First Post, New Trader, Help Wanted!

[NickTW]

Hello!

First of all, love the site. Seems like an incredible source of information and insight.

I'm looking to start trading, but hope to glean some insight and advice before I jump in head first. The reading has already begun - Trading in the Zone, Mind over Markets, Candlestick charting, etc. My biggest dilemma right now is the following:

1) I work full time on a taxable bond trading desk, ~50 hours a week, usually 6:30 AM - 4:30 pm M-F. I do not want my interest in trading to impact my productivity at work, but I do think the access to a bloomberg terminal will be beneficial. Is there a beginner-friendly market that I can trade before or after work hours without handicapping myself? If so, where's the best place to practice paper-trading this market, and what reading material would you suggest?

Thank you in advance for any responses, and thanks to Soultrader for creating such a great resource for aspiring traders!

[mister ed]

Hello Nick and welcome.

I don't know how much this is going to help...you are in Dallas and finish work at 4pm, so the after work option is going to be Asian markets (Tokyo open is about 4 hours or so after you finish work, I will leave you figure out the exact times) or the night sessions of the US and Europe markets. The FX markets are of course 24 hours, but even so the 4 to 5 hours after 4pm in Dallas are, generally, the lowest volume time of the 24 hours period.

The before-work option will give you more choice of larger, deeper markets, starting 4-5 or so hours earlier you would see the opening of the European markets and the opening of the European session of FX. As to how beginner friendly these are ... well ... trading physical stocks would be classified as a bit more beginner friendly than say the DAX futures. I am sure others more familiar with these markets will have better views.

[Sparrow]

Couldn't have said it better mister ed
The asian session in FX usually isn't worth trading, AUD and JPY have the most acceptable spreads and move a bit during that time. There are exceptional days but volatility is very low most of the time.
European markets should offer better opportunities for you, unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with asian futures/stocks to make any recommendations.

[torero]

the NZD/USD and AUD/USD have tight spread (1-2 pip for NZD and 2-3 for AUD). The moves are decent from their session I think.

[lrushing]

Hello Nick,

A small word of advice would be to initially focus on considering a different style of trading (i.e., swing trading or position trading) because the natural course of day trading requires a significant amount of dedication, commitment and time.

Based on your available schedule, you can learn to trade one style and gain some success and experience and then migrate your success, hopefully with profits to a different style (i.e., more active day/scalp trading) as your schedule and lifestyle permits.

Trying to day trade with other demanding responsibilities could/will lead to some bad habits and unnecessary experiences no matter what markets you trade before or after hours. Professional and experienced traders know that distractions can/will impact your trading psychology and results.

[Trvlwanderer]

Maybe a direction to head would be chart patterns on a longer time frame. Maybe 5 day swings to 30 day positions. Trade entry would be small so stops and targets would have a chance to pan out without sweating during the day.

Take a look at Bulkowski's (sp?) work on chart stats. Might be an opportunity to build a system that is flexible around your schedule.

Caveat would be the current conditions of the market in stocks. FED, news, etc. make it more difficult at this time....but what is new?

FOREX paper trading small lots would also be a good ground for testing systems before leveraging in at 200:1.

[NickTW]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. I've got to be honest - like the idea of testing the waters in swing/position trading more than waking up at ~3am every morning. Did a little research on Bulkowski - quite a few books by this guy, any you recommend to start with?

Also a few more questions:

1) What kind of starting capital would you recommend for this kind of trading? Fewer trades per week would seem to lessen the pain from commissions, but I assume you're going to have to trade larger positions with less leverage.

2) Any recommended reading specifically on this style of trading?

3) Until I jump in and do this with real money, any platforms you recommend for paper trading realistically?

4) I have an account with optionsXpress right now, and because I'm an employee of a FINRA member firm, I can't get real time quotes (15 minute delay). Will this be the case everywhere? Seems kind of silly.

Thanks in advance for any responses, sorry for all the questions!

[smwinc]

Hello Nick,

Nice to see someone wants to actually do a little work for a change.

The problem with looking for a longer-term trading approach, is you are greatly reducing your frequency at which will learn at. Let me explain:

3 brand new traders, trade for a year:

1. Tries day trading. 20 trades a day x 250 trading days = 5000 opportunities to learn.
2. Tries EOD trading. 1 trade a day x 250 trading days = 250 opportunities to learn.
3. Tries Position trading. 1 trade a week x 50 trading weeks = 50 opportunities to learn.

Statistically it takes around 10 years to master a pursuit. The best way to speed it up is to increase your sampling rate.

At the trading firm I work at, the emphasis is just to get new traders trading, on a simulator, as much as possible. Hundreds of trades a day, every day. Developing a feel for the market. Understanding price action. Simply trying anything that comes to mind.

Mentally, you are constantly performing 'accept/reject' strategies in your head.

I would suggest to focus on day-trading ONE market outside of work hours. Because you are limited for time, you are going to need to 'compress' as much as possible.

Dr Brett Steenbarger runs a high quality blog - here is a link to a post with regards to 'practice trading' market data.

"Replaying the Trading Day: A Best Practice in Trading"
http://traderfeed.blogspot.com/2007/...actice-in.html

Hope it helps.

[NickTW]

Thanks for the post smw - seems like a really valid point. I noticed in the link you gave that Bonnie mentions that ensign allows you to replay trading days. Maybe that'd allow a bit of a hybrid approach for my current situation - swing trading with real money to work on money management/psychological aspects, and replay parts of a random trading day to get the repetition and practice in the evenings. I'm assuming the strategies used by day traders are similar to swing-trading, just on a different time frame - can anyone confirm/deny that assumption?

[DbPhoenix]

	Quote:	NickTW
	Hello! First of all, love the site. Seems like an incredible source of information and insight. I'm looking to start trading, but hope to glean some insight and advice before I jump in head first. The reading has already begun - Trading in the Zone, Mind over Markets, Candlestick charting, etc. My biggest dilemma right now is the following: 1) I work full time on a taxable bond trading desk, ~50 hours a week, usually 6:30 AM - 4:30 pm M-F. I do not want my interest in trading to impact my productivity at work, but I do think the access to a bloomberg terminal will be beneficial. Is there a beginner-friendly market that I can trade before or after work hours without handicapping myself? If so, where's the best place to practice paper-trading this market, and what reading material would you suggest? Thank you in advance for any responses, and thanks to Soultrader for creating such a great resource for aspiring traders!

After reading your initial question and the responses you've so far received, I'm still wondering why you're not trading something you know. Or are you not trading? What exactly do you mean by "work full time on a taxable bond trading desk"?