[DbPhoenix]

Originally Posted by firewalker »

Because most of us don't like trading when the volume is next to zero.

The volume here is lower than last week, where if I recall correctly you said you would stay out of the market all week because the moves were more 'random' than the result of trading behaviour...

That was last week. This is the end of the quarter, and we opened dead on resistance.

The range of the old lady today is actually worth more than the whole range of the NQ, in terms of absolute value.

Doesn't really matter what the range is if it isn't being traded.

My point was and is that while the NQ was bouncing around from support to resistance on multiple levels like a pinball, the general consensus was that nothing was going on and nothing was worth trading. This may have been the case with the ES, but, again, if that's the case, why focus on the ES in the first place?

[firewalker]

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

That was last week. This is the end of the quarter, and we opened dead on resistance.

Perhaps, but I did see a couple of good trades last week too, especially on Monday and Tuesday. What difference does end of quarter make?

As for opening dead on resistance, I don't see it that way... Imho, 1178 was potential support: (a) we had the PDC, (b) we had the lows on the 26th where price reversed and (c) we had two reactions there on the shortened trading day on the 24th. But I guess this isn't about what I saw...

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

Doesn't really matter what the range is if it isn't being traded.

With all due respect, despite the lack of real trades, there are still people looking at the charts all day like that_one_guy.

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

My point was and is that while the NQ was bouncing around from support to resistance on multiple levels like a pinball, the general consensus was that nothing was going on and nothing was worth trading. This may have been the case with the ES, but, again, if that's the case, why focus on the ES in the first place?

Although I can't speak for the rest, I mentioned the possibility of going long after the news around 872 with the eye on resistance at or around 886. As it turns out, price spent three quarters of the day in a tight 5-point range, but did eventually reach the destination. Personally, I don't like that kind of dullness, but that's just me. End of day, it was worth 15 points and I should've taken it instead of just talking about it.

I agree the NQ provided more opportunities from both sides today, but the same can be said about last week. Some people didn't like it then, some people don't like it now...

[DbPhoenix]

Not looking for an argument. Just trying to understand the lure of the ES. Whether I do or not, though, isn't all that important.

[atto]

In all seriousness, I'm not particularly biased from one or the other (I traded more NQ over the summer). I was making more money on ES, so have focused on that one more. In error? Possibly.

[jasont]

Honestly this conversation is about as productive as suggesting one should trade FX because it makes big moves more commonly than Futures. The lure of the ES is that some people, myself being one of them, is that they understand its movement better than other markets. Hence they can pull more money from it than other markets, independent of how much that particular market moves, in a range sense.

The market traded really is obsolete if one can pull money from it. All that really matters is that one can consistently pull money and then size positions accordingly. Let's not forget 10 YM points and 2.5 NQ points equal 1 ES point. But really, who cares how much it moves if one can pull consistent funds from it.

I placed a couple of simulation trades yesterday to keep my mind sharp over the break. There was points to be made but I am the first to say it was painful waiting for things to set up as it resembled grass growing. 5.25 points movement on the ES in 45 minutes and 7.5 points movement in the NQ is hardly riveting. That being said, there were points to be made.

The pits yesterday were less than 30% full, really I don't think anyone could expect anything more until next week at least. In all fairness Db, my opinion is that this week being the end of the quarter is no different to last week. All the big guys have tied up their loose ends prior to last week and are now on holidays.

Also, isn't resistance and support made by the players in the game? Therefore if the players who are trading according to that support and resistance aren't there, wouldn't that make it less important to trade?

[DbPhoenix]

Originally Posted by jasont »

Also, isn't resistance and support made by the players in the game? Therefore if the players who are trading according to that support and resistance aren't there, wouldn't that make it less important to trade?

Again, I'm not looking for an argument. I acknowledge your reasons for trading the ES and leave it at that.

But as for the traders who are trading S/R not "being there", somebody was trading, and they prompted two reversals and two breakouts, all of which were worth trading.

It looks like tomorrow we'll be opening again at another resistance level, which may make the morning, at least, worth trading. Won't know till then. If the volume is there at those levels, as it was today, I see no reason not to trade them.

[jasont]

Understood Db. I agree that there were opportunities for trading and that obviously traders were there. I suppose it just comes down to what one looks for in a market and what their requirements are.

[firewalker]

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

Again, I'm not looking for an argument. I acknowledge your reasons for trading the ES and leave it at that.

But as for the traders who are trading S/R not "being there", somebody was trading, and they prompted two reversals and two breakouts, all of which were worth trading.

It looks like tomorrow we'll be opening again at another resistance level, which may make the morning, at least, worth trading. Won't know till then. If the volume is there at those levels, as it was today, I see no reason not to trade them.

No argument, just an exchange of thoughts...

I agree there were good enough opportunities to trade, but the same can be said about last week. Which prompts the question what makes this week different from then, when you considered the market more random than normal?