Ready to take this on full time?

[JayRemy]

Hi Guys,

How do I know if I can make trading my full time job?

Thats essentially my question!

Ok, a friend told me about trading a couple months ago (just after world cup), I know this is no time at all to have built any kind of experience but here goes. He told me about trading the YM open using an ADX indicator (basically wait till adx reached 40 and drops 5 then enter reversal trade). From, there I lost half my account. I wised up and started researching myself - i found this site and studied everything I could about the ym, pivots, fading, ticks everything - I'm on route through a stack of books very kindly recommended by people from this forum.

I have the theory pretty well worked out, if i dont have any information about something i'm damn sure i can find it out from books i have already read, internet resources etc.

I understand the pshycology of the business too, from playing poker for several years I am very familiar with "going on tilt", chasing losses etc. in fact I keep a trade diary which has no monetary value in it - only points.

I am a programmer by trade and believe i am very methodical and analytical by nature. Being in the software industry - my head has been in books ever since i was able to read, although i havent read fiction since school!

I'm not neccessarily asking you if I should take the plunge but more so, how does ANYONE know when to go fulltime.

After reading this back to myself - it sounds like a rant but hey! It would be good to hear if any of you guys have comments.

Oh, finally - I'm in profit ! - surely thats a good sign!

(Edit - Posting this thread gave me a gold star under my name - it's a sign )

Cheers Guys

[TinGull]

Well, I spent a year trading options before I went at it full time, and at that point I had a stash of cash that I could do it with, and my partner still works her job, so we have some income coming in while the account grows and my confidence in my system grows. I wouldn't go full time if I didn't have 6-12 months living expenses stashed away and I was living alone. Fortunately I had enough for myself and with my partner working...it's all golden. I can do it at my leisure with the eMinis.

So...I was scared S-less quitting my cushy job selling music gear. BUT, it was the best thing I ever did. I hate corporate america (corporate anything I guess, since most of this forum seems to be out of country) more than anything and am glad to be on my own. It can get tough, eating less than I normally would or whatever, but I wouldn't trade it for the world.

Hope that helps, though, I don't know if it does....

[torero]

I say you have to find out how consistent you and your system are before taking the plunge. I paper traded for 1 full year before taking real trades then I went semi-fulltime. But consistency is a very tricky state, because you really don´t know how consistent you are until you feel it´s not about the money you´re raking in but it's the fact you know you can come back, you know your system so well when and where its success and failure lies and how confident you are in exploiting it to the limit when necessary. When it's not about the money is when you might be ready.

I say give it more time just to make sure the system you have is one that can deal with different conditions and still stay ahead.

Good luck, Jay.

[JayRemy]

Thanks guys, it was worth posting this thread, for the reason that it is a goal of mine to be able to do this as a career. However, I dont want to rush into anything and blow my account, spending the next 6 months trying to fund another account.

So, it's goals I need. I like the idea very much of making 6-12 months stash of cash equivalent to my current salary. This will give me time to experience the markets with also having a "light at the end of the tunnel". - Thank you TinGull.

	Quote:	TinGull
	I wouldn't go full time if I didn't have 6-12 months living expenses stashed away and I was living alone. Fortunately I had enough for myself and with my partner working...it's all golden.

Ah yes, consistency. It's very true from a couple wins one might get a sense of heroism, thinking himself invinsible and start overtrading. - I've lost so much money at poker like this, your account just yo-yo's. Although, I think I am very aware of this and am able to control my emotion. Only time and experience is the true indicator of this and with the light at the end of the tunnel i would rather make the mistakes while i have a job! - thank you Torero

	Quote:	torero
	I say you have to find out how consistent you and your system are before taking the plunge. I say give it more time just to make sure the system you have is one that can deal with different conditions and still stay ahead.

[Kiwi]

You might want to read through a couple of threads at elite trader and just see if they raise any questions for you. Like much at ET they get infected with strong opinions but looking at both sides may help clarify all your thinking. Best of luck with the shift.

Forums - Would you rather trade on your own making 100k yr or trade for a firm making 500k yr
Forums - Mental break-down from TA

[namstrader]

take a look at this site for a daily message that is informative and useful.

http://www.innerworth.com/daily/iwDaily.asp

Several years ago when I was laid off from the investment management area as a level II CFA stock analyst/portfolio administrator, and found it impossible to reenter, I knew that becoming a trader was what I truly wanted to do and no turning back. I just need the experience and I am not looking for any short cuts. I am working with scared money right now, but with faith and belief mixed with hard work and love of this way of life, making a living will happen. Risk finding out you can do it.

[MrPaul]

This is a good read...

Sacrifices of a full-time trader
Filed under: Uncategorized � Caravaggio @ 1:26 pm

Many individuals who hold down a full-time job and trade the markets in their spare time, harbour the desire to trade on full-time basis. It is a very enticing proposition. Over and above your trading record and the reliability of your trading approach, I think it is important to consider the significant sacrifices involved in making the transition:

* Security of full-time employment: Perhaps even more important than the absolute level of income is the fact that an income stream from an employer is usually stable. This regular paycheck stream can be matched up against routine expenses like food, rent, etc and in most cases, will leave you with a little spare change for your long-term savings account. A full-time trader either needs to have an asset that generates enough cash to make these routine payments - bear in mind that a £100,000 asset will be lucky to generate to 5% pa (£5000) after tax - or they are in a forced position of having to try to generate the cash from the their trading accounts (welcome to my world).
* Income growth: Most people’s pay-packets will grow by an amount that beats inflation, and will often be supplemented with end of year bonuses.
* Realistic expectations and your bank roll: The very best hedge funds (eg: Quantum, SAC, Citadel) consistently make or have made around 20-30% pa. They have the very best minds working for them, will often throw money at technology, and usually have decades of experience. If you set your aims in this context (ie at a more modest level), it becomes obvious that a substantial bank roll to required to make a decent living from your trading activities. A reasonable minimum level for a rational investor would probably be around £100,000 (plus the asset required to generate a regular income stream). This is what I think is required to stand a reasonable chance of success. It may also explain help to explain why so many traders fail at the retail level; they just don’t have the resources to take a measured approach.
* Acknowledgement and interaction with peers: We are social animals and unless you are operating from a trading arcade, trading can be a very isolated activity. This is not natural and can be get quite depressing over time. In the workplace you can bounce ideas of other people and you get feedback on your efforts. In most cases, your presence is appreciated. In trading, however, your sense of self-worth has to come from within.
* Other perks of the pay-check: These include things like health cover, insurances, and pension contributions from your employer and paid holidays.

I hope these points underscore the idea that making the decision to become a full-time trader is not a decision to be taken lightly.

As a trader, I believe my objectives are noble, but I’ll confess that I glossed over these sacrifices when I made the decision to start trading on a full-time basis. That was my first bad trade.

http://the3500.wordpress.com/tag/uncategorized/

[pipMonster]

Hi Jay and others reading this thread,

I'm not trading full time nor is it my sole source of income.

What I can say from the experience of previously quitting a secure job, though one without much future, to go freelance in an entirely different field of work requires a certain mind set in addition to the support of your family/significant other.

In order to trade for a living you need to be very comfortable in risking your neck to achieve your dream. I did this ten years ago when switching careers of my own choice. I was not forced out in any way.

A trader would need the confidence to 'walk the walk'. By this I mean the belief they can generate the needed income from trading to not touch the 'back up living expenses'. This means total confidence in your strategy of trading that it will, if applied correctly and consistantly, generate the needed income. I would say a trader needs 6-9 months of expenses in the bank as back up. This trader would need to cut existing expenses to the bare minimum and then add 'goodies' to your lifestyle as rewards for good trading. The trader would 'do' not 'try'. This is a business. You need a passion for it, but also a detachment to look at your trading scenario and ask "What would I recommend another trader to do in this situation? Enter, exit, stay flat, pare down, add in, etc.,?

Can you see yourself paying for your child(ren)'s university costs by trading? How about your mortgage? How about your food? Health insurance?

If you have the confidence, I mean realistic confidence not the "I'm sure taking a big chance here I hope I can do this" kind of false confidence, then you may very well be able to trade for a living.

[Soultrader]

Some very good points there Pipmonster. Trading is a complete mental game and one needs to be in the right mindset everyday. It's hard for new traders to grasp this mindset.

I want to share my style of making it in this business. Its a style I have picked up from poker which I spent several years living of it as a sole income. Trading and poker... is a grind. All that "Pit Bull" cowboy type stories are just entertainment to me. Each day I grind my way to make an income. I don't try to aim at homeruns or winning the WSOP. I care less.... all I care about is taking money on a consistent basis. It's worked for me my entire trading and poker career. I'm in it for the long haul.... and I dont want any one hand to take me of this game.

[pipMonster]

Consistantcy is the key which is where the mental toughness comes in.

It's interesting how lots of folks, especially new traders think trading currencies is the easy way to riches. It's hard work. Everyday.

I was just reading an article this past weekend about making a record with John Lennon called 'Mind Games'. The gist of what I'm trying to relate is the sound engineer thought it was going to be 'easy' work with one of the creative forces from the Beatles. Lennon will just show up with a bunch of songs ready to go. What he found out was that Lennon, and others like him, work really hard on getting a song as good as they can make it. Take after take.

Trading is like that. It's hard work, but it can be very rewarding.