[hegh]

hi,

I think the MP is more than just Supports / Resistances.
IB, the Profile, the VA and their respective position of MP are more than just a graphic representation (even if I use my own word).

[koifan]

I just happened to come across something on the James Dalton Trading website confirms my earler statement that Market Profile is NOT an Indicator. This is a quote from Mr. Dalton (author of :Mind over Markets") himself...

"Market Profile® is not an indicator in the technical sense nor does it provide buy and sell signals but rather it is a decision support-tool. It provides a composite view much different from other charting tools available and as a result, gives a trader the opportunity to form a broader perspective. The Profile organizes the market’s continual two-way auction (race after race after race) so that you can advance your trading and decision-making abilities."

The posting created a lot of opinions that it was an indicator... but I believe Mr. Dalton has the correct
and only correct answer. I rest my case.

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by Frank »

Perhaps its because I was not trading in the 1980's but I have different perspective --- one that never started with idea that Market Profile was a trading method, as many MP disciples probably did. I think of market profile as 'theory only' and always have done so. How you interpret the developing intraday chart is about order flow and this is achieved through 'multi-timeframe' analysis -- where a bias is created based on higher timeframe order flow and is executed on lower timeframe to enhance the reward/risk relationship.

One thing that is enduring though -- is that the resulting intraday histogram seeks value --- and price 'overlaps' when it reaches that level of value. How you want to define/interpret this is up to the trader. It is not that the profile gives you a heads-up on what WILL happen, it is the underlying concepts that accompany Market Profile that allows you to make a FORECAST about what will happen (and quite often entirely separate from the existing histogram at that point in time). And then it is the correlation between your execution -- relative to what actually happens that drives your profit and loss.

On the one hand, you say market profile taught you all the theory you know -- then go on to say you have moved on. I guess for many of us who never used it as a trading method in the first place -- saying you have 'moved on' comes as no surprise.

comments welcome

I agree.

It does seem a bit of a waste attending all those seminars and asking for a refund when the attendee didn't grasp/listen to the basic premise of what was being taught.

As for the indicators that have been developed since, I can't help feel that the amount of thought and time that it inevitably took to develop them would have been better spent 'in the zone' focusing on the market at how it behaves at key reference points. I'd rather rely on my intuition than a binary indicator. In my opinion, the brain can understand context way better than a multitude of indicators (or 'intelligent agents' if you prefer).

Of course, we're all different and we must respect that.

Interesting approach.

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by UrmaBlume »

Very well said and right on. As far as this forum goes, I thought I was all alone with an understanding and past exposure to this type of trading.



..... that operate on a data feed that costs more than a thousand dollars a day and that is just for the data - nothing to the infrastructure and the people to maintain the operation.

Your comments are most astute, thank you.

Don't worry Urma, you're not alone.

BTW, I have NEVER come across any feed that costs as much as this in the professional market. I don't know where you get your info, but I think someones trying to scare you with how big and powerful the bogey men are! At most, a direct feed from an exchange may cost towards a thousand PER MONTH for a small handful of users/licenses. Co-Lo is typically around 8-10k per 1/2 cage per month, and that's where the real money is for the exchange. Not the data. I hope that's useful info for you.

[bomberone1]

Hi,

I start to read trading by statistic link of jperls, is this a evolution of that theory?

[rjd007]

UrmaBlume, I have several neural net programs that I would like to run your data on. Would you be willing post your data from your indicators and charts to do some testing on?

[UrmaBlume]

Originally Posted by rjd007 »

UrmaBlume, I have several neural net programs that I would like to run your data on. Would you be willing post your data from your indicators and charts to do some testing on?

Thank you for the consideration.

We also have several neural network development tools but find that we often get better results from MARS (Multivariate Adaptive Regression Splines) from Salford Systems.

If you will refer to this thread on the Practical Application of Intelligent Agents and several others I have written on this subject you will note the value we place on preprocessing.

As to sharing our data - It wouldn't do you much good without the code for the preprocessing algorithms that produced it. Also it is the preprocessing that is the primary key to success in any such modeling endeavor and ours is proprietary.

You will find many clues to the types of inputs we use from my threads on this board but as to the work of preprocessing that will have to be up to you.

Running the data through the neural networks and building the algorithm is the easy party. What separates the models that work and those that don't is the preprocessing before and the optimizations and rules generation after.

good luck

UB

[fttb]

For anyone interested I have put these posts together (with some of the pics, though not all)