Comments on IOAMT??

[turboscottomatic]

I've been starting to do some reading regarding Market Profile concepts as something to add as the next evolution in my trading methods. I've been lurking here and there and I hear positive things said about The Institute of Auction Market Theory (IOAMT) and Bill Druyea as good, solid training in MP/Volume-based methods. Anyone here have any insight into this service? The website gives almost no info other than the opportunity for a 5 day free trial. My understanding is that he is a successful very short term (1-2 pt ES scalps common) trader. This fits my own style and risk tolerance.

I would take the free trial, but can't make proper use of it now, as I have a day job that gets into my way. I will be quitting my day job in Sept and taking my small-ish hard-earned trading account to try to make it as full-time trader. I'm not a newbie but not a pro yet either. Can anyone give me some insight regarding the IOAMT experience? Such as: are there expensive seminars to buy or simply a chatroom fee? Is the education solid and useful? Are there software or indicators to buy? In other words, is he primarily a teacher or a seller of things? What is the structure of Bill's teaching? How much will I be spending for an IOAMT education? Are you happy with your experience there? Are you nicely profitable and consistent (I'm not looking for details or statements!) Any downside? I appreciate any info you can give me about your experience with him and it's impact on you as a trader. I'm not shy about spending for value received, but would like to know about costs upfront and know I am getting what I am after. Thanks in advance....

Scott Johnson

[momentom]

Hi Scott

I have heard good things about IOAMT from a trader I resspect but have had no personal experience.

I would also suggest a look see at jpjtrading.com. I've done his free trial and he is the real deal for MP. You do 3 months in his room @ $300/month and then its free. JP has specific MP setups to trade. His room is in awe of him for the way he trades.

I've no connection to JP other than as above.

[turboscottomatic]

Thanks for your input, Momentom. I appreciate it. JPJ is another that I have been looking at and seems to have a good reputation. I'm glad to hear positive things from you about JP. As a matter of fact, the short list I've created for good, MP-type training is this (in no particular order):

JPJ Trading
Alexander Trading
Institute of Acution Market Theory
Cisco Futures (Don Jones)

I've put this together from comments on this site as well as a few other forums. The reason I asked about IOAMT specifically is that their website is not very informative re: what you get, what you pay, what the expectations are, etc.

Also, from looking at JPJ's site, it looks like they tend to try to pick a position early in the day and ride it for some time, with 1 or 2 or 3 trades a day. With my own trading personality, I know that can sometimes make me squirm to keep a trade that long. I'm more a 5 minute kind of guy, and I think that is more along the lines of IOAMT does (so I've heard)....('Course, maybe I NEED TO LEARN to keep a trade longer and stop giving my broker so much! )

If you don't mind, why didn't you stay for more than the trial at JPJ? What's his trading style (how many/day, how long, markets, etc)? Did you find it true that he keeps the same trade on for much of the day?

Thanks,
Scott

[TinGull]

IM definitely interested to hear some about jpj. That completely fits my style of trading. I'd much rather take 1-2 trades a day than 7-10.

Its odd that they only do free trials like 2-3 times a year, though. next one is in August....

[maildigger]

I've had a free trial ... it tells you nothing! You get access to the room but you only hear the guy yelling You need to take the course (probably?) to understand what he's doing.

[TinGull]

How much MP knowledge did you have prior to the room?

[turboscottomatic]

Maildigger -

Thanks for the reply. Are you talking about Bill Duryea and IOAMT? If so, I see he has a blurb about an "Introductory MP Course" on the front page (WITHOUT any further description) for $295...Is there more and more to buy, or what?
From your time in the room, can you tell me:

Was there some structure (ie, coursework, structured studying) available to help you understand what he was yelling in the room?
What is the ongoing charge for the room?
Is he trying to sell a bunch of other stuff as well (seminars, indicators, software packages, newsletters, etc)
Is he making real money, real time, trading a real account in the room?
In your opinion, is this gent primarily a trader who is trying to train others to trade OR a vendor trying to sell things to people?

Thanks in advance.....Enquiring minds want to know!

Scott

[alleyb]

First off let me declare an interest.
1stly I am alleyb who wrote Chapter 17 for John Carter.
2ndly I participate almost daily with Billy in the IOAMT room as a presenter. I have no financial interest in IOAMT but Billy frequently urges me to place my own website link in his room and I have received a few paid sign-ups that way. I have also once in Sept last year done a paid presentation that was billed at 4 hours but lasted over 7 due to attendees demand
3rdly I am the author of MP101 and MP102 the former is no longer availale at the CBOT website unfortunately but both are available free from my own site

Billy has a free course on the front page of his site. It is a well written document. It states it has a $295 value but its free and despite it saying it is for a limited time has been available for well over a year. Take it and be your own judge

Billy trades and has done for over 10 years. He is an extraordinary tape reader who despite a sometimes caustic (sometimes viewed by people as rude) and autocratic style - But in that respect over the last couple of years he has actually improved from the I'm the coach method to a more congenial way of discussion - actually explains throughout the whole day the unfolding auction. He explains in full detail not just viewing the bid/ask analyzer but with properly detailed charts the process of trading, what to expect and how it looks both in theory and in practice

Billy runs the occassional week long teach-ins where previous paid attendees can particpate again for free. On average he has done 3 per year charging if my memory serves me correct $1500. It is an intense course which almost never seems to end.

Billy trades exclusively the E-Mini
Billy's style is to grab the first point then look for the 2nd point then hope that he has trade location to hold for more. He used to use a scale-in method that he no longer shows as for most especially undercapitalized traders that is an inappropriate way of trading.

Billy explains as it is unfolding not after the event with clear precise information and explanation showing a bid/ask analyzer footprint chart which is akin to a point and figure but with volume displayed. Some have described it as being similar to market delta's volume chart but it it is different and as I do not wish to get into a subjective discussion of which is better so the best way is to take the trial and see for yourslef.

Billy does promote the genesis software but purely because they carry a copy of the bid/ask analyzer that he designed (and was coded for him by someone else named Eric who also is in the room occassionally) and uses. The genesis one though is very slightly different to billy's own copy - that he shows in the room - as it is an on-going project

I do not know what Billy charges for membership to his room but I believe it is 250 p.m. - right now he has approx 60 people, he peaked at around 110 late last year, he does a daily commentary for the SFO mag that is posted on their website.
Membership is not just access to his room but also allows you to see the database that he has created on his website that covers the 4 U.S. indices with incredible information which is statistically based and calculated in terms of supoort and resistance levels together with a 5 minute delayed bid/ask analyszer that shows the unfolding auction together with emerging value. It is impossible to do it justice in just a few short words here.

I compliment Billy in that his ultra-short term scalp style of trading is the anti-thesis of what I do which is to take the traditional market profile chart and analyze it in terms of the longer term trader and his position to establish a short term trade that begins with a scalp but if it starts to work ie trade location is gained then it becomes a swing position looking for in reality just a couple of trades per day on which a structural position can be built

[turboscottomatic]

Alleyb -
My hat is off to you. That is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Thank you for a thoughtful, unvarnished account of your experience in Bill's IOAMT room.

Scott

[momentom]

I didn't stay because I learnt MP from Pete Steidlmayer over 15 years ago and did not see anything at JPs room I did not know. Also, I'm allergic to trading rooms.

One thing I'd like to emphasise, JP's room is the only MP room I have seen that teaches you setups you can use in real trading, not just wishy washy theory but practical ways to see setups and pull the trigger. Don't be put off by the "longer" trades because its not quite like that in practice. JP's phylosophy is to scale out of trades and to make his position a risk free trade ASAP.

You only see him trade in the free trial - no free give aways but this is probably one of the few rooms I'd sign up for.

	Quote:	turboscottomatic
	Thanks for your input, Momentom. I appreciate it. JPJ is another that I have been looking at and seems to have a good reputation. I'm glad to hear positive things from you about JP. As a matter of fact, the short list I've created for good, MP-type training is this (in no particular order): JPJ Trading Alexander Trading Institute of Acution Market Theory Cisco Futures (Don Jones) I've put this together from comments on this site as well as a few other forums. The reason I asked about IOAMT specifically is that their website is not very informative re: what you get, what you pay, what the expectations are, etc. Also, from looking at JPJ's site, it looks like they tend to try to pick a position early in the day and ride it for some time, with 1 or 2 or 3 trades a day. With my own trading personality, I know that can sometimes make me squirm to keep a trade that long. I'm more a 5 minute kind of guy, and I think that is more along the lines of IOAMT does (so I've heard)....('Course, maybe I NEED TO LEARN to keep a trade longer and stop giving my broker so much! ) If you don't mind, why didn't you stay for more than the trial at JPJ? What's his trading style (how many/day, how long, markets, etc)? Did you find it true that he keeps the same trade on for much of the day? Thanks, Scott