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Old 11-17-2015, 06:39 AM   #1

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Smile "HOLY GRAIL" is There or Isn't There?

for some dubious reasons,

many believe HOLY GRAIL exists in some shape or form or in some combination of setups but even more believe there is no such thing in trading; furthermore, the
majority of traders won't care much about such nonsensical utopia.

but from your personal past trading experiences, do you believe in the concept and existence of a holy grail?

if a holy grail can be defined as:

profitable trading theory, setup and/or indicator et al; that consistently produces
profitable net profit.

plse do not dwell on philosophical aspects of holy grail, which will take forever and forever to even contemplate.

just from your personal past learning, searching and trading experiences and other
relevant personal experiences--

is there or isn't there a sort of HOLY GRAIL in trading per definition above?

with full realization that most trading forums are heavily saturated, supported, sponsored and financed et al by trading educators and trading instituions completed with prop firms, just to mention a few obvious; therefore, it is never my intention to challenge, belittle, prove or disprove the benefits of each entity. i believe, each body exits, develops and progresses accoriding to demand and supplyin that particular market. so may each entity live long and profitable as well, so many wannabe traders would benefit from your generous services.

before we go on, may i assure you that this thread has nothing to sell, nothing to promote and nothing to persuade you to do or not to do anything about anything in trading or otherwise, alright.

everone is free to express your hindsight or foresight in trading concept and practices involving HOLY GRAIL VIABILITY AND EXISTENCE.

to be fair to everyone, i'll start out by saying that personally i do definitely believe in the existence of holy grail in various shape, form and/or combination of such.

my personal belief is based primarily on the obvious evidences of the current existence of a multitude of successful traders in various markets and disciplines.

we might have seen their daily real money trading accounts as they are shown on screen for every subscribers to eschew and salivate.... lol

the buring question is:

what is their secret or what is their HOLY GRAIL that enables
them to be so consistently profitable?

ANY HELP HERE, PLS?

thx much for your time and indulgence everyone.

hopefully, this thread will stimulate everyone to think harder and search more toward
discovering our own HOLY GRAIL, so each might be able to trade more profitably and more consistently with sustainability as well.

profitable trading to everyone.
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Old 11-17-2015, 01:34 PM   #2
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Re: "HOLY GRAIL" is There or Isn't There?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakachalet »
if a holy grail can be defined as:

profitable trading theory, setup and/or indicator et al; that consistently produces
profitable net profit.
Well yes, there is a "holy grail" as you've defined it (although, I think you meant to say "consistent net profit").

The problem occurs with the term "holy grail". If you are questioning if there is a system that works across all time frames, for all people, with no tactical adjustment... then I would say no. If there is, then I would imagine that the profits would be marginal, although positive, but I doubt that to be a worthwhile venture.

HFT's and Arbitrage seems to be the closest thing to the holy grail. Let me say here that I know little of either, but it seems (to me) that even those two examples would be in a constant flux to adapt to market conditions.

For a retail trader, neither of the above examples are feasible. You are left with ten thousand (a number I pulled out-a-my-ass) different ways to consistently make profits. The problem exists with the search for the personal "holy grail" is in finding the combination of things (and in dealing with yourself) that will yield consistent profits. I think you'll find that it's a daunting task to first find, and then stay in the "sweet spot" that yields consistent profits.

It is possible though... takes some effort, and trial and error.
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:52 PM   #3
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the "HOLY GRAIL" is when or Isn't what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakachalet »
plse do not dwell on philosophical aspects of holy grail, which will take forever and forever to even contemplate.
The traps you’re discussing in the parts of your post I didn’t re-quote (yet) are describing when a ‘beginning’ trader (or a trader at the 1st cusp) attempts to substitute unholy grail searching for holy grail searching...
A beginning trader who never does any grail searching misses crucial exposure to ‘self’ and critical periods of development...
... and ...



re: “forever and forever”
??? ?
You can choose to deal with your fisher king in an instant.

If you don't commit, then...




so...



Dwell.




Quote:
Originally Posted by nakachalet »
if a holy grail can be defined as:

profitable trading theory, setup and/or indicator et al; that consistently produces
profitable net profit.

...

... is there or isn't there a sort of HOLY GRAIL in trading per definition above?
The ‘myth’ is a futile 'recapture lost opportunities attempt'. The sickological dynamics are really about the whens of your own inner ‘fisher king’, not the puer's whats of the grail...
Jump to markets - if you understand when something works, the what works are obvious...

and re

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakachalet »


what is their secret or what is their HOLY GRAIL that enables
them to be so consistently profitable?

They didn’t match/align/adjust themselves to a method. Instead - Of the ‘10000’ methods jpenny mentioned, they found the method(s) that aligned with their true self...
result is not a utopia... it’s a state that is dissonance free enough for you to actually be functionally ‘consistent’, to get at the ‘underlying structures’ , that gives you the freedom to leverage your imagination
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Old 11-18-2015, 02:29 PM   #4
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Re: the "HOLY GRAIL" is when or Isn't what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdo »
They didn’t match/align/adjust themselves to a method. Instead - Of the ‘10000’ methods jpenny mentioned, they found the method(s) that aligned with their true self...
result is not a utopia... it’s a state that is dissonance free enough for you to actually be functionally ‘consistent’, to get at the ‘underlying structures’ , that gives you the freedom to leverage your imagination
"The result is not a utopia"... as we all know... there is no utopia. Everything is a trade off.

I have lamented on this site before, the struggles that I've had with trying to change the way that I trade (successfully trade). I'm very good at what I do, but... but, I recognize that my methods could be better. The problem with making the changes that I can clearly see that need to be made is that I've wrapped a trading system around myself... it's a part of who I am, and who I was... it fits me. Everything in my way (of trading) is wrapped around something. Either it is to compensate for some perceived weakness, or it is to deal with the information that I take in through my eyes and can react to at my particular speed in processing. All this "stuff' is tied together, and it's very difficult to tease out one part of it, without affecting another... it's tightly wrapped.

I have an appointment that I need to keep this afternoon, so I'll stop here (I really don't know that I have more to add). There is no utopia. For myself, I've concluded that what I do is good enough, but utopia... well no, it's not.
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Old 11-18-2015, 05:50 PM   #5

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Re: "HOLY GRAIL" is There or Isn't There?

Market dynamics are such that no one but no one can make money all the time under all conditions.

A trader who knows what he is doing has to be prepared for a bad day, month, and year.

Bad means you ended up losing money.

Knowing what you are doing takes some time and perpetual reinvention.
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:28 PM   #6
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Re: the "HOLY GRAIL" is when or Isn't what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdo »
A beginning trader who never does any grail searching misses crucial exposure to ‘self’ and critical periods of development...
Back to this "holy grail" thing...

To offer some backfill and explain: When I took up trading, I was a man of 50 years. I had been successful in other ventures in my life, and I had the money and the time to take on "this trading thing". Good for me... so what? When first starting out; you don't know, what you don't know. Thus, the impetus to know everything.

I have a book cart full of trading books... 95% of which I wouldn't recommend even to people I don't like. The price for each of these books would range from $25 to $75. I have about 30. You come up with an aggregate price of $1500 for the mix. If there were an answer there... $1500 and the time to read it all would be dirt cheap.

I have spent countless hours, reading on the web, visiting sites such as TL. I've studied Gann, Fibonacci, Pitchforks, Bollinger, Guppy (and on). Now, I would not speak badly of any of it. If any of this stuff works for you, then good enough, and do understand that whatever tool you use, if you know how to use it, it is probably going to be effective.

The thing with books about trading, and the adjoining search for the "holy grail" that goes on with so many just starting out, is that it fosters (can foster) critical thinking skills, and in general, a fascination with the market and price action. This is good stuff, that you can carry with you, and even better is the sorting process that one must go through... again critical thinking.

So, I don't know... the search for the "holy grail"? In a round-about way probably a good thing for what it's worth, but you should (and hopefully will) come to the conclusion that you don't need the "holy grail" to make money in the markets.

Edit: I have a computer that is stored in a closet with all the work I did in the search for the "holy grail". I've got some stuff that would blow your hair back, and I thought about writing a book. End of the day... it would be just another book that I would toss in with the 95% of the books in my book cart. But... it "was" worth the time... enough said...
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Last edited by jpennybags; 11-19-2015 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 11-19-2015, 04:04 PM   #7
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Parsifal MUST search!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpennybags »
I have a book cart full of trading books...
...

I have spent countless hours ...
Parsifal MUST search!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpennybags »
I have a book cart full of trading books...
...

I have spent countless hours ...
...

But... it "was" worth the time... enough said...
On a more practical level, that is the ‘elementary school’ of trading
When I look back on elementary school it seems like a waste of time... however, if nothing else, the three R’s were mastered.
...and even the most gifted among us do better with the three R’s under their belt.

A trader cannot differentiate, discriminate, ...and assimilate, utilize, enhance trading methods he or she has never been exposed to...

In my view, the ‘voice of trading’ actively discourages the search... with incessant promises that there is ‘nothing to be found’ ... certainly no ‘grail’ . That is a form of mind control that pretends depth doesn’t exist. Jon Rappoport calls it “the thinning of context” ...

"Speed hides need. Nothing is as easy as it looks, when it’s done quickly; nor as difficult as it feels, when it’s done slowly. If you can’t perform it slowly enough, you haven’t developed it well enough. Slow makes smooth; smooth makes fast. Let speed come from skill, not as a substitute for it." Scott Sonnon

Parsifal MUST search!
Parsifal comes to a natural and adaptive end to the search... he needed it ... then he outgrows it.

"dwell" bitches
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