. Output price inflation has started to nudge higher, despite another decline in input prices. Together with yesterday’s higher than expected wage numbers, the data will add to the arguments of the hawks at the BoE, which remain very reluctant to contemplate rate cuts. Canada CPI rose 0.6% in March, double the 0.3% February increase BUT core eased. The doors are still open for a possible cut at the next BoC meeting on June 5. IMF revised up its global growth forecast for 2024 with inflation easing, in its new World Economic Outlook. This is consistent with a global soft landing, according to the report. Financial Markets Performance:   USDJPY also inched up to 154.67 on expectations the BoJ will remain accommodative and as the market challenges a perceived 155 red line for MoF intervention. USOIL prices slipped -0.15% to $84.20 per barrel. Gold rose 0.24% to $2389.11 per ounce, a new record closing high as geopolitical risks overshadowed the impacts of rising rates and the stronger dollar. Market Trends:   Wall Street waffled either side of unchanged on the day amid dimming rate cut potential, rising yields, and earnings. The major indexes closed mixed with the Dow up 0.17%, while the S&P500 and NASDAQ lost -0.21% and -0.12%, respectively. Asian stock markets mostly corrected again, with Japanese bourses underperforming and the Nikkei down -1.3%. Mainland China bourses were a notable exception and the CSI 300 rallied 1.4%, but the MSCI Asia Pacific index came close to erasing the gains for this year. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.vvvvvvv
    • Date: 16th April 2024. Market News – Stocks and currencies sell off; USD up. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks and currencies sell off, while the US Dollar picks up haven flows. Treasuries yields spiked again to fresh 2024 peaks before paring losses into the close, post, the stronger than expected retail sales eliciting a broad sell off in the markets. Rates surged as the data pushed rate cut bets further into the future with July now less than a 50-50 chance. Wall Street finished with steep declines led by tech. Stocks opened in the green on a relief trade after Israel repulsed the well advertised attack from Iran on Sunday. But equities turned sharply lower and extended last week’s declines amid the rise in yields. Investor concerns were intensified as Israel threatened retaliation. There’s growing anxiety over earnings even after a big beat from Goldman Sachs. UK labor market data was mixed, as the ILO unemployment rate unexpectedly lifted, while wage growth came in higher than anticipated – The data suggests that the labor market is catching up with the recession. Mixed messages then for the BoE. China grew by 5.3% in Q1 however the numbers are causing a lot of doubts over sustainability of this growth. The bounce came in the first 2 months of the year. In March, growth in retail sales slumped and industrial output decelerated below forecasts, suggesting challenges on the horizon. Today: Germany ZEW, US housing starts & industrial production, Fed Vice Chair Philip Jefferson speech, BOE Bailey speech & IMF outlook. Earnings releases: Morgan Stanley and Bank of America. Financial Markets Performance:   The US Dollar rallied to 106.19 after testing 106.25, gaining against JPY and rising to 154.23, despite intervention risk. Yen traders started to see the 160 mark as the next Resistance level. Gold surged 1.76% to $2386 per ounce amid geopolitical risks and Chinese buying, even as the USD firmed and yields climbed. USOIL is flat at $85 per barrel. Market Trends:   Breaks of key technical levels exacerbated the sell off. Tech was the big loser with the NASDAQ plunging -1.79% to 15,885 while the S&P500 dropped -1.20% to 5061, with the Dow sliding -0.65% to 37,735. The S&P had the biggest 2-day sell off since March 2023. Nikkei and ASX lost -1.9% and -1.8% respectively, and the Hang Seng is down -2.1%. European bourses are down more than -1% and US futures are also in the red. CTA selling tsunami: “Just a few points lower CTAs will for the first time this year start selling in size, to add insult to injury, we are breaking major trend-lines in equities and the gamma stabilizer is totally gone.” Short term CTA threshold levels are kicking in big time according to GS. Medium term is 4873 (most important) while the long term level is at 4605. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 15th April 2024. Market News – Negative Reversion; Safe Havens Rally. Trading Leveraged Products is risky Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Markets weigh risk of retaliation cycle in Middle East. Initially the retaliatory strike from Iran on Israel fostered a haven bid, into bonds, gold and other haven assets, as it threatens a wider regional conflict. However, this morning, Oil and Asian equity markets were muted as traders shrugged off fears of a war escalation in the Middle East. Iran said “the matter can be deemed concluded”, and President Joe Biden has called on Israel to exercise restraint following Iran’s drone and missile strike, as part of Washington’s efforts to ease tensions in the Middle East and minimize the likelihood of a widespread regional conflict. New US and UK sanctions banned deliveries of Russian supplies, i.e. key industrial metals, produced after midnight on Friday. Aluminum jumped 9.4%, nickel rose 8.8%, suggesting brokers are bracing for major supply chain disruption. Financial Markets Performance:   The USDIndex fell back from highs over 106 to currently 105.70. The Yen dip against USD to 153.85. USOIL settled lower at 84.50 per barrel and Gold is trading below session highs at currently $2357.92 per ounce. Copper, more liquid and driven by the global economy over recent weeks, was more subdued this morning. Currently at $4.3180. Market Trends:   Asian stock markets traded mixed, but European and US futures are slightly higher after a tough session on Friday and yields have picked up. Mainland China bourses outperformed overnight, after Beijing offered renewed regulatory support. The PBOC meanwhile left the 1-year MLF rate unchanged, while once again draining funds from the system. Nikkei slipped 1% to 39,114.19. On Friday, NASDAQ slumped -1.62% to 16,175, unwinding most of Thursday’s 1.68% jump to a new all-time high at 16,442. The S&P500 fell -1.46% and the Dow dropped 1.24%. Declines were broadbased with all 11 sectors of the S&P finishing in the red. JPMorgan Chase sank 6.5% despite reporting stronger profit in Q1. The nation’s largest bank gave a forecast for a key source of income this year that fell below Wall Street’s estimate, calling for only modest growth. Apple shipments drop by 10% in Q1. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • The morning of my last post I happened to glance over to the side and saw “...angst over the FOMC’s rate trajectory triggered a flight to safety, hence boosting the haven demand. “   http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/topic/21621-hfmarkets-hfmcom-market-analysis-services/page/17/?tab=comments#comment-228522   I reacted, but didn’t take time to  respond then... will now --- HFBlogNews, I don’t know if you are simply aggregating the chosen narratives for the day or if it’s your own reporting... either way - “flight to safety”????  haven ?????  Re: “safety  - ”Those ‘solid rocks’ are getting so fragile a hit from a dandelion blowball might shatter them... like now nobody wants to buy longer term new issues at these rates...yet the financial media still follows the scripts... The imagery they pound day in and day out makes it look like the Fed knows what they’re doing to help ‘us’... They do know what they’re doing - but it certainly is not to help ‘us’... and it is not to ‘control’ inflation... And at some point in the not too distant future, the interest due will eat a huge portion of the ‘revenue’ Re: “haven” The defaults are coming ...  The US will not be the first to default... but it will certainly not be the very last to default !! ...Enough casual anti-white racism for the day  ... just sayin’
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.