[thalestrader]

If RA were thinking clearly, he'd have used the opportunity to post some real time examples here in this thread. I can tell you from my experience in the Reading Charts thread that if he were to post just a couple of winning trades and answered a few questions politely, he'd have had plenty of PM's from folks ready, willing, and able to pony up for his seminar course. Instead, he goes right for the close.

There is a right way and a wrong way to market yourself. In the context of TL, he did it the wrong way. That does not mean that it was too late to do the right thing (a "win win" as Blowfish calls it), but he certainly did himself no favors by his reaction. I would have liked for him to contribute here. I just did not like the upfront "Tell them what they get for just $995" approach. I certainly do not feel I "jumped down the guy's throat." I simply said that you have to wonder about a guy who uses his initial post to ask for a grand. I and I still think you have to wonder.

For what it is worth, I am not opposed to all seminar teachers. I would gladly pay to attend any Linda Raschke event. William O'Neil? You betcha'. Regrettably it is too late to revisit George Lane, but certainly it was money well spent. Trading can be taught. But show us something, then ask for the money. RA had, and perhaps can still salvage, an opportunity to provide us with some kind of body of evidence that indicates that there is something of value and worth hearing there.

Best Wishes,

Thales

[Tasuki]

Originally Posted by thalestrader »

If RA were thinking clearly, he'd have used the opportunity to post some real time examples here in this thread. I can tell you from my experience in the Reading Charts thread that if he were to post just a couple of winning trades and answered a few questions politely, he'd have had plenty of PM's from folks ready, willing, and able to pony up for his seminar course. Instead, he goes right for the close.

There is a right way and a wrong way to market yourself. In the context of TL, he did it the wrong way. That does not mean that it was too late to do the right thing (a "win win" as Blowfish calls it), but he certainly did himself no favors by his reaction. I would have liked for him to contribute here. I just did not like the upfront "Tell them what they get for just $995" approach. I certainly do not feel I "jumped down the guy's throat." I simply said that you have to wonder about a guy who uses his initial post to ask for a grand. I and I still think you have to wonder.

For what it is worth, I am not opposed to all seminar teachers. I would gladly pay to attend any Linda Raschke event. William O'Neil? You betcha'. Regrettably it is too late to revisit George Lane, but certainly it was money well spent. Trading can be taught. But show us something, then ask for the money. RA had, and perhaps can still salvage, an opportunity to provide us with some kind of body of evidence that indicates that there is something of value and worth hearing there.

Best Wishes,

Thales

very well said, Thales.

Possibly, RA is just a scam artist. From what I've seen so far, however, that is unlikely. Actually, very unlikely.
Possibly, RA is afraid that, if he shows his trades, people will catch on and he'll have nothing to teach. This seems quite plausible, or at least plausible that he thinks so.
Possibly, he's just a crusty old bastard who's a good enough trader that he doesn't actually give a damn about teaching or sharing. Given his past as a floor trader, this is also entirely possible.
Pity, really, because I think these "hidden pivots" might be useful for entries in difficult markets, if we could figure out how they work.

Tasuki

[sevensa]

Originally Posted by Tasuki »

very well said, Thales.

Possibly, RA is just a scam artist. From what I've seen so far, however, that is unlikely. Actually, very unlikely.
Possibly, RA is afraid that, if he shows his trades, people will catch on and he'll have nothing to teach. This seems quite plausible, or at least plausible that he thinks so.
Possibly, he's just a crusty old bastard who's a good enough trader that he doesn't actually give a damn about teaching or sharing. Given his past as a floor trader, this is also entirely possible.
Pity, really, because I think these "hidden pivots" might be useful for entries in difficult markets, if we could figure out how they work.

Tasuki

I really do not see the point of continue to cry about this. You make it sound like this was our one shot of finding the holy grail. From his first post, he obviously was not going to provide it here for free. If you really think this "hidden pivots" are so important, why not shell out the $995 and find out? For something you think is that important, $995 should be peanuts.

[Kiwi]

All this stuff is bullshit anyway. If its not in the public domain its not going to sell for 995 if its real.

Shame on you Sevensea. 995 is not peanuts if it feeds the scammers - it keeps the parasitic fukkers alive.

[sevensa]

Originally Posted by Kiwi »

All this stuff is bullshit anyway. If its not in the public domain its not going to sell for 995 if its real.

Shame on you Sevensea. 995 is not peanuts if it feeds the scammers - it keeps the parasitic fukkers alive.

How about telling us how you really feel?

That wasn't my point. Tasuki doesn't believe it is a scam and my point was that if someone really think something is so wonderful, $995 should be peanuts for it. If you think $995 is too much to pay for something you honestly believe will improve your trading, we will just have to disagree as I will glady do it as I know it will pay for itself in no time. (Not that I think this particular product is worth paying anything for and I won't.)

I wouldn't go so far as saying that "all this stuff is bullshit" though. I've paid for "stuff" in the past that was quite useful and improved my trading and paid for itself many times over it's cost.

[BlowFish]

Originally Posted by Tasuki »

v

Possibly, RA is afraid that, if he shows his trades, people will catch on and he'll have nothing to teach. This seems quite plausible, or at least plausible that he thinks so.

Originally Posted by Kiwi »

All this stuff is bullshit anyway. If its not in the public domain its not going to sell for 995 if its real.

Shame on you Sevensea. 995 is not peanuts if it feeds the scammers - it keeps the parasitic fukkers alive.

Well a very cursory look and my hunch is that a) there is possibly some validity to the approach b) there is nothing really novel there, price action, measured moves, blah, blah.

There is no secret sauce. If you find it difficult to pull this sort of stuff together into an effective approach then maybe it is worth shelling out for this or something like it. The technique is secondary providing you accept the principles. My advice would be, be very wary of people that imply the secret to success is in the nuances of the technique rather than the traders application of it. I am not suggesting R is doing this but it is a very quick way to filter quite a large portion of the BSers.

[Marsupilami]

I don't think RA is a scam. I'm pretty sure I know what he does and this stuff can work incredibly well although it is more of an art than a science and it is definitely nothing new, it is extremely basic and it can certainly work if you are an experienced trader. If you try to apply his setup mechanically, however, you will get killed.

There are guys who sell the same setup (maybe with a few nuances) for much more, although they provide "lifelong" training and trade this way day in and day out along with a group of other traders. It seems to work for them although I'm pretty sure they are not trading from a yacht or a tropical island.

So if RA does what I think he does, the 995 $ is definitely a fair price, imho.

[thalestrader]

I do not think he is a scam. His approach is worth studying if you are still without an approach that works for you.

I, like Sevensa, have bought information that I would gladly pay for again (I gave as examples Linda Raschke and George Lane). I do not think $995 is an exorbitant amount to charge, especially if follow up were included (I'd probably charge 5 times than much just to give some of the folks here at TL my personal email address for all the headaches I'm sure they'd give me).

My point above was that RA was far too heavy handed in his self-promotion. I do not think he is simply a "crusty old trader" who doesn't care about teaching ... of course he does, or else why else mention his monthly seminar and its attendant fee? My guess is that he does know how to trade. Whether he still trades or not, or whether he is still able to trade well or not, I do not know (I have known a few over the years who know how to trade, and who at one time could trade, but have since lost their nerve and are no longer able to trade, though they know what they have to do to do it well). So whether he trades or not, RA certainly is interested in teaching (though, apparently, not "sharing") his method.

Best Wishes,

Thales