[sicktrader]

Until yesterday I would do anything to screw the IRS, today I respect its power. Wife went to the grocery yesterday evening to buy some things before this big storm, and her debit was declined. She came home all pissed, logged in the bank account to find a wopping balance of $0 ( far from where it should have been). Called the bank last night and was told it was an IRS levy. Man was she pissed at me since it stemmed from my business. Since I was ordered to the couch, I proceeded to get drunk, pass out on the couch, and subsequently missed a number of trades through the night. Spent an hour and a half this morning talking to the IRS, had to get to the third agent before I found one that wasn't a fcking idiot. Turns out, they have the power to take anything they want, when they want, without a notification. Yes, I was supposed to call them two weeks ago and didn't, so this was their action. They said they go to one or more of your bank accounts, and take whatever is in there. Which is what they did. Told me I have 30 days to get '08 taxes in or they will freeze everything for the entire amount. All this after my worst week of trading. Boys, I have a new respect for the IRS. Be smart.

[karim0028]

Originally Posted by sicktrader »

Until yesterday I would do anything to screw the IRS, today I respect its power. Wife went to the grocery yesterday evening to buy some things before this big storm, and her debit was declined. She came home all pissed, logged in the bank account to find a wopping balance of $0 ( far from where it should have been). Called the bank last night and was told it was an IRS levy. Man was she pissed at me since it stemmed from my business. Since I was ordered to the couch, I proceeded to get drunk, pass out on the couch, and subsequently missed a number of trades through the night. Spent an hour and a half this morning talking to the IRS, had to get to the third agent before I found one that wasn't a fcking idiot. Turns out, they have the power to take anything they want, when they want, without a notification. Yes, I was supposed to call them two weeks ago and didn't, so this was their action. They said they go to one or more of your bank accounts, and take whatever is in there. Which is what they did. Told me I have 30 days to get '08 taxes in or they will freeze everything for the entire amount. All this after my worst week of trading. Boys, I have a new respect for the IRS. Be smart.

Funny, that same thing happened to me IRS levies any and all accounts linked to you... They levied one account with a large sum of money in it for a $300 dollar amount they stated i owed them for a property tax refund that my accountant claimed incorrectly...

Talk about power Now that is power... Luckily i had other accounts that i could access, but if you keep all your money/assets in a single place you cannot fight, bc what lawyer is going to work for free once they have you in that kind of bind? You are essentially screwed..

[natedredd10]

Good stuff...
Only a fool would try to go offshore without a great tax lawyer on retainer..personally I think its just lame..Taxes are the cover charge to this party...if everyone gets on the VIP list and doesn't pay, then the party can't continue.
If you want to be a 2 bit pirate instead a business man, then move physically to a place with a history of piracy like the carribean.

[MidKnight]

Reminds me of the Mafia, they also take whatever they want when they want it. And if you don't pay, they will threaten and extort you - sounds familiar?

[SNYP40A1]

Originally Posted by MidKnight »

Reminds me of the Mafia, they also take whatever they want when they want it. And if you don't pay, they will threaten and extort you - sounds familiar?

I started the same thread on another trading forum before this one was started and I got flamed pretty bad for suggesting that people should move to another country to avoid paying higher taxes. People over there really don't like the idea of other people not paying taxes. The best argument against not leaving the country is that it's still a pretty good place to live. We have the best higher education system in the world, that's undisputed. You don't have to work very hard to get by and have a nice life. You can even argue as some on here have that if you are paying taxes, that means you are making money -- be happy with what you have. That's all true, but at the end of the day it's still a business. And like all businesses, if they can get the same product from a different supplier for cheaper, then they should in the spirit of an open and competitive market. The problem with government, as I see it is that there's no competition. Combined with the fact that large organizations tend to sponsor corruption and the matter starts to become an issue of ethics for me, but that's a whole other debate.

In any case, if you earn money as a US citizenship, you have to pay uncle Sam. I think the US and Philippines are the only countries that do this. Even if you leave the country and earn the money someplace else...you still have to pay taxes to the US (I think there might be a way you can exempt the first $90k though). What about moving to Panama or the Bahamas?

Also, for me it's not just about taxes. I see the US becoming very hard-pressed for more money and with a growing population of unproductive people who can VOTE, I'm a bit concerned. Soon, all a president will have to do to get elected is campaign on redistributing the wealth and then...oh...already happened. So I think it might be wise to store money outside the country just to protect it from getting seized in the future. Question is, what other country would be safe (with a stable government) from having the US sieze it. Seems like Switzerland is no longer a safe haven. I'm not even talking about avoiding taxes on interest income here, just talking about storing the money in a place where the US can't seize it. Worst case, convert all your savings to raw gold and then bury them someplace out in the middle of nowhere... Anyone got a better idea?

Edit: Oh, and if you do try to revoke your citizenship, there's an exit tax on all assets above $2 million. Before that, I think you still had to file taxes for something like 10 years after renouncing citizenship. That's pretty ridiculous, definitely like the mafia.

[karim0028]

Originally Posted by SNYP40A1 »

Question is, what other country would be safe (with a stable government) from having the US sieze it. Seems like Switzerland is no longer a safe haven. I'm not even talking about avoiding taxes on interest income here, just talking about storing the money in a place where the US can't seize it. Worst case, convert all your savings to raw gold and then bury them someplace out in the middle of nowhere... Anyone got a better idea?

Edit: Oh, and if you do try to revoke your citizenship, there's an exit tax on all assets above $2 million. Before that, I think you still had to file taxes for something like 10 years after renouncing citizenship. That's pretty ridiculous, definitely like the mafia.

You can try bullionvault.com for holding physical gold outside the US.... Pretty solid and audited.

I am still looking for the same things you mentioned above.... Essentially the mechanics of going offshore and trading (at least creating an account offshore).

[JBahn]

This is probably more of a question for a lawyer/CPA, but I will see if people on here have some insight.

I currently trade full time from Costa Rica, under a Sole-Prop account that is US based. I have no other income/business in the US, however I am a US Citizen. I have several Corporations in Costa Rica, some which are inactive and only used as asset holders (Bank Accounts). I talked with Tradestation and they said no problem with opening an account under the CR Corporations (known as "Anonymous Societies"). Costa Rica has secret banking laws as well as secret corporate documents (hence: Anonymous Societies).

So TS sent over the application, and in the application it demands my Passport number and SS#. With them having that information, is there still a tax advantage to trading under the corporate name? My wife and I are the only directors of the corporation. I am a US Citizen, she has no US connection.

Thoughts?

[Kiwi]

Unless you find a broker who is not seeking a US linkage then all you are doing is diluting the secrecy of your AS. Stay away from TS or create another AS that your wife is a director of and you are not associated with - but make sure that your wife's earnings are not the purvey of the IRS. Then she can pay you a couple of dollars to trade for her and you can declare that as income. Keep the income low enough and I don't believe you have to tell the IRS about it.