[email]

Originally Posted by Nvesta81 »

Ok, here's a 1 min chart of today's price action in the YM using classic pivot formula and mid points between pivots. These were plotted before the open. Although arbitrary, it's apparent to me that price reacts to these levels in a significant way, more-so than S/R lines drawn from previous sessions (I've tried... believe me). I just find it interesting that many traders think they are useless....

note: the vwap also had a lot of influence today, I'm guessing there was a lot of Fund activity selling at that price level.

Nvesta81,

I agree with you a 100% about the pivots and the mid-points, also very interesting that you mention the Vwap, I trade the ES and I actually shorted twice at the Vwap.
Regards,
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[shreem]

Hello Dear Jperl, thank a lot about the reminder about how you see these S and R through your great threads on market statistics. I have look and studied all your threads and videos and right now I am trying to devise a sound approach to my trading incorporating your valuable ideas that I learned in your threads with a combination about how DbPhoenix view and define S and R zones, levels and points which arevery interesting and logical to see how he use them.

So, as I see it, both of your trading style, eventhough having a different methodology to approach the market, are very compatible and can certainely be merged together to create my own style.

Learning from great traders ideas is an excellent step in the right direction. However, until one can take all that he learn and mixed it to make its own so that he has the confidence to follow it with a strick discipline is even more important.

Saying that, if my path would not have crossed both You (Jperl), DbPheonix, Soultrader, Walterw and some others, I would not even be in a position to be able to begin thinking about devising a sound approach.

So, I feel very humbled and grateful to be able to learn from all of you.

Sincerely

Shreem

Originally Posted by jperl »

Be careful here on how you define the mean. The POC is the mean only if the distribution function is symmetric (as in a Normal Distribution). On most days it is not symmetric, in which case the mean is defined by the volume weighted average price, the VWAP, which can be quite far from the POC. For a complete discussion of the VWAP and how to trade it see the 11 threads on "Trading with Market Statistics" which starts here


There are many types of computations for so called "support and resistance". Unfortunately this term has been very much over used and misused. A so called "support" point for instance is only a support point if the market actually reverses at that point. Similarly for resistance. A better interpretation would be to call such points Holdup Price Points which I call HUP. These are price regions where the price action slows down before either continuing on in the same direction or reversing. The "Trading with Market Statistics" threads describe these point in some detail.

[mister ed]

Db,

I appreciate you may not want to answer my question, thats fine. But since you brought it up I had to ask. I can't say I agree with your description of Wyckoff's concepts at all though, but I am no expert. If I may derail your thread on real-time price action for a moment I will just clarify some of the concepts, as I don't want those unfamiliar with Wyckoff to get the wrong idea.

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

That markets shift between balancing and trending

True, obviously so, but not a Wyckoff concept (too obvious to state). I doubt the word 'balance' was in Wyckoff's trading vocabulary. If you mean 'trading range' in place of balance, then getting warmer. A better way of phrasing this, in terms of concepts that may be applicable to Wyckoff would be to say that markets are shifted between balancing (not the right word) and trending.

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

that the balancing phases represent a search for equilibrium

If, by balancing phases, you mean trading ranges, I believe Wyckoff's concept is that a trading range represents a time and price range where the transfer of ownership from weak to strong hands (or vice-versa) prior to a mark-up (or mark-down) is the objective. Very different to a search for equilibrium.

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

that support and resistance will be found where trading activity is at its busiest.

Sometimes. However, near the beginning of the mark-up (and mark-down) phases there are many points of support (and resistance in the case of the mark-down) characterised by low volume, where trading activity is not at its busiest.

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

Auction market stuff.

Lost me completely on this one sorry.


Sorry for the tangent, back to the thread's subject!

[erierambler]

Originally Posted by mister ed »

. If I may derail your thread on real-time price action for a moment I will just clarify some of the concepts, as I don't want those unfamiliar with Wyckoff to get the wrong idea.
I doubt the word 'balance' was in Wyckoff's trading vocabulary. If you mean 'trading range' in place of balance, then getting warmer. A better way of phrasing this, in terms of concepts that may be applicable to Wyckoff would be to say that markets are shifted between balancing (not the right word) and trending.
If, by balancing phases, you mean trading ranges, I believe Wyckoff's concept is that a trading range represents a time and price range where the transfer of ownership from weak to strong hands (or vice-versa) prior to a mark-up (or mark-down) is the objective. Very different to a search for equilibrium.

)

Well Wyckoff wrote his course in the 30's. As a student ( I have taken the course ). A lot has changed since then, his course was more specific towards stock trading, but his principles apply today. His main thrust was to understand and study the market. He was adamant that one should learn the "position and probable future trend of the market" ( his words ). It is well known that the market moves from equilibrium to trend. My own humble opinion of course.......
erie

[DbPhoenix]

Originally Posted by mister ed »

Sorry for the tangent, back to the thread's subject!

While much of your reply is inaccurate, this really isn't the place to debate Wyckoff v Evans v SMI v VSA v MP. I'll stick with Wyckoff's own concepts and explain them the best I can.

[mister ed]

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

While much of your reply is inaccurate, this really isn't the place to debate Wyckoff v Evans v SMI v VSA v MP. I'll stick with Wyckoff's own concepts and explain them the best I can.

Like I said Db, I am no expert, just didn't see your answer/explanation to the question as any sort of answer/explanation at all. Don't want to derail your thread any further.

[marcj]

What do you guys and gals think of this explanation of VSA.

Volume spread analysis (VSA) seeks to establish the cause of price movements. The "cause" is quite simply the imbalance between supply and demand in the market, which is created by the activity of professional operators (smart money). The activity of these professional operators, and more important, their true intentions, are clearly shown on a price chart if the trader knows how to read them.

You must realize that the professional operators make their money buying long during the down bars. They try to hide their activity so they do not drive the price up. Analyzing Volume and Price to find when and what they are trading is VSA. This is a hard concept to understand and see, but once you do; look out world.

So in a Price and Volume chart, look for this signs of VSA;

1.Very small Price bars with volume.
2.Large Price bars with volume.
VSA is not well defined; if you look it up you will find many definitions. I have just summarized them.



*Note the volume and price at 3:50. This was my signal this was going up.

http://www.trading-seminar.com/index...enustr=Trading

[zeon]

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

.
After price drops below the demand line, he rides the trend. He can continue to ride it all the way to support at 1710 (refer back to the first chart) or until the market closes.

Thank you for a very informative post. Now you've made it clear that there is S/R all around the place on different timeframes. But this morning (and I don't know how much attention you give to premarket action) the Nasdaq has dropped below 1710. If I look back to the left of my chart, I don't find much support now... how do you determine targets for intraday trading when there is nothing but -how shall I put it- "air" in between here and much lower?