[dalby]

all studies of price/volume, or aggregates of same (tick, etc.) are TA.

asking if TA works is like asking if surgery works - sometimes, and if in the right hands.

but it's not 100% and there is a fair amount of subjectivity to decisions

the one thing that drives me NUTS is when people say that technical analysts believe, or that TA implies that ALL knowledge is "priced in". that's stupid. all that is necessary for TA to work is that enough information is "priced in" such that one can make plays with positive expectancy.

it does not follow that ALL fundies etc. are priced in. that's as absurd as efficient market theory is absurd,and for the same reasons.

[dalby]

soultrader, you contradict yourself. you argue that TA does not work in a particular instance, then support the fact that it does

market profile is TA

so are pivot points

as well as patterns (i don't use patterns much either)

but they are ALL ta

[walterw]

dalby : I think that what Soul wants to mean is that TA by itself its meaningless.... the market performance as he call it " price is king" is the true reality and TA its just a way of looking at it... thats what I understand as the spirit of the thread... cheers Walter.

[dalby]

"My biggest question is this: do technical analysis work when day trading the futures markets? From my personal experience specializing in the dow mini futures, the answer is no. Let me explain"

that's what i'm responding to. that's a pretty clear statement. he said TA does nt work when day trading the futures market. then, goes on to say how it DOES work - iow, contradiction.

fwiw, the study of PRICE is TA.

if ALL you are watching is tape (the purest way to see just price and nothing else) no charts, no indicators, etc.

that's TA

pivot points, support/resistance, etc.

TA

[walterw]

yes probably we would get into a stupid semantic discussion of what is TA .... now being an indicator junki and not understanding what the market its doing would be the negative TA interpretation, as being wise of what the market does and use a pair of good sound tools would be the positive TA interpretation... I think we all agree with that... put the name you more like it... but thats the lesson here... cheers Walter.

[Kiwi]

I'm with dalby.

Most arguments against TA are generated by first defining TA in some limiting way. And said limitations are almost always as wrong as they are convenient to the arguer. Now James's offence is less egregious than usual but he's still doing it. Bad boy Soul.

If its based on price or price an volume or some combination of these then its technical analysis.

FWIW I trade based on Price alone using a couple of mas as a prop to help me see what longer time traders perceive as recent value in a trend. No volume. No market profile. No volume at bid/ask. No reading action on the dom. Just nice bar charts with a couple of mas to prop up my sense of current value. It works on usindexes, commodities, bonds, estx50, bund, eurfx, nikkei, kospi and that fiend that would have pleased fu manchu, the HSI

[dalby]

i hate semantical wanks as well

i see a lot of people who use TA (especially market profile) want to distinguish THEIR form of TA (the alleged scientific non-voodoo kind) from other TA

the simplest way to look at it is - if it's not fundamental analysis - it's probably TA

and if it relies on price, or any derivative of same - it's TA.

thus, market profile is TA (although most MP users hate to admit that) etc.

fwiw, i love TA. and i trade the dow minis intraday

i also love fundies. i have bought some investments without even looking at any charts whatsoever.

but i would not do that with an intraday futures trade, needless to say

[brownsfan019]

Originally Posted by dalby »

i hate semantical wanks as well

i see a lot of people who use TA (especially market profile) want to distinguish THEIR form of TA (the alleged scientific non-voodoo kind) from other TA

the simplest way to look at it is - if it's not fundamental analysis - it's probably TA

and if it relies on price, or any derivative of same - it's TA.

I didn't realize certain types of traders using some form of TA argue that 'their' form of TA is not actually TA. Makes no sense to me whatsoever. If you are using price, some form of charting, and some analysis that does not look at market fundamentals, that's TA as far as I am concerned. It's either TA or FA, right? So, unless you are reading company reports, checking PE ratios, etc. you are using TA.