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1a2b3cppp

How I Trade As If Price Is Random

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Sure it is. Look at the chart I posted in my other thread:

 

chart-with-patterns-labeled.png

 

That was created with a random generator.

 

The only reason price isn't COMPLETELY random is because it can't go below zero.

 

Price movement is random. Is SPY going to go up/down or sideways in the next minute/hour/day. I have no idea. It's random. Oh look, we're in an uptrend. Is it going to keep going up in a minute or an hour or a day? I have no idea. It's random. It might reverse now. It might reverse on Monday. It might reverse and then reverse again. I have no idea. And neither does anyone else.

 

That's what I mean by random.

 

It might not actually be, but as long as I cannot predict direction, I will treat it as if it is random.

 

I get where you are coming from - and for the sake of it agree - if you cannot predict where it is going to go then it is effectively like flipping a coin to decide. So you may as well treat it as a guess.....but its not random.

 

The whole point of having random v non random discussions is to do with beating the market and active v passive management. As well as the ability to time the market. As you are being active in trying to beat the market then clearly you dont think the market prices are random - it is simply a matter of averaging in with small enough bets and crossing your fingers. OR if you really think the markets are random then all you are doing is the simple advice of many advisors of buying into a market on regular intervals.

 

The key to profitability will still be based on where your entires are, and the edge is partially the patience to wait for pullbacks. If the markets are random your guesses are likely to be useless over the long term.....thats the whole point of claiming something is random.

(a quant friend of mine has run tests similar to this and in equities it does work whereby buying crashes and exiting at some predetermined levels makes good money - but its not random and its also very infrequently traded. In fact trading around this is more likely than not to cause the gains to be lost)

 

Using a random generator and saying you cannot trade based on prediction (no one can - they can just anticipate and manage) does not make the market random, not going below zero does not make a market random, or your trades random, or you assuming a market to be non random does not make it so, or having a randomly generated chart look like a real market chart..........randomness is a red herring.....

But i guess trading is like that and full of them.....

 

the dangerous thing here is that you are attributing something a name that is irrelevant just because you have no idea by your own admittance.

A bit like me saying - I have never met a person from Mars before, but i guess they look like Marshians, so i will say thats what a marshian looks like.

 

 

For those interested in a similar (but I also think very different method) whereby rather than averaging in losses it runs positions and builds winners. Goggle 'building an equity millipede" there is a lot to read but you can get the jist of it quickly - find a reliable low risk entry, keep letting them run. Build and compound.

 

1a2a3bccpp.....I will let you get on with your thread and appreciate you dont see this as a rampant attack.

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I would trade against you any day if you think writing an option is a good hedge. :)

Depends on what you are hedging against....

the opposite is true - writing options over an underlying is not a great hedge as you only have a hedge for the amount of premium you get...its not really a hedge at all if you think in terms of insurance. Buying the option should at least properly hedge the underlying instrument.

If you wish to collect premium by writing options, then you would be hard pressed to call this a hedge. Its more a yield enhancer/average price reducer/ take profit mechanism.....

 

If you think of hedging as an insurance policy, then would you only write a partial hedge to collect premiums over say your own house in case it burns down?

 

Writing options is not a hedge it is an offset....of cost if you own the underlying.

Buying options hedges - at a cost of the premium.

 

Once you buy or sell an option over an instument you simply change the risk and reward profile, and so it depends entirely on what you want and as to what you are trying to hedge. Plenty have been blown up because they wrote options thinking they have been hedged.

 

I dont know if this is too off topic and another red herrring...probably is.

 

 

I refer to the last line of your post, "Context is king" Please understand the advice is concerning buying long only contracts as price moves down. A protection against stagnation is to write a call option. If price moves down, it works for you, if price does nothing it works for you, if price moves up you are selling your contracts which you had bought as price previously moved down. Just my opinion.

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For those interested in a similar (but I also think very different method) whereby rather than averaging in losses it runs positions and builds winners. Goggle 'building an equity millipede" there is a lot to read but you can get the jist of it quickly - find a reliable low risk entry, keep letting them run. Build and compound.

 

I think that's pretty much what OptionTimer does, isn't it?

 

Thanks for the millipede link!

 

BlueHorseshoe

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1a2a3bccpp.....I will let you get on with your thread and appreciate you dont see this as a rampant attack.

 

It's cool, I don't see it as an attack.

 

Would you have had an issue if I said "How I Trade Because I Cannot Predict Price"?

 

To me that's all random means. I'm sure someone somewhere can predict it, and probably if you have all the info, it's not actually random, but as far as I'm concerned it is.

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I refer to the last line of your post, "Context is king" Please understand the advice is concerning buying long only contracts as price moves down. A protection against stagnation is to write a call option. If price moves down, it works for you, if price does nothing it works for you, if price moves up you are selling your contracts which you had bought as price previously moved down. Just my opinion.

 

 

As usual, people make statements without having an adequate understanding of the subject..

 

Siuya is correct....I cannot know if HE has this understanding but hedging requires the operator to know how to arrive at the proper hedge ratio, to manage deltas, and finally to understand the concept of "paying rent" (jargon for time decay)....as with all things...to the extent that a person has an advanced understanding of the subject they MAY be able to hedge "adequately"......I say adequately because even if you understand all pertinent concepts, you may still be subject to systematic problems....for example just a day or so ago, the options exchange was halted....understand if you will that even if you had a properly constructed hedge in place....if you needed to make adjustments or unwind the hedge...for that (at the time unknown) period of time...YOU'RE SCREWED.....have no idea if any of you get this but that is a generally accurate representation of the critical issues....

 

 

Good luck folks

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Sure it is. Look at the chart I posted in my other thread:

 

chart-with-patterns-labeled.png

 

That was created with a random generator.

 

The only reason price isn't COMPLETELY random is because it can't go below zero.

 

Price movement is random. Is SPY going to go up/down or sideways in the next minute/hour/day. I have no idea. It's random. Oh look, we're in an uptrend. Is it going to keep going up in a minute or an hour or a day? I have no idea. It's random. It might reverse now. It might reverse on Monday. It might reverse and then reverse again. I have no idea. And neither does anyone else.

 

That's what I mean by random.

 

It might not actually be, but as long as I cannot predict direction, I will treat it as if it is random.

Ok, now we are getting there as you state that random price is your subjective view. When I hear traders say that price is random it raises my suspicion that they do not know what drives the price and they don't read or understand the price action they see on the monitor. Only because price moves "up and down" in long or short moves does not mean it is random. If you look at it from the point of supply and demand which is exactly what's happening in front of your eyes, the "randomness" is suddenly gone.

You can see exactly at what price levels traders are willing to buy or sell from the past. New price movement follows very often to the tick as it is moving from one level to the next. If you understand to read that there is no need for double or triple down and up while draining the bank, there is no need for fancy indicators, expensive software and support of "gurus"...... all you need is a naked chart. So for me price is not random as it seems to be. Can I predict the price, no, but I can determine high probabilities, which comes very close. But this of course is my subjective view....:2c:

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As usual, people make statements without having an adequate understanding of the subject..

 

Siuya is correct....I cannot know if HE has this understanding but hedging requires the operator to know how to arrive at the proper hedge ratio, to manage deltas, and finally to understand the concept of "paying rent" (jargon for time decay)....as with all things...to the extent that a person has an advanced understanding of the subject they MAY be able to hedge "adequately"......I say adequately because even if you understand all pertinent concepts, you may still be subject to systematic problems....for example just a day or so ago, the options exchange was halted....understand if you will that even if you had a properly constructed hedge in place....if you needed to make adjustments or unwind the hedge...for that (at the time unknown) period of time...YOU'RE SCREWED.....have no idea if any of you get this but that is a generally accurate representation of the critical issues....

 

 

Good luck folks

 

yes - I think clmcdougal was only refering to hedging against any stagnation by collecting time decay (theta), or helping to reduce a PL loss due to any decline in the underlying in the single situation of a long only trade.....but it certainly is not a hedge for the underlying move. I think it was a poor choice of word to use, unless he is really under the delusion that it is a real hedge as opposed to a cost reducer. (I dont think he is)

 

All you need to refer to and imprtantly understand when trading options is the put call parity formulas/relationships to understand that buying the underlying and selling/writing a call over it is the same as selling a put. (not taking account tax factors and long term holdings etc.)And if you think selling a put is a risky trade then a covered call is the same trade.

Any ways - unless 1a2a3b is using options extensively then this would be for another thread and can be found there.

This is on top of the other issues Steve mentions.

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Hi,

1a2b3cppp I am using this simple no-margin strategy too. And it let me sleep during the nights.

 

I just want to add four issues I have learned during these years, from an-ever long italian master position trader whose nick is arseniolupin. Maybe these four can improve your trading skills. I hope so, we are all here to learn and share knowledge.

 

First: Don't use fixed lots, but fixed money (at least). Let's assume you buy XLF at 18, then keep pyramiding at 17, then 16, then 15 and so on. You have of course money to let it go to zero (however impossible). You would not buy the same quantity at each level, but maybe the same total dollar amount, as the average price will go in your favor. Or maybe you can slightly increase the dollar amount as the price goes against you.

 

Second: consider each trade as a separate one and use the valuation method known as LIFO (last in, first out). Average cost price is just an "illusion". In the example above, let's assume XLF drops to 12, you have an average cost of 14.73. People think that if the market doesn't reach 14.73, and they sell one shot at 13, they have a loss. WRONG. You earned 1 (from 12 to 13), and with this gain you can reduce the average cost of the position. Then you wait for 12 again and you buy it. Then if it goes to 13 you sell, and that 1 gain also reduces the average cost of the entire position. So on, until your average cost is reached.

 

Third: you can sell covered calls, but you can also double them at slight credit (CBOE's stock repair strategy). Assume you have bought XLF at 18, now it is trading at 17. You can sell two ATM call strike 17 and buy a 16 ITM call at slight credit. Price goes up, ok. Price goes down, you have the credit, price remains flat, best situation.

 

Fourth: use distant put backspread with ETFs for black swans (this is my favorite). Sell a september 2013 put strike 18, and buy 10 strike 12 at no cost. I did one with EWJ (japan), sell 1 ATM put sept strike 12, bought 28 puts strike 9 at no cost.

You have three scenarios:

1. price goes up: nothing happens

2. price crashes: you are rich with this position, and the other positions (i.e. SPY) are completely hedged

3. price slowly reach your worst case scenario with no vega (XLF at 12, EWJ at 9): you are assigned. You take one lot of ETF. No problem. You can average, you can sell an atm put or you can make another put backspread if you believe in black swans

 

Ok i finished ;)

 

cheers from italy

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Ok, now we are getting there as you state that random price is your subjective view. When I hear traders say that price is random it raises my suspicion that they do not know what drives the price and they don't read or understand the price action they see on the monitor. Only because price moves "up and down" in long or short moves does not mean it is random. If you look at it from the point of supply and demand which is exactly what's happening in front of your eyes, the "randomness" is suddenly gone.

You can see exactly at what price levels traders are willing to buy or sell from the past. New price movement follows very often to the tick as it is moving from one level to the next. If you understand to read that there is no need for double or triple down and up while draining the bank, there is no need for fancy indicators, expensive software and support of "gurus"...... all you need is a naked chart. So for me price is not random as it seems to be. Can I predict the price, no, but I can determine high probabilities, which comes very close. But this of course is my subjective view....:2c:

 

I fully admit price may not be random, it's just in years of studying it, I have not been able to predict it.

 

I agree you can see S/R points in the past, and sometimes price in the future respects them. As you said, I have seen price bounce off the exact same level as it did in the past. But that doesn't mean you can predict it. The chart I posted that was randomly generated also shows price bouncing off previous S/R points.

 

And there are many times price completely ignores a previous S or R point.

 

Until I can find a way to reliably predict when it's going to bounce off S or R vs. going through it, I won't be able to trade based off of them.

 

I'm still working on it, though.

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Below is the simple code to show the randomness of the markets, it looks at the number of contiguous bars in each direction. Cut and paste it into ProRealtime or any of it's derived chart packages. Put the results into a excel spreadsheet and create a graph, you'll see the Normal distribution pattern.

 

I only trade € / $ and has been tested on multiple time frames with the same pattern, also plugged it into UKX again with same result.

 

I'm not a programmer but have developed many indicators for my my own analysis, It may not be elegent or optimised but it does the job.

 

That's my evidence for randomness, now what was the evidence against again?

 

 

REM start points

 

c = 0

 

if open > close then

a = a + 1

if a[1] = 0 then

c = b

b = 0

endif

endif

 

if close > open then

b = b + 1

if b[1] = 0 then

c = a * -1

a = 0

endif

endif

 

 

if c = 1 then

v1 = v1 + 1

endif

if c = 2 then

v2 = v2 + 1

endif

if c = 3 then

v3 = v3 + 1

endif

if c = 4 then

v4 = v4 + 1

endif

if c = 5 then

v5 = v5 + 1

endif

if c = 6 then

v6 = v6 + 1

endif

if c = 7 then

v7 = v7 + 1

endif

if c = 8 then

v8 = v8 + 1

endif

if c = 9 then

v9 = v9 + 1

endif

if c > 9 then

v10 = v10 + 1

endif

 

rem negative values

 

if c = -1 then

v1a = v1a - 1

endif

if c = -2 then

v2a = v2a - 1

endif

if c = -3 then

v3a = v3a - 1

endif

if c = -4 then

v4a = v4a - 1

endif

if c = -5 then

v5a = v5a - 1

endif

if c = -6 then

v6a = v6a - 1

endif

if c = -7 then

v7a = v7a - 1

endif

if c = -8 then

v8a = v8a - 1

endif

if c = -9 then

v9a = v9a - 1

endif

if c < -9 then

v10a = v10a - 1

endif

 

v11 = v1+v2+v3+v4+v5+v6+v7+v8+v9+v10

 

v11a = v1a+v2a+v3a+v4a+v5a+v6a+v7a+v8a+v9a+v10a

 

//mttav = v1 / mtt

 

//mttch = mtt / (mtt+v2+v3+v4+v5+v6+v7+v8+v9+v10)

 

 

return v1 as "1", v2 as "2", v3 as "3", v4 as "4", v5 as "5", v6 as "6", v7 as "7", v8 as "8", v9 as "9", v10 as ">9", v1a as "-1", v2a as "-2", v3a as "-3", v4a as "-4", v5a as "-5", v6a as "-6", v7a as "-7", v8a as "-8", v9a as "-9", v10a as ">-9", v11a as "-tot", v11 as "+tot"

Edited by ed_inacloud

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Below is the simpe code to show the randomness of the markets, it looks at the number of contiguous bars in each direction. Cut and paste it into ProRealtime or any of it's derived chart packages.

 

For anyone interested in looking at this, ProRealtime (which is a fantastic charting package - also white-labelled by most of the UK spreadbet firms - IG Index, CityIndex etc), is free for end of day charting.

 

Thanks, ed_inacloud.

 

BlueHorseshoe

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I fully admit price may not be random, it's just in years of studying it, I have not been able to predict it.

 

I agree you can see S/R points in the past, and sometimes price in the future respects them. As you said, I have seen price bounce off the exact same level as it did in the past. But that doesn't mean you can predict it. The chart I posted that was randomly generated also shows price bouncing off previous S/R points.

 

And there are many times price completely ignores a previous S or R point.

 

Until I can find a way to reliably predict when it's going to bounce off S or R vs. going through it, I won't be able to trade based off of them.

 

I'm still working on it, though.

 

I really appreciate the courage to present a deviation - the subject itself is interesting - even at the theoretical level - Is it possible to earn from random situations - perhaps even Roulette. Irrespective of whether it really Random - I understand your position that says that for you it is random. Still, even mathematically random principle says that over time can earn half the time and half the time you can lose - regardless of any strategy.

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I really appreciate the courage to present a deviation - the subject itself is interesting - even at the theoretical level - Is it possible to earn from random situations - perhaps even Roulette. Irrespective of whether it really Random - I understand your position that says that for you it is random. Still, even mathematically random principle says that over time can earn half the time and half the time you can lose - regardless of any strategy.

 

I'm not having a go at anyone but clarifying several things from a mathematical perspective but do correct me if you know Im incorrect at any stage.

 

"Still, even mathematically random principle says that over time can earn half the time and half the time you can lose - regardless of any strategy"

 

Hmmmm not true! if you were a mathematician you would know odds are against you!

In a Roulette wheel your best probability of winning is about 46%. Hence why casino's exist! You forgot that a ZEROOOOOO/GREENNNNNNN is placed there!

 

Mathematically that 1acb guy is purely correct that if a trade taken it is purely random and not mean reverted because to have a mean you are referring to having a sample and not a population. In trading you can't have a sample (unless it's in the past).

 

At any given time your probability of winning a trade in a POPULATION isn't 50/50 and can never be 50/50 because other variables/factors come into play and vary most times such as size of win, spread, slippage etc. If it were 50/50 I have a series to use to ensure you always win but that's unrealistic.

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As usual, people make statements without having an adequate understanding of the subject..

 

....for example just a day or so ago, the options exchange was halted....understand if you will that even if you had a properly constructed hedge in place....if you needed to make adjustments or unwind the hedge...for that (at the time unknown) period of time...YOU'RE SCREWED.....have no idea if any of you get this but that is a generally accurate representation of the critical issues....

 

 

Good luck folks

 

Not really. With there being around 9 other options exchanges in the US, with another 3 to be launched later this year (all listing pretty much the same names), the CBOE going off line for a few hours had very little impact really.

 

FYI, the options contract specification is owned by the OCC, not the exchanges themselves. This means many exchanges are listing the same options - and as the OCC has the ownership, they are fully fungible. I can buy on C2 and sell some on Arca, some on Box no probs.

 

I hope that helps your understanding.

Ho hum.

Edited by TheDude

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I'm not having a go at anyone but clarifying several things from a mathematical perspective but do correct me if you know Im incorrect at any stage.

 

"Still, even mathematically random principle says that over time can earn half the time and half the time you can lose - regardless of any strategy"

 

Hmmmm not true! if you were a mathematician you would know odds are against you!

In a Roulette wheel your best probability of winning is about 46%. Hence why casino's exist! You forgot that a ZEROOOOOO/GREENNNNNNN is placed there!

 

Mathematically that 1acb guy is purely correct that if a trade taken it is purely random and not mean reverted because to have a mean you are referring to having a sample and not a population. In trading you can't have a sample (unless it's in the past).

 

At any given time your probability of winning a trade in a POPULATION isn't 50/50 and can never be 50/50 because other variables/factors come into play and vary most times such as size of win, spread, slippage etc. If it were 50/50 I have a series to use to ensure you always win but that's unrealistic.

 

Wouldnt that be based on the assumption that price moves in a linear fashion as in the heads/tails coin flip charts? Price doesnt move in a linear fashion does it.

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I'm not having a go at anyone but clarifying several things from a mathematical perspective but do correct me if you know Im incorrect at any stage.

 

"Still, even mathematically random principle says that over time can earn half the time and half the time you can lose - regardless of any strategy"

 

Hmmmm not true! if you were a mathematician you would know odds are against you!

In a Roulette wheel your best probability of winning is about 46%. Hence why casino's exist! You forgot that a ZEROOOOOO/GREENNNNNNN is placed there!

 

Mathematically that 1acb guy is purely correct that if a trade taken it is purely random and not mean reverted because to have a mean you are referring to having a sample and not a population. In trading you can't have a sample (unless it's in the past).

 

At any given time your probability of winning a trade in a POPULATION isn't 50/50 and can never be 50/50 because other variables/factors come into play and vary most times such as size of win, spread, slippage etc. If it were 50/50 I have a series to use to ensure you always win but that's unrealistic.

 

It could be 50/50, it likely is less than that because of the spread, assuming just a random entry.

 

As for if it were 50/50 you have a series to ensure that you always win, I'd suggest that's not correct. There is no such series unless you have infinite money.

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Not really. With there being around 9 other options exchanges in the US, with another 3 to be launched later this year (all listing pretty much the same names), the CBOE going off line for a few hours had very little impact really.

 

FYI, the options contract specification is owned by the OCC, not the exchanges themselves. This means many exchanges are listing the same options - and as the OCC has the ownership, they are fully fungible. I can buy on C2 and sell some on Arca, some on Box no probs.

 

I hope that helps your understanding.

Ho hum.

 

Ho Hum?

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323789704578446612972516412.html

 

Quote from the article

 

"The breakdown left banks, asset managers and other investors unable to deal in heavily traded options on major stock indexes and CBOE's own Volatility Index, or VIX. Those contracts are available solely on CBOE."

 

For future reference, if you have something pertinent (and accurate) to say on a subject, feel free, otherwise please don't waste my time....are we clear?

 

Ho hum

Edited by steve46

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It could be 50/50, it likely is less than that because of the spread, assuming just a random entry.

 

As for if it were 50/50 you have a series to ensure that you always win, I'd suggest that's not correct. There is no such series unless you have infinite money.

 

I've already said that...re-read what I wrote

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Wouldnt that be based on the assumption that price moves in a linear fashion as in the heads/tails coin flip charts? Price doesnt move in a linear fashion does it.

 

No linear has nothing to do with it. Everything has time base in it some price with time others binary results with time. Before you bag me I suggest don't brag and learn your probability since I am only stating mathematical possibilities and you lot are only bragging rather than having the full mathematical understanding.

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It could be 50/50, it likely is less than that because of the spread, assuming just a random entry.

 

As for if it were 50/50 you have a series to ensure that you always win, I'd suggest that's not correct. There is no such series unless you have infinite money.

 

 

 

Also I forgot to add it can NEVER BE 50/50 not while so many other variables are at hand... no offence but you have no idea about probabilities.

I would trade if it were 50/50 or more because the GAME will be fair lol

 

Think of it this way once you enter a trade you go straight to NEGATIVEEEEEEE, you never start at 0 or in the positive which means you have to make up for the negative percentage before you can be positive.

 

Come to my lectures I can show you only one instance in a casino where you can turn the odds to be in your favour and even then when I applied it they changed the rules lol. i.e IF the odds becomes in your favour they will change rules which could be increasing spreads, delaying trade entrance/exits slippage etc. In the casino they limited the betting amount. Damn it!

 

When trading you are trading against either the broker or usually the liquidators of the broker. If you lose they make money. If you win they lose money. The reason they are the brokers liquidators are because they expect accumulative returns right? If there were so many winning traders would the liquidators stick around and lose all there money?

 

Learn about the business and it's operation. Learn about how and what they control and what you can control. Is it fair? Are the odds ever in your favour?

 

There is one way to make CONSISTENT money from trading.....I'm sure many worked it out... it's not the traders and they can show you many years history such as I.B

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Wouldnt that be based on the assumption that price moves in a linear fashion as in the heads/tails coin flip charts? Price doesnt move in a linear fashion does it.

 

I forgot to fully enlighten you... flipping a coin has two outcomes just like price...UP or DOWN they are both linear if you take the time out of them.

Anything else you would like clarified?

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Ho Hum?

 

CBOE Staff Knew of Problems In Advance - WSJ.com

 

Quote from the article

 

"The breakdown left banks, asset managers and other investors unable to deal in heavily traded options on major stock indexes and CBOE's own Volatility Index, or VIX. Those contracts are available solely on CBOE."

 

For future reference, if you have something pertinent (and accurate) to say on a subject, feel free, otherwise please don't waste my time....are we clear?

 

Ho hum

 

Lol. You really should stop embarrassing yourself.

 

It is clear for all to see that you are far too emotional to be any good at trading. The fact that you lack even basic knowledge is even funnier.

 

Alas, it's Sunday, so I shall be gracious and correct you.

 

Here's a step by step process of where you fall down:

 

1. You are believing the words of a journalist - that is soooo funny. The average WSJ knows squat about trading.

 

2. Options on 'major indices' are traded on many other exchanges as a substitute. eg if I had a position on spx, as a professional, I would just do a dirty hedge on ES options on Globex if I couldnt trade SPX or other index options on any of the NINE other exchanges open to me. Not perfect I know, but I'm not in as much trouble as you think. You'd be in trouble (or SCREWED as you put it - quite telling - you'd be screwed, we wouldnt be :) )

 

3. Do you even know what the VIX is? Clearly not. If you did, then you would realise that again a dirty hedge could be constructed with ES options.

 

Any real trader would know this. You dont become a success in this field not knowing how to cover your bases. You clearly know squat - as your 'how institutions trade the S&P' thread clearly demonstrated for all the world to see.

 

It's a shame you seem to place such high utility on your time. If I were you, I'd spend your oh-so valuable time learning about the industry and the business before parading yourself as some kind of guru, when in fact you are probably a 13 year old kid somewhere getting kicks.

 

 

:haha:

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Please Steve, just think before you either give advise or try to condemn others. All you do is set yourself up for a fall.

 

Your buddy PBPhoenix has learnt his lesson when I demonstrated to him that his guru stance of 'everything except fundamental analysis is TA' was utter poppycock and he really knew jack. We all know he just rehashes Wyckoff dribble and then resells his stuff as ebooks. He should really have the golden C for CLOWN like you do - although I understand the symbol is for vendor.

 

 

All I ask for is for some sanity here, and less of the ego. We all have different opinions and thats fine. But when you two clowns start parading your opinion as fact, when it is clearly wrong, then you are in fact doing the people who come here to learn a huge disservice.

 

Please, consider yourselves both taught a lesson. Please I beg the pair of you to put your ego's away. Clearly none of you can trade your way out of a paper bag. Next time I find your posts to be spouting worthless opinion as fact I will not be so kind.

 

You have both been warned.

 

Ho hum indeed!

 

Have a nice day now.

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