Fear of Success

[james_gsx]

Yes, I am starting yet another thread

So most of my life, friends and family seem to have decided that I would be the "successful" "rich" one. I would grow up to be very wealthy, blablabla. Although it's nice to constantly hear, "when you make it and you have tons of money" I am starting to wonder if it's actually holding me back. I hear it so often, I sometimes wonder if I really can be wealthy? I feel as if I have a lot of boot to fill, sorta speak.

This crosses over to trading. I have noticed (yet not said anything until now) that I greatly understand many concepts, charts, etc. Yet, when it comes to doing things real time I hold myself back and let myself get emotional. Like Soultrader said in another thread that the successful trader has a constant hunger to be successful and come out on top. I am a very competitive person at heart, at work I always strive to sell the most and be on top no matter what I do, sports, selling, whatever. But at trading, I seem to want to prevent myself from being successful.

For example, I will make some great trades, then doubt myself and make some stupid trades. After this eats me away, I feel like I don't know enough and I want to learn more and I set myself aside. I get so close to a goal, then I somehow purposefully take a step back. I can honestly say I've never accomplished a true long-term goal. I set them, get halfway, then I get bored and do something else.

For my age (19), I am probably pretty successful. I have a $30,000 car that I pay for myself (loan is in my name). I wear designer clothes and not Abercrombie, things like Armani, Prada, etc and it all comes out of my own wallet. But I refuse to believe I am actually successful, I always feel like there is something eating me up inside and I'm not quite there. But when I get "there" I purposefully miss the opportunity. It's like some self destructive path (better yet a game my subconscious mind plays with me), and it's been going on my entire life. Take high school, I didn't do anything the entire 4 years (except study the markets) because for some reason I unconsciously thought getting an A was overrated so I opted for the easy C - I never did my homework yet I always got an A on the tests. I knew that was enough to get by, I never wanted to be the good student.

When I used to work at Best Buy my goal was always to work in Magnolia Home Theater. I would get very close, then something would click in my head and I would stop striving for the spot - thus missing it. This went on for nearly 2 years. I did so well selling Digital SLRs they sent me to Dallas for a training - yet after the training I slacked off and felt no more reason to keep going - I was bored. Again, people always expected me to be moved back to Magnolia, yet I kept doing something to prevent myself from going back there.

This constant pressure of success from everyone close to me, almost makes me scared to be successful. I know I can be a good trader, but I honestly feel like I hold myself back from being successful on purpose. I don't really know how else to explain it, maybe someone has gone through this in their lifetime and can give me some tips.

[Nvesta81]

One thing I've learned in my relatively short time trading the markets (I'm 26) is that trying to rush things or being too eager to achieve can really damage your portfolio and your spirit. This is a patient man's game, you have to take what the markets are willing to give you and just feel comfortable advancing at what seems a slow pace, if you can do that, you may even notice that you're moving forward much faster than it actually seems. Things happen so fast in the markets (intra-day) that your life may seem like it is in slow motion in comparison trying to grab every penny you can squeeze from it. But at your age time is really on your side! I consider myself young to be trading and you've got a pretty big head-start, you have all the opportunity in the world to become successful... time is definitely on your side, but just remember to stay cool and collected, in the end the turtle wins the race in this racket.

It's good to be ambitious and to put a bit of pressure on yourself, but sometimes it helps not to focus too much on the destination and just enjoy the journey...

Good luck.

[TinGull]

I went through this exact same thing and very recently have started to really come out of it. Once again, I'll plug Anthony Robbins book "Unlimited Power" because it was one of the biggest helps to me in trading and in life. Also, my coach always says...trade with 1 contract. You aren't going to blow up your account with one contract.

James, you've got the knowledge, the skills, the plan...the "everything" you need to become a great trader. You first need to ask yourself: Are you much more than you're demonstrating? A couple of weeks ago I asked myself that. I know I've got the skills to pay the bills, I just didn't have the "courage" to always pull the trigger. Am I much more than I am demonstrating now? Sure, I am. I've still got a ways to go, but the most important thing is I KNOW I am there. I'm not close...the goal isn't just out of arms reach...my goal has been reached. Now I just expand upon that goal of being successful.

So ask yourself: In this moment in time, are you successful? Absolutely! You still have a trading account right? You're young, have a great car and other material things, too. When you wake up, think of those things and ask yourself "Am I successful, right now in this very moment?" ABSOLUTELY! The more you keep telling yourself that you're successful (not that "one day I want to be successful") the more success you're going to breed.

A fellow trader on this board said to me recently "Chris, get it out of your head that you aren't a success yet. You may not have the money yet, but realize you haven't blown out a single account and you've been at it for over a year" (including options trading...10months on minis). So many people will blow out an account and give up. And that happens lots of times within the first few months. So...am I successful for being above water still? Absolutely!

Success isn't dependent wealth, nor is wealth dependent on success. Don't measure your success in terms of dollars! While it's great to have fancy things and all, you really want to get to a point where you measure your success by the amount of value you can add into other people's lives. So, maybe instead of thinking "I'm successful when I have a million dollars" I tend to think "I'm successful when I am able to teach others what I know to get them to where I am...independent". I personally don't need craploads of cash. I live in a teeny place and my girl and I share one car (Scion xA), are extremely frugal, grow most of what we eat ourselves so we don't' have to buy stuff at the store...my success is measured in terms of what I can give back. And this board helps me give just a little each day, so lots of my success lies here.

Hope that helps. Thanks for letting me ramble on!

[Soultrader]

You are definitely on a good start in terms of being young. One thing though I learned though.... as I aged over the years I became alot more fearful and conservative. I used to be fearless because I didnt know any better and didnt have anything to lose. Now, I have alot more responsibility and reputation that I am keen on preserving. At times I do wish I could gain that momentum back. However, patience was learned through experience and time. Which is definitely a positive in the trading game.

I am currently 25.. just turned 25 last month. I started my first business at 18, which flunked miserably. Attempted the same business at 20 and did extremely well. Dealt with rare sneakers and apparel. I started playing poker professionally from around 18-19 and built my first trading stake through my poker and business income. Got too absorbed with poker and my biz... as I had zero money when I first went to the US for school. Left college, started day trading, now trading for a firm. In the end, I think if you want something badly you will figure out a way. It is all in the mindset... enough energy into thoughts turn into action. If you really want success in trading, you will start to become alot more aware of the things you do that prevents success. Like Livermore said... "Once you realize what not to do to lose money, you start to win." I think for traders that struggle, admitting to your faults and taking full responsibility is a big challenge. Once you are able to clear that hurdle, you really get into the mindset of treating trading as a business. Trading used to be, well... trading for the first 2 years. Now... its 100% work. 12 hours day in day out is what I put into this game.

Sometimes ppl just need a little trigger. In Japanese we call it "Ki' ka ke". Its that chance, opportunity, kick, spark that allows ppl to bloom. Whether it be an environment surrounded by better traders, a trading mentor, etc... dont hold out something you know that will help you. Prolonging your step to success I think is the biggest waste of time. I tend to learn everything in life the hard way.... definitely not proud of it and would avoid it if I could. But I do take pride in my experience.

Good luck to you.

[Dogpile]

a couple of points:

you need to get it out of your head what others say about you and take responsibility for yourself. it is not their fault that you are not living up to your own standards. forget that entire excuse.

also, I think you need to think less about the money and more about the set-ups. The set-ups are what matters. From John Carters Mastering The Trade:
"Whenever I focused on the set-ups and not the results, I did fine. But whenever I focused on the results and not the set-ups, I got killed."

Think about why you made the trade you did and if you think you had valid reasons for doing it at the time or was it impulsive. If it had good logic and fit your gameplan and the set-up met your pre-defined filters and you still lost money, you should be able to live with that. If it was impulsive, then realize that you made a mistake and you should expect to lose money on impulsive trades. Impulsive trades -- the ones that work and the ones that don't -- when totaled throughout your lifetime, will end up as one big massive loss.

[brownsfan019]

James_gsx - first, take a breather brother! You are NINETEEN YRS OLD and light years ahead of your trading 'competition'. I'd suggest making sure you are first enjoying your youth as you'll be an adult soon enough. Seriously, enjoy it.

As for holding yourself back, it seems you have at least diagnosed the problem. Now work on it. If you catch yourself doing something stupid, take a step back and say 'what would brownsfan019' do? He'd tell you to pick up your skirt, grab your balls and make some freakin money already. You've got the talent and skills OBVIOUSLY, so stop making excuses and close the deal.

That's the adult, salesman approach that I was very good at years ago. You'll get plenty of that soon enough.

You need to realize that at 19 yrs old you are way ahead of the game, so now finetune that and you'll be a multi-millionaire by 30 is my prediction, if you stay on your game. There you go, I just did it to you - go get 'em tiger!

[james_gsx]

Well I had a lot of time to think about it today, I went into work just to be told to come back at 1. Thanks boss, I missed the rally. I set all my swing trades last night, so I'm going to let them unfold and sit on the sidelines and watch. I also drove to the private airport near my house and watched all the lear jets, it tends to give me a lot of motivation.

Brownsfan you're absolutely right, I've noticed that my fear of success could probably be linked to fear of failure. If I'm not successful, I'll feel like I let everyone down. But I need to just get some balls and get it done already.

Thanks for the input guys, it helped a lot. I really need to figure out how I can view my trading as my own personal business and not just something I love to do. I believe once I move into my office and am around other traders that will finally click in my head. But I'm definitely more motivated today then I was yesterday, and I just have to make that last.

[Nick1984]

I see trading as just another business personally. I work in the financial services industry and have just started trading. I swing trade stocks and just started futures.

I had a similar situation where I was always built up to be the successful one among family and friends etc and it can be nerve racking. About a year ago I developed the mind set that I dont give a rats arse about what anyone thinks anymore. That has helped me heaps. The less I care about what others think the more I was able to focus on myself and I have a set plan now to build up my own financial future.

As I write this now I'm enjoying this rally hehe sorry you missed it.

Anyhoo, I think that you need to try and relax. Your still really young and you shouldn't stress about these things now. You have your whole life ahead of you to stress about success or failure. Once you get married as well no matter how well you do your wife will put you in your place lol so just relax and have fun doing what you do now!

[james_gsx]

haha I only missed out on the rally with futures. I bought QQQQ yesterday on the dip to the 8 EMA and a whole bunch of other stuff, I knew the breakout was coming it was just a matter of when. Several of my stocks broke out too and the signals to buy are in, but considering we are near the R3 I am going to wait to pick them up. I don't want to buy at the top when I know it might be the top - that doesn't seem to smart to me. But at least I know the stocks are in the right position. A couple of my stocks are up +5% today, so it's a good day

I know I have a lot of life to live, but I want to retire young and teach high school students with the same ambition as me how to trade. I want to teach them what I learn over the years, and give them the same chance a dear friend gave me.

[thetradingdoctor]

Thank you so much, James, for stepping up and sharing your experience, strength, hope and fears with us!

These are all wonderful answers and suggestions for James. The harsh reality is that a large percentage of traders (some say 80-90%) fail. There are many reasons for this. The main reason is that they do not have a tested trading strategy and plan which they adhere to with rigorous discipline. They cut winners and let losers run. Right now, the markets are rallying like there is no tomorrow, so it's easy to hide. The true test of trading is not how much money you make, rather how much money you keep.
Right now, we are in a global boom of unprecedented proportions. The markets are rallying like there is no tomorrow. A large number of fund managers today were not even trading in the 80's and 90's. They have not seen the devastation of the bear. This is where the rubber will hit the road. Right now, it's party time and it feels fantastic! It is when the cycles change that the true mettle of the trader will become apparent.

Apologies for that mini-rant, because I actually forgot to say what I have learned. In my experience, some 50% of traders actually want to lose. I know that sounds hideous and horrible and difficult to believe, but I have seen it now for over 13 years. There are many reasons for this, most of them related to subconcious issues which are deep and difficult to dissect.

That said, I believe that if one is truly "called" to trading, willing to put in the really hard work and long hours, and to stay true to discipline, that person can make it through any type of market atmosphere.

Trading is a business, just like any other business. You are young, James and you have time to really look at what you are doing and why you are doing it. Always have a business plan. Learn discipline and stick with it. Most importantly, follow your own passion. Your life belongs to you and to no one else. What other people think of you is really none of your business unless you make it so.

One of your greatest challenges will be the influence that others have over you and your need to belong and have people like you. The other challenge you will have is your tendency to be a bit contrary, stubborn and somewhat defiant of authority. That said, please don't ever be afraid to speak your own truth and stand in your own integrity. You are blessed with youth, drive and spirit. Please use it wisely as it is a gift and this time will never come again for you. A great trader needs self-compassion, humility and a killer instinct.
If you think about those three qualities, you may see why so many do not make it.

We get too soon old and too late smart. Start smart and get smarter. The future belongs to you, James, so please use it wisely.

Thank you again for the opportunity to share with you. It is a privilege for me.

Doctor Janice