[Pivots] Rick Ackerman's "Hidden Pivots"

[Tasuki]

Hello all,
I just discovered a website by Rick Ackerman who has a trading method that looks interesting. Maybe not interesting enough to shell out $990 to get all the details, but worthwhile enough to check out the free stuff.

He's got a free video at this address which gives a teaser of what he does:
http://www.rickackerman.com/video/

Here's what I've been able to figure out so far:
His basic trading setup is the AB=CD pattern which is so familiar to most folks. However, he seems to have some interesting twists to it.

His AB leg (which he calls the "impulse leg") has to exceed at least two prior pivots---an "internal" pivot which is a pivot prior to the pivot A in which price is going in the same direction as the AB leg, and an "external" pivot, which is a prior pivot to the pivot A in which price is headed in the opposite direction from the AB leg. I'm guessing he has some rules for how you pick those pivots. He then waits for the BC pullback, and he enters as the CD leg is starting to form. No doubt he also has rules for how to enter the CD leg.

Something he does that's tricky is he chooses what he calls "subtle" impulse legs. They're "camouflaged", meaning that you wouldn't necessarily think of them as the beginning of tradable moves, and this is what gives him an advantage, so he says--because he's entering the market at trade locations that don't look attractive to the majority of traders (his examples do seem to bear out his belief). The key, I'm guessing, is in the strict rules he applies to these impulse legs--they have to exceed at least two prior pivots, an internal and an external.

Another key feature that must be part of his system is a strict set of rules for choosing your C pivot, because his examples show that he is entering the market very soon after that C pivot forms, so he has to know very precisely when he's got a true C pivot and not just some random wash and rinse in the market.

The thing I like about his method is that it is based strictly on price action, and therefore doesn't get in the way of any other method that you care to apply over top of it, such as VSA, or pitchforks, or indicators, or whathaveyou.

My plan is just to study these impulse legs that he describes and see if I can find them in real time, and in time enough to trade them.

If anyone has any further insight into Rick's methods, or has actually taken his course, any and all comments would be most welcome.

I've posted a few charts to show his method the best I can, given the fact that I'm trying to smoke it out of his free material. Probably not fair to him, but maybe useful to some of you. I hope.

Cheers, Tasuki

[DugDug]

Originally Posted by Tasuki Hello all, he says--because he's entering the market at trade locations that don't look attractive to the majority of traders (his examples do seem to bear out his belief). The key, I'm guessing, is in the strict rules he applies to these impulse legs--they have to exceed at least two prior pivots, an internal and an external.

To me it looks interesting only from the point of view that its where a lot of other people may not be looking.
However it seems to me to be a combination of a few other ideas - buying a break of an ABC/ross hook in the 5th wave using elliot wave theory. ie; waiting for a pullback, then going with a continuation pattern of the main trend after that pullback.

Unless it has a really really high percentage of winners it seems to me that its not a strategy that leads to running positions. (which is were the best money is made)
Given it requires "strict rules" then I figure there are better ideas around that I would prefer to apply strict and uncomplicated rules on.

But if it works for others - good luck to them.

[Tasuki]

Originally Posted by DugDug To me it looks interesting only from the point of view that its where a lot of other people may not be looking. However it seems to me to be a combination of a few other ideas - buying a break of an ABC/ross hook in the 5th wave using elliot wave theory. ie; waiting for a pullback, then going with a continuation pattern of the main trend after that pullback. Unless it has a really really high percentage of winners it seems to me that its not a strategy that leads to running positions. (which is were the best money is made) Given it requires "strict rules" then I figure there are better ideas around that I would prefer to apply strict and uncomplicated rules on. But if it works for others - good luck to them.

Actually, in fairness to this guy Rick, the "strict rules" was my assumption, I just can't see how he would avoid alot of losers unless he was extremely careful with his entries.

As far as a strategy that leads to runners, I'm not sure how Rick would treat his methodology, but I know what I would do---take partial profits at the point D target and let a portion run. In this way, the strategy could indeed be successful in catching the big wins.

Attached is a chart of SSRI weekly. I was able to glean this tidbit from the free video---if price gets to the halfway point of the projected CD leg, and falls back (rather than motoring right through to the D target), then Rick predicts that the price will ultimately fail to reach the D target by the exact same amount as it fell back when it reached this midpoint. That's actualy kind of cool, and useful as well. For swing trading, as you would likely be doing with a weekly chart, this can be quite a powerful technique.

[SunTrader]

Originally Posted by Tasuki Hello all, I just discovered a website by Rick Ackerman who has a trading method that looks interesting ...........

His approach IMO seems more complicated than it has to be.

This is all looking back in hindsight but on first chart the trading day of 12/2/08 followed a huge 80 point drop on 12/1/08. I would not be looking to go long - even if the expected bounce happened - as it did, not once but twice @ 10am est and again @ 230pm est.

I don't remember how I traded it that day, more than year ago, but looking at it now can see clearly where the point to go short (my preference) was:

[Tasuki]

Originally Posted by SunTrader His approach IMO seems more complicated than it has to be. This is all looking back in hindsight but on first chart the trading day of 12/2/08 followed a huge 80 point drop on 12/1/08. I would not be looking to go long - even if the expected bounce happened - as it did, not once but twice @ 10am est and again @ 230pm est. I don't remember how I traded it that day, more than year ago, but looking at it now can see clearly where the point to go short (my preference) was:

It feels a bit weird analyzing charts from 2008, but the attached chart shows where Rick got long on that day in December 2008. You're right, Suntrader, not the greatest possible trade of the day, but it would have been a nice winner, nonetheless.

[Tasuki]

Originally Posted by Rick A Thank you for bringing the Hidden Pivot Method to the attention of this group, Tasuki. I offer a six-hour webinar each month to those who want to learn my system.

Hi Rick, glad you joined Traders Lab, and many thanks for the clarifications of your methodology. I know you're new here, having joined yesterday, but just a word of caution---the founder of TL doesn't tolerate any self-advertising whatsoever (even when it would be useful, as in your post). The rationale is that otherwise the forums would be overrun with people selling courses. Pretty much the only thing that seems to be OK is mentioning a website where members can go for further info if they're so inclined.

What would be helpful, and completely OK, would be posting a few charts of your setups to show where you would enter and exit, and why. Then if people like what they see, they can find your course if they're interested. I've been particularly tuned into your gold forecasts, which have been really excellent, from what I've seen. I'm sure lots of members on TL would like to hear what you have to say about gold. Maybe we could entice you to start a thread on the forums to discuss gold's prospects? Just a suggestion.

Tasuki

[thalestrader]

You got to wonder about a guy who comes out asking for a grand in his very first post.

Best Wishes,

Thales

[Tasuki]

Originally Posted by thalestrader You got to wonder about a guy who comes out asking for a grand in his very first post. Best Wishes, Thales

Thales, I know what you mean, but I think that was due to his inexperience with our forum. We'll see if he responds with anything more substantive.
Tasuki

[Rick A]

I have responded as appropriate, Tasuki, including to a post by Thales that was personally insulting, but your moderator apparently has censored all of my responses. Sayonara.

[thalestrader]

Originally Posted by Rick A I have responded as appropriate... including to a post by Thales that was personally insulting,....

You used your inaugural post to a free forum to make mention of the fact that for just $995 you will teach others to to as you do, and you're insulted?

And then your next post is to cry about having been insulted because of the content of your first post?

For the record, your first post was fine up to the point where you decided advertise your services.

Just once I'd like to see someone who has broken with the accepted practices here within the TL community, whether or not it was intended, to apologize for the transgression. Instead we get one guy telling us that we should "calm down" and another guy crying that he's been insulted.

-Thales