monad

I also know Todd, knew what he was talking about, since he left I have ignored TG. Todd was more about reading price/vol in the right context and if I recall did not get into bar by bar analysis all over the chart which appears to be in vogue , have looked at some You Tube Videos on Oil and how the Tradeguider software was able to pinpoint with its indicator "End of Rising Market" the exact turning point in the price around $140 I believe, again as with charts showing Stoch, RSI, MaCD divergence, this has been conveniently cherry picked. There are countless examples where this same indicator has proved negative. I questioned them about these VSA signals in the software, the answer was "Human brain is smarter than the computer", so you have to consider the signals in context. Would this not apply to any indicator:(

Hakuna, You have valid points, will go along with MRW, have had similar experience with VSA crowd myself. There is value there buried under all that hype though. Am presently attempting to put all this in context with other methods like Taylor, again this is not everybody's cup of tea, some love it, some loathe it, some consider it obsolete as it is all from 1950s way before computers, does that mean wyckoff and for that matter VSA is also obsolete????????????? what do you say.

Yes have noticed that some of his style of writing has rubbed on to you:), no offence meant. Very much doubt if Taylor did that deliberately. Like Wyckoff, he got the insight into the workings of the market and it was "Eureka", was just glad to announce to the world. Wyckoff ofcourse was quite adept at writing. Do you reckon Taylor was fully conversant with Wyckoff's work. You are right about having persistence to go through Taylors work, the various reviews on amazon.com reflect this, most consider it obsolete and tend to follow Linda Raschke or G. Angell's versions. But from what I understand of Taylor so far, both are way off the original messsage.

Many many thanks for taking the trouble I realise that despite multiple read of the book, I am most likely to get the concept wrong(can't quite get around to Taylors style of writing:( You are right about the mental aspects of trading ie. Discipline. in the above example, did you mean to say "So I am out of my short and now long waiting for any decent rally" . Look forward to your take on Sell Day and SS day.

WHY?, richbois, thanks for the clarification Had in mind the question regarding different folks starting the book at different times, guess richbois has addressed that issue. Boils down to how to trade any particular day based on highs/lows made previous day. Allow me to pick your brains further. Will enumerate ways of playing as I see it, please feel free to correct/add/modify/criticise:) 1. BUY DAY : Both long and shorts can be taken. a) if High is made last on SS day, Look for Shorting opportunity b) if Low is made last on SS day, wait for retest of low to go long. c) if close is flat i.e open/close of SS day approx same, wait for a dip in price to test low of SS day prior to considering longs. 2. SELL DAY: Again both long and short trading possible. a) High made last on Buy day: Look to short on penetration of this high or failure to penetrate. b) Low made last on Buy day: look for long opportunity at open , however if prices drop below the low then that is B.V and hence the long should not he held too long, target would be around the low of buy day. Next level would be the High of Buy Day if uptrend continues. Many times the prices rise even further and a High is put in last on Sell day. c) If flat close on Buy Day, again, wait for tests of the low of the buy day before considering long. 3. SS DAY: According to Taylor strictly no longs on this trade, however if I understand you guys correctly, both longs and shorts can be considered depending on previous days action. a) High made Last on Sell Day: Look to short on penetration or failure to penetrate. b) Low made Last on Sell Day: Note if B.V has occurred, then longs can be taken with similar target as that on sell day. c) Flat close on Sell Day: both longs and shorts possible on open?????? Any info. would be highly appreciated.

WHY? Thanks once again. o.k lets say I go according to the instructions to make the book and 12th Jan Monday turns out to be a buy day, hence we will end the week on16th Jan, Friday as Sell day. Now 17th and 18th are weekend days and so will be Monday 19th Jan "Martin Luther King" Birthday. How would we read 20th Jan, Tuesday. As per Taylor I would treat Monday 19th as SS day and 20th Jan, Tuesday as Buy day. Am I right? 1. if there were 2 weekday holidays rather than just one, how would I proceed then. 2. Also do I continue the count on sat, sun (weekend) or go straight from Friday to Monday.

WHY? Greatly appreciate the detailed explanation, the rephasing does answer the discrepancies in the post. Interesting take on changes that can be made into Taylor on a temporary basis. Hope you keep posting as I think your posts shows you certainly have a grasp of Taylor's method. A question: say if I wanted to start counting via Taylor for ESmini as of 12th Jan 2009, Monday. How would I go about doing that and what would be the starting point.

Have been occupied with project work, couple of them abroad. Am not a beginner as you know, have been around the block , it was just that there was so much hype about VSA club etc. I spoke to Todd Kruegger and Tom Williams some time back, nice guys. Todd certainly was a realtime trader. shame he is no longer there now. but as has been pointed out, he was their backbone then.

Do you still subscribe to the VSA club. Did you find it of any benefit to your trading considering a charge of nearly $100/month. Understand there are over 200 members, Manby and co must be making a bundle, no need for these guys to trade at all.:thumbs up:

WHY? Have been going over this thread from the first page to see if I can understand TT. From you posts it appears you have knowledge on this subject. However your analysis of certain days has created a lot of confusion for me. Allow me to put up quotes from your posts: Post 28: 10-16 was short-sell action all the way except it was short-sell with a failure to penetrate, According to Taylor tomm 10-17 is a buy day. Dogpile not sure how you determine the days. I come up with different calculations than you do. My software would have indicated to me………………………. The opportunity was there to short today early in the session just under 1562, Typical Taylor BUY day. High made first that gives a shorting opportunity Post 36: Taylor called yesterday 10-18 a SS day and today 10-19 would be a buy day Post 37: I might say that the price action today 10-19 (buy day) is what Taylor would term a BU (or buying under the low of the previous day 10-18 which was a short sell day). Notice that 10-17 was a sell day and 10-16 a buy day. What is interesting is a BV (buying day violation-a lower low than the precious day which was a buy day) took place on the 17th. Post 51: We see that 10-11-07 was a BUY day according to my software. On a buy day, per Taylor rules, if the high is made first I am allowed to short it. However, I can detail the action of 10-11-07 for you. I would need no chart to trade the action on 10-11-07. My proprietary software doesn't even use charts. Lets look at the action on and near 10-11-07 Post 58: No, 10-11-07 was a BUY day. Go back and read my post #51 So, 10 - 12 = Sell Day 10 - 15 = SS day 10 - 16 = Buy day 10 - 17 = Sell day 1. In post 28, you said your software came up with 10-17 as a Buy Day 2. In Post 37, it showed 10-17 as a Sell Day 3. In Post 58, it showed 10-17 as a Sell Day. I understand that initially due to many exchanges with others who had different take on the subject, a mistake could have been made, however since you are using your software it is difficult to see how it could have got the sequence wrong. Would greatly appreciate if you could resolve this as I am not sure which is the correct sequence.

Do not know whether the person in question(being an expert in VSA) trades in realtime or not, but there was no evidence of that on the thread via the posts , infact the only guys who came in straight with their realtime trades were piggyback and sheptrader and it looks like from the paucity of any recent posts by them, that it has dawned on them that they have nothing much to gain here. Hope they come back, could certainly use their help with our learning curve

Sebastian, It would be extremely helpful if you could post some trades that you have actually taken on the forex or index futures to demonstrate the VSA indicators and how they are productive when considered within the context of recent price action and also what was your thinking process for your entry and exit.

Good trading, any particular reason for the short bias through the session, there is an uptrend from 15hrs to 16.30hrs, was it difficult to read price/vol during that period , if so why?

PivotProfiler has combined Market profile ,( albeit calculated levels) with VSA and in the context of previous Wide Range Bars quite effectively. Check out his posts on this thread.

I can relate to what you are experiencing, having been through the analysis process myself. The same can be applied to candlestick chart reading, there are going to be lot more engulfing bars, hammers, hanging man etc on a 1min chart than on a 30min chart in say a 6hr period. It is how price is behaving at certain levels and with what volume and what result that is important. Would recommend sites and comments by Dbphoenix: Most Indicators are useless - why does anyone bother with them? - Page 10 - T2W Day Trading & Forex Forums Also check out other threads by him: Price, (Volume), Support, Resistance, Demand, Supply . . . - T2W Day Trading & Forex Forums The key is to understand the principles of Price/Vol (Wyckoff) . Here are some quotes "Those who perseverate on bar intervals are likely using price bars as indicators, just as many people use candlesticks as indicators. The bar interval is irrelevant. What matters is the movement of price. Any bar interval beyond a tick is a summary. What sense is there is in waiting for, say, a 5m bar to "close", much less 10 or 15 or 30? Are professional traders 'round the world waiting to act according to what price does in five minutes, or are they acting on what price is doing right now? What matters is the point at which price hits S/R and what happens there. It makes no sense to me to use an hourly chart or whatever and wait up to an hour to see what happens. If traders are reacting to R, why wait? Waiting requires a much wider stop." 2. Whether one TimeFrame "contradicts" another or not has less to do with price action and more with the choices one makes in displaying it. Consider that there are no contradictions among TFs, that price simply moves from one area to another. If you trade, for example, support and resistance, then questions of "trend" become largely irrelevant. If you attempt to trade trend without regard to support and resistance, then, , focus on your chosen interval and ignore everything else.

You are in great company, Virgin Boss is dyslexic, infact folks with dyslexia possess great business acumen;) BTW do you employ higher timeframe charts to establish trend etc (say 15min, 30mim or 60min) and then trade off 3min charts or just focus entirely on price/vol relationships on 3min charts.

would you care to elaborate the reason, can only enhance our learning curve, do you base your trades primarily via candlestick patterns???

According to some folks on teh VSA thread, Joel Pozen is an excellent coach especially in the field of Price/Volume relationship and market manipulation by smart money. It might be worth contacting some of these guys via PM to get more details.

Would you ,piggyback and others who have gained insights into price/vol relationships be it via Tom, Wyckoff or Joel, care to share them via some charts , trades and comments as PP has just illustrated.

pp, Great Chart, Will have to take up trading forex or currency futures full time, they do trend well, don't they.. BTW have you tested your calculated MP pivots or index futures such as YM, ES , Dax etc., Also what is Harmonic Range High/Low and how were they calculated.

Folks, check out the link below, pure wyckoff by Dbphoenix, infact one of the charts illustrates a couple of principles explained in Vadym Graifer's book, which was recommended by Ravin and also brought Dbphoenix to my attention:thumbs up:, I have to thank him for that, good on you mate:thumbs up: Here is the link: http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/28444-most-indicators-useless-why-does-anyone-bother-them-11.html

Check out the following sites, you should find enough information about support/resistance, price/vol i.e how to trade with s/r http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=20336 (Plotting S/R) http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=20035 (Globex, S/R, ) http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=11104 (73pages) http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=29005&perpage=6&pagenumber=2 (PRICE VOLUME BY DBPHOENIX) 35PAGES http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29005&perpage=1&pagenumber=1

Soultrader, are you referring to Market Profile POC, value area etc or the traditional pivots, because the above site(MyPivots) provides values on the latter. Do you know any site which posts POC, Value area info. on various index and currency futures.

PP, Very Informative chart with MP value areas, Interestingly, as I observed previously either DRH or DRL will inevitably have a value equal to the previous days midrange i.e (H-L)/2 , here DRL is around 1.4684 simply because the pdiff is the difference between POC and the midrange value, which is then either subtracted or added to it. What does RR stand for???? What happens in a situation where there is congestion for a few hours and then a strong trend for the rest of the day. The traditional MP construction would then have more TPO in the congestion zone (POC) where that based on (H+L+2*C)/4 would be quite different, under these circumstances do the value areas differ widely in your experience or are they still relevant to trade with???