[DugDug]

agree Kiwi - but I guess not to get too philosophical - its all a tool.

Imagine talking to two carpenters - one who will tell you about the leverage and physics involved in driving an object of metallic zinc alloy into a natural organic substance that has been processed, refined and cut, using another metallic object of forged steel and human natural movement of extra leverage between the radius and humerus, the other says I use a hammer to nail things together.
I guess your example is more along the lines of one of the carpenter telling you that a hammer is the best tool to cut an obect and then using it to pound a piece of wood to make it fit.
You do have to laugh when an expert describes his tool in a manner that is not really correct. I cant talk - I am terrible at describing some things - its a matter of assuming knowledge and personal interpretation I guess.
was it a video course or something on the internet?

[Kiwi]

It was a paid course. The amazing thing is that the guy really is good but repeated the assertion a number of times.

The funny thing is that he and I would do a very similar thing but I do it for a real reason and he appears to do it for a reason that has no basis in reality - and reflects a faulty understanding of his indicator (ohlc candlesticks).

My issue isn't the tools ... its the prissy holier than thou stuff that seems to go with purity.

[DugDug]

I think that your insight is far more widespread than you might imagine.
We all see shonky vendors selling systems that you can tell are shonky, however there are plenty of good traders around who are invariably good for other reasons than the ones they use to explain to other people. Sometimes, you might find someone who has incredible intuition, great money management, an ability to be able say i am wrong, go from long to short and vice versa and just be in the zone of the market. However when asked to give a replicable rationale reasons for how they do it they are "forced" to come up with a reason as opposed to saying - "I dont really know how I do it, I just trade".
If trading other peoples money and you say that - goodbye credibility.
There is so much misunderstanding in many of these things that sometimes even a spurious explanation is better than the real thing. We humans are a strange lot.

[Jumper]

Originally Posted by atto »

Price is created by transactions. Price action involves study of price's movement. Technically, if you want to just watch pure price action, you'll either be watching T&S or a 1 tick (trade) chart.

Anything else is simply a summary of price. Time bars (10s, 1m, 5m, etc) simply group all the trades into time windows. Range bars do so by movement around predetermined price intervals. And the list goes on.

Few traders I know actually trade off a 1t chart or T&S, but some do. Most people prefer to look at summaries to more easily picture a larger time frame. I trade intraday based on price off a 1k volume and 5 second chart (on the NQ). Always keep in mind, though, that as you "zoom out", you're getting further and further away from pure price. Otherwise, eventually, you end up trading bars (or candles, if that's your thing), and not price. I think of price as a "flow". How you choose to summarize it, if you do so at all, is up to you.

As for how to trade price action, I second the recommendation to the Wyckoff forum. Richard Wyckoff had a very firm grasp on price action, supply and demand, support and resistance, value, and how to trade all of it.

Good post, thanks to all who have answered so far.

So does anyone here actually trade successfully with a 1 tick chart? This for me is a pure price chart, every single move, no "overview" of a certain time period, just the market, it moves when it moves, not when the time runs out.

Keep the discussion going, its something that it rarely properly talked about, I don't think a pure PA trader is one that just doesn't use indicators, theres more to it than that, they have that feel for the market, I suppose getting to know your market is essential for a pure PA trader.

Thanks all again

[sevensa]

Originally Posted by Jumper »

Good post, thanks to all who have answered so far.

So does anyone here actually trade successfully with a 1 tick chart? This for me is a pure price chart, every single move, no "overview" of a certain time period, just the market, it moves when it moves, not when the time runs out.

Keep the discussion going, its something that it rarely properly talked about, I don't think a pure PA trader is one that just doesn't use indicators, theres more to it than that, they have that feel for the market, I suppose getting to know your market is essential for a pure PA trader.

Thanks all again

I am curious to know why this is important for you to have a definition of what a Price Action Trader is? Do you think this is going to help you to trade better? Does it really matter? You can have everlasting debates about what a price action trader is and what not, but in the end isn't finding a profitable method more important, regardless if you are using 5 minute charts and moving averages, or one tick charts?

[Jumper]

Originally Posted by sevensa »

I am curious to know why this is important for you to have a definition of what a Price Action Trader is? Do you think this is going to help you to trade better? Does it really matter? You can have everlasting debates about what a price action trader is and what not, but in the end isn't finding a profitable method more important, regardless if you are using 5 minute charts and moving averages, or one tick charts?

Well obviously it won't make anyone a better trader because no one is willing to share anything that will actually make a difference, and yes ofcourse finding a profitable method is more important, heard all that before.

I am just interested to hear what people themselves actually think a PA Trader is, it gets thrown around a lot, when its not necessarily true.

[sevensa]

Originally Posted by Jumper »

Well obviously it won't make anyone a better trader because no one is willing to share anything that will actually make a difference, and yes ofcourse finding a profitable method is more important, heard all that before.

How do you expect knowing the definition of a PA trader is going to make a difference and help you being a better trader? What kind of answer are you looking for that you will consider "make a difference"? Let's for argument sake say we all agree trading from a one tick chart without anything else is the definition. How will you use this definition to become a better trader? Or are you really looking for someone to tell you how they trade and not so much what the definition of a PA trader is?

[Jumper]

Originally Posted by sevensa »

How do you expect knowing the definition of a PA trader is going to make a difference and help you being a better trader? What kind of answer are you looking for that you will consider "make a difference"? Let's for argument sake say we all agree trading from a one tick chart without anything else is the definition. How will you use this definition to become a better trader? Or are you really looking for someone to tell you how they trade and not so much what the definition of a PA trader is?

Did I ever say I was looking for answers that make me a better trader? Dunno what your problem is.

As far as I know, this is a discussion forum, you know, for discussing things. Not everything has to help you become a better trader, sounds like your the one looking to become a better trader anyway. I am, for the second time, just interested to hear what people perceive a PA Trader to be, and what a PA Trader actually looks at, like if anyone looks at T&S or stares at the DOM, or whether they just look at a tick chart, 1 min, 5 min. Whatever. Not that hard to understand.

Nothing to do with anyone trying to be a "better trader". Re-read the last sentence in my original post.