Big Dow?

[Soultrader]

Has anyone traded the Big Dow? The tick increments are 5 times the YM but is anyone familiar with the price movements of the BIG DOW?

[feb2865]

	Quote:	Soultrader
	Has anyone traded the Big Dow? The tick increments are 5 times the YM but is anyone familiar with the price movements of the BIG DOW?

I did trade the DOW some years ago

Nowadays, it usually (not always) move slower than futures. New money are comming into futures especially e-mini's I used to track them(DOW/SPX) against other instruments. Like for instance, If futures were moving but DOW/SPX were quiet, usually that movement won't last. It can be used the other way around.

Still have them on my charts, but I include them on my sector's list. I prefer to track them by price better than charts.

As to trade them, well if you have the money. Personally I don't recomend it.

A friend of mine told me about 2 years ago that futures and e-mini's are the "future" Now I think he's rigth

Still, the "big boys" pour insane amounts of money into the DOW/SPX

Only time will tell.

Raul

[Soultrader]

Thanks Raul. Very interesting, I treated the ES when trading the YM just like you treat the DOW. This will be a new addition on my scanner and will see how handy it will be.

Is liquidiy still low on the DOW?

	Quote:
	A friend of mine told me about 2 years ago that futures and e-mini's are the "future" Now I think he's rigth

I completely agree with this comment. Since I trade futures mainly, I can never go back to trading stocks. I feel like futures is the only fair playing field for traders like myself.

[feb2865]

	Quote:	Soultrader
	Thanks Raul. Very interesting, I treated the ES when trading the YM just like you treat the DOW. This will be a new addition on my scanner and will see how handy it will be. Is liquidiy still low on the DOW? I completely agree with this comment. Since I trade futures mainly, I can never go back to trading stocks. I feel like futures is the only fair playing field for traders like myself.

Trading the big DOW is kinda tricky, well at least back in 93-95 Voulme used to be somehow erratic. Used to be a safe-haven for fund managers to cover their cash. Back in the day of stock's daytrading golden era (90's) the dow was mainly used as a tracking device. Speculators never looked at the dow as a daytrading vehicle and I don't think that has changed. I traded the DOW via Datek in 1997 and I got screwed couple of times due lack of fill

As I said, I still have use for it and to me still is a wondeful way to track the market. Besides, is probably the most watched index as everybody is waiting to break 12,000.

I have the big dow as part of my sectors. I also noticed not too long ago that Dow trasnport ($TRANS) moves faster than the DOW but not as fast as the futures. I hav no idea as to why but I've been trackin them for some time now and it happens very often. I have it on my sectors too.

James, I will suggest to keep an eye on the S&P retail index ($rlx) has been putting some buying pressure on the market lately. New money is coming to this sector, fueled by the decrease of crude oil pirces, therefore consumers has this extra-money (new money) to spend. Yesterday RLX went up as high as 3:50%

Raul

[Soultrader]

I thought the BIG DOW futures is relatively new?

The Dow has been definitely the index to watch breaking above key resistance points and now testing the critical 12000 mark. Technically I am still bullish with the Dow.

Watching the $RLX makes alot of sense now... I always had trouble identifying which sector money was flowing into and which index to watch. I usually watch the bank/brokerage indexes as well as crude and gold. Will add $RLX to my scanner.

Thanks for the info Raul. What have you been trading lately? From what I recall you also trade the futs?

[feb2865]

I've been in love with crude oil for some time now. To me, crude oil works good on the pivot play as well S/R, but more on pivots. Sometimes I trade silver and gold. T-Bills 30yr I look at them from time to time. I also trade ES. I am looking to trade YM or at least watch it from next week on. Seems like ES moves a little faster sometimes don't you think? Sorry I was talking about DJIA is that we used to call it the BIG DOW back in the day. Dow futures is fairly new.

Tracking YM and ES is a good idea. I am definitely going to incorporate that on my trading

Raul

[Soultrader]

	Quote:	feb2865
	I've been in love with crude oil for some time now. To me, crude oil works good on the pivot play as well S/R, but more on pivots. Sometimes I trade silver and gold. T-Bills 30yr I look at them from time to time. I also trade ES. I am looking to trade YM or at least watch it from next week on. Seems like ES moves a little faster sometimes don't you think? Sorry I was talking about DJIA is that we used to call it the BIG DOW back in the day. Dow futures is fairly new. Tracking YM and ES is a good idea. I am definitely going to incorporate that on my trading Raul

Im looking forward to trading crude in the future. I think Im going to stick with futures for some time... just never was attracted to stocks or Forex. The ES does indeed lead the YM but a few seconds. Not always but fairly common. For example, when the YM is testing the low but the ES has broken its low... I will anticipate a break in the YM as well. For YM traders this is a small edge.

I was completely mistaken with the futs not the cash. Im the new breed in day trading so I still need to catch up with the lingo

[feb2865]

	Quote:	Soultrader
	Im looking forward to trading crude in the future. I think Im going to stick with futures for some time... just never was attracted to stocks or Forex. The ES does indeed lead the YM but a few seconds. Not always but fairly common. For example, when the YM is testing the low but the ES has broken its low... I will anticipate a break in the YM as well. For YM traders this is a small edge. I was completely mistaken with the futs not the cash. Im the new breed in day trading so I still need to catch up with the lingo

Seems like energy sectors in general are hot nowadays. Crude oil mini's has $500.00 per contract/per dollar movement P/L. I've been trading Crude since it start falling from $76.00 (not swing just in-out - intraday)

I think energy sectors are just the flavor of the moment and sooner or later oil(who's leading the pack) is going to start a long period of consolidation once it settles on a fair price. It's been part of a cycle.

Something like MSFT in the 90's Traders and investors were dumping funds in Microsoft like chickens with the heads cut-off and the the infamous "antitrust case" came into play. Not only they lost a lotta money but a new cycle began in the Mircosoft history(Equity-related).

All equity markets, including Forex, runs in cycles.

When a new cycle begins, there's a shift between new and old participants in the market. It's a good time to review you strategy/system/method and be on the lookout of market behavior (this is the main reason why indicators are useless in my opinion) hope it makes sense.

It's good to play cycles but you better have the foot on the brake.

I can make this whole post about market cycle but let's get back the Dow

Traders/investors/ CNBC/ The Boy Scouts of America/The Undertakers Anonymous Society/Barney/Hilary Duff...everybody was waiting for the DOW to break the 12k range on Friday....yes this past Friday. Didn't happen...why??

Very simple ....Oil went up and retail went down...these two animals are putting a lotta weigth in the market recently

Keep an eye on them.

My morning routine for years has been looking at the sectors and the dow (quote boards) before anything in the morning. Is the first thing I do. If the dow is down/up but sectors are mixed, that's a warning sign. Especially if is bewteen 10:00-11:00AM. Not trading on days like this, keep me out of the "choppy monster" very often

Sometimes I look for any gaps - to fill(on choppy days) and maybe I go on and put a trade, but is on a case-by-case basis


As to the YM - I have a confession to make. I never put any weigth on. I watched ocasionally the YM tracking the ES but that's it. Please correct me if I am wrong (maybe I read it somewhere else) but you have a post comparing ES vs YM and the value on axis advantage the YM represents, other than is $5.00 per point vs $12.50 per tick. I am going to look into that very closely.

Thanks


Raul

[Soultrader]

	Quote:	feb2865
	All equity markets, including Forex, runs in cycles. When a new cycle begins, there's a shift between new and old participants in the market. It's a good time to review you strategy/system/method and be on the lookout of market behavior (this is the main reason why indicators are useless in my opinion) hope it makes sense. It's good to play cycles but you better have the foot on the brake. I can make this whole post about market cycle but let's get back the Dow Traders/investors/ CNBC/ The Boy Scouts of America/The Undertakers Anonymous Society/Barney/Hilary Duff...everybody was waiting for the DOW to break the 12k range on Friday....yes this past Friday. Didn't happen...why?? Very simple ....Oil went up and retail went down...these two animals are putting a lotta weigth in the market recently Keep an eye on them.

One of the things I am working on right now is to have a better understanding of money flow and sector strength analysis. Your comments are going to save me alot of money. Thank you Raul.

Ive been a big fan of John Murphy's work with intermarket anaylsis but always felt that past cycles are not repetitive. With new technology and the ever changing supply and demand of natural resources, I feel there is always some new sector that I need to be updated on. Still trying to understand this better.

Your comments on crude and the retail sector adding weight to the markets inspired me on a new breakout/breakout failure strategy. This information will add further confirmation on S&R/market profile strategies that I currently use.

I highly doubt the YM will ever become a "popular" contract. I dont think its necessary to apply too much weight on it either. The ES usually leads the YM.... and its rare to see the YM lead the ES.

I use a similar analysis method by watching my scanner. I have about 80+ sectors, futures, and stocks that I place on my scanner and anytime I see mixed signals of green and red, this is a warning sign. Hence, I try to apply a rangebound strategy and aim for singles and not homeruns. I also like to analyze overnight action as well as any pre-market volume on the SSF's. The opening play is probably my most profitable and favorite setup. The opening price can act as the dead low/high for the day and offers an excellent entry point.

And yes.. indicators are useless. Im always shocked to see new traders being in love with them and asking indicator questions. They are asking the wrong questions without even knowing it.

Regards,

James Lee

[wsam29]

3 tick spread so the cost of getting in and out at the market will be $75, much like the SP (pit traded)

There is a good chance the best bid will be lower than the YM bid and the offer will be higher than the YM offer.

example

DD 12000 bid 12003 offer
YM 12001 bid 12002 offer

The products are fundgible, or something like that so I think you can offset a DD position with YM contracts, but you need 5 YM's to offset the 1 DD when your position is cleared at the end of the trading day.

I tried trading the DD when it first came out, just too my cues off the YM but just over coming that 3 tick spread is tough and you need to get out when you see better bid/offer.