[TheDude]

Read The Futures Game by Teweles. There are several studies in there of brokerage accounts that confirmed 80% fail. Most of these studies were done in the 1960's-80's. ie before day trading.

Given the huge rise in day trading, false education and FX bucket shops, I can well believe the number has increased from 80% to 90%.


BTW, the 80% failure rate was usually within the first 6 months.

[emg]

Originally Posted by wrbtrader »

There's no single reason why the few are consistently profitable and why so many are consistently losing. Thus, there are many reasons for each individual trader.

Also, most traders can't handle the fact that it takes an entire (complete) trading plan (e.g. money management, proper capitalization, proper trading environment, discipline, good trade method and so on) to determine is he/she will be profitable or a loser because on any given trading day one of those things will be more important than the other components in the trading plan.

Therefore, most prefer to concentrate on one thing like their trade method instead of ensuring everything else in the trading plan is working smoothly together especially when things go wrong (losses). That's why there are many traders running around saying there's one reason only because they treat their own trading that way...to only get confused when they determine they were wrong and then they start looking again for another primary (number #1) reason.

Thus, you need to take with a grain of salt what the thread starter (emg) has been saying at various different trading forums on the internet amongst many different message posts in saying the following...

#1 reason why traders lose is because they are under-capitalized

Week later he will then say the following...

#1 reason why traders lose is because of their broker

Week later he saids the following...

#1 reason why traders lose is because they're using unregulated vendors

Week later he saids the following...

#1 reason why traders lose is because they're gambling

Week later he saids the following...

#1 reason why traders lose is because they use TA

There's other #1 reasons but you get my point.

.................u in here???????

[wrbtrader]

Originally Posted by pipsaholic »

I don't believe the 90% lose money because there is no reliable source or independent research or study that has been done that confirms this so I feel it’s a marketing gimmick to put most people off at trading...

Depending upon which statistical research you're willing to side with...most say the average failure rate of a business is around 80% along with failing within 3 years.

Therefore, the failure rate must be higher for traders because most traders are trading with a trade method but without a trading plan let alone a business plan to manage their trading in comparison to most business that do fail while having a business plan.

In addition, look at all the trade journals you see online...most don't last beyond a few months and only about 10% of them are profitable during those few months in reference to those that have verification about the daily results. Further, the forum members that say they are full-time trading...most of them are gone within a few years.

Simply, only a small percentage of traders are profitable in reference to those that are part-time or full-time and not those that are hobbyist nor those that are drive-by shooters.

[MightyMouse]

There are no decent stats to determine who wins and who loses. The poll at the top of the page indicates that more people make a living trading than those who don't. The 80 or 90% figures include the one and done traders, the ill advised, etc.

The more interesting stat to me would involve only traders who have traded for at least 5 years or perhaps longer. I would like to know what their stats are.What they earned as a percentage of capital, how many were profitable, etc.

[pipsaholic]

Originally Posted by wrbtrader »

Depending upon which statistical research you're willing to side with...most say the average failure rate of a business is around 80% along with failing within 3 years.

Therefore, the failure rate must be higher for traders because most traders are trading with a trade method but without a trading plan let alone a business plan to manage their trading in comparison to most business that do fail while having a business plan.

In addition, look at all the trade journals you see online...most don't last beyond a few months and only about 10% of them are profitable during those few months in reference to those that have verification about the daily results. Further, the forum members that say they are full-time trading...most of them are gone within a few years.

Simply, only a small percentage of traders are profitable in reference to those that are part-time or full-time and not those that are hobbyist nor those that are drive-by shooters.

I agree that most businesses fail within 3 years, but to attribute that to traders this 90-99% figure is wrong as many people including myself would not enter this industry if that were the case. Also, do you understand that a lot of traders stay away from forums and only for the advanced who know how to trade? I have seen many traders on live chat rooms banking in the pips most of them with the odd loser and to say 95% of them are losers is outright wrong. Also, what does it mean by failure rate blowing an account or losing a few dollars here and there?? I am fed up hearing this and will not accept it surely with these forums and help on the net there are more communication and discussions to become successful than unsuccessful.

[wrbtrader]

Originally Posted by pipsaholic »

I agree that most businesses fail within 3 years, but to attribute that to traders this 90-99% figure is wrong as many people including myself would not enter this industry if that were the case. Also, do you understand that a lot of traders stay away from forums and only for the advanced who know how to trade? I have seen many traders on live chat rooms banking in the pips most of them with the odd loser and to say 95% of them are losers is outright wrong. Also, what does it mean by failure rate blowing an account or losing a few dollars here and there?? I am fed up hearing this and will not accept it surely with these forums and help on the net there are more communication and discussions to become successful than unsuccessful.

I doubt most "potential traders" would run the other way prior to taking the big leap into trading if they read messages by anonymous strangers at forums saying "most traders will fail".

I don't know what chat rooms you've been visiting but the chat rooms and forums I've visited have most traders "losing" in regards to the part-time and full-time traders. In contrast, most of the hobbyist traders and drive-by-shooters (traders)...they seem to be profitable but that may be due to the fact its very difficult to keep track of the latter types of traders.

I've been visiting free chat rooms consistently since 1999.

In addition, there have been brokers that have stated most of their clients are not making money. Further, there have trading competitions where the results of most in trading competitions did not make a profit. Also, as a reminder, most to the trade journals I've read that have verification of the trades...most were not profitable.

Regardless to our difference in perspective...it doesn't matter if its 20% or 90% that don't make it beyond the first critical 3 years. Your goal is to not become one of them.

[SIUYA]

Originally Posted by pipsaholic »

I agree that most businesses fail within 3 years, but to attribute that to traders this 90-99% figure is wrong as many people including myself would not enter this industry if that were the case. .......... I am fed up hearing this and will not accept it surely with these forums and help on the net there are more communication and discussions to become successful than unsuccessful.

fine......as wrb says. The percentages are irrelevant your job is to avoid being a loser. period.

But as a suggestion.....an attitude/viewpoint like this - "I will not accept it" means come on in. the industry needs people who wont accept things for others that do to suceeed.